Poll: What's worse? Forced stealth or escort missions?
- Thread starter Sieg Firebrand
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Escort missions. I don't like forced stealth in games not stealth oriented, but escort missions are always bad. I hate the ones in open-world games where they choose the worst possible route, you can see a roadblock a hundred yards out but grandma shuffles toward it instead of taking a detour before you kill all the muggers.
Actually, they do care where they go. Invariably if an escorted group have the choice between going to the goal via lollipop street or going via bastard cannibal mutant avenue they will choose the latter.Mr.Petey said:
I've played some games where the forced stealth section is the best bit of the entire thing. Not to mention stealth is a genre that's lacking for games somewhat, I'll take it where ever I can get it.
Escort mission? Urgh! It better be short or they better be useful and have an silly amount of health. No one likes escort missions. NO ONE.
Escort mission? Urgh! It better be short or they better be useful and have an silly amount of health. No one likes escort missions. NO ONE.
escort missions,( which is curious since the last escort-y bit i remember off had is the one in Bayonetta, an that was pretty easy)
though I've ended up on more forced stealth sections, they don't seem to bother my as much for what ever reason, as guiding some moron from A to B.
only time i find escorting some one ok is if i can have them hold position while i go to 'purge the filth'
then its good
though I've ended up on more forced stealth sections, they don't seem to bother my as much for what ever reason, as guiding some moron from A to B.
only time i find escorting some one ok is if i can have them hold position while i go to 'purge the filth'
then its good
I agree.mikecoulter said:
Escort is what breaks a game, but The OP has a point.
Example why the hell do we have a stealth mission in a samurai game!? (The game is called way of the samurai for the PS2, it had a truly horrible stealth misson)
Unless the people we Escorting has unlimted ammo, then it's good.
I hate escort missions. But Sly Cooper games, did them best. You shoot the obstacles and enemies that could cause harm and then the hippo guy moves forward. It was kind of like a reversal of that snow base mission in CODMW2. Also, I think Dead Rising did it worse. Not only do those fools not fight the zombies but when they have an option between running through the path I just cleared for them or taking the longer route through the zombie horde they always ran straight through the zombie horde. Frustrated me to no end and ruined the ENTIRE game for me. On the subject of stealth missions, why is it that some games do not allow stealth? For example, if I'm sneaking around and eliminate a foe via a knife hidden from view from ALL other foes or a sniper shot (the sniper mission from CODMW). I'm so far away!!! Exactly how did they know the exact location of my hide? Doesn't make sense!!!BlackStar42 said:
Escort Missions.
Forced stealths only have one goal: DON'T GET CAUGHT!!
Forced escorts on the other hand: DONT GET THE VIP KILLED, DON'T STRAY TOO FAR FROM THE VIP, MAKE SURE TO TAKE DAMAGE FOR THE VIP, SPARE RESOURCES FOR THE VIP, CONSIDER THE PATH THE VIP IS TAKING. All while trying to KEEP YOURSELF ALIVE.
It's like those rescue missions on CS:S where clan rules force you to ACTUALLY save the VIPs or else. Or like that rescue level that Yahtzee mentioned on ZP:Halo Wars...
BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!
Forced stealths only have one goal: DON'T GET CAUGHT!!
Forced escorts on the other hand: DONT GET THE VIP KILLED, DON'T STRAY TOO FAR FROM THE VIP, MAKE SURE TO TAKE DAMAGE FOR THE VIP, SPARE RESOURCES FOR THE VIP, CONSIDER THE PATH THE VIP IS TAKING. All while trying to KEEP YOURSELF ALIVE.
It's like those rescue missions on CS:S where clan rules force you to ACTUALLY save the VIPs or else. Or like that rescue level that Yahtzee mentioned on ZP:Halo Wars...
BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!
There's only one escort mission that didn't completely annoy the crap out of me and that was the one in Bayonetta when you're trying to get Cereza off of the plane.
It was good because, every time I dropped Cereza, Bayonetta would automatically put a shield around her so I only had to move Cereza if she got hit one too many times and I needed to recharge the shield; otherwise it didn't interfere with the combat, it just gave me something else to concentrate on while I kicked angel ass.
Plus I was in full control of where Cereza was because I could put her wherever I wanted her and move her to somewhere else if that didn't work out. I think more escort missions should be like this, where the NPC does what you tell them to do or at least has enough sense to not get killed or at least fight for themselves like Eileen Galvin in Silent Hill 4, although give them something better than a riding crop, chain or a handbag. Just because she's a girl doesn't mean she can't handle a gun, Konami.
The one in Bioshock, though. Ugh, I couldn't count how many little sisters died because I couldn't reload fast enough.
It was good because, every time I dropped Cereza, Bayonetta would automatically put a shield around her so I only had to move Cereza if she got hit one too many times and I needed to recharge the shield; otherwise it didn't interfere with the combat, it just gave me something else to concentrate on while I kicked angel ass.
Plus I was in full control of where Cereza was because I could put her wherever I wanted her and move her to somewhere else if that didn't work out. I think more escort missions should be like this, where the NPC does what you tell them to do or at least has enough sense to not get killed or at least fight for themselves like Eileen Galvin in Silent Hill 4, although give them something better than a riding crop, chain or a handbag. Just because she's a girl doesn't mean she can't handle a gun, Konami.
The one in Bioshock, though. Ugh, I couldn't count how many little sisters died because I couldn't reload fast enough.
They're both pretty bad...
On one hand, "forced stealth" often entails use of stealth in a game that trains you to absolutely not use stealth and that has no real stealth systems to speak of, often leading to immense frustration on the user's part as they find themselves transported into a different game than they want to be playing. It's a glaring, lazy inconsistency in the design that often falls prey to logical problems. For instance: why do I have to sneak through that gate? Why can't I just murder all the guards and run through, like I do everywhere else? Why don't I just cast my fire spell and BURN the thing down? It wouldn't be such a glaring problem if there WERE stealth systems and the game didn't massively penalize you for taking out unsuspecting guards, but often times this alerts everyone in the area to your presence in such a game. It's kind of insulting, actually.
On the other hand, escort missions are universally painful. You don't get to make any decisions and you have to protect something that generally has no gameplay value to speak of, possibly negative gameplay value as it entails a second lose condition. It's a great big burden on the player that precludes many methods of problem-solving they might otherwise adopt for a particular situation, sometimes narrowing it down to exactly one correct routine.
... You know what?
On one hand, "forced stealth" often entails use of stealth in a game that trains you to absolutely not use stealth and that has no real stealth systems to speak of, often leading to immense frustration on the user's part as they find themselves transported into a different game than they want to be playing. It's a glaring, lazy inconsistency in the design that often falls prey to logical problems. For instance: why do I have to sneak through that gate? Why can't I just murder all the guards and run through, like I do everywhere else? Why don't I just cast my fire spell and BURN the thing down? It wouldn't be such a glaring problem if there WERE stealth systems and the game didn't massively penalize you for taking out unsuspecting guards, but often times this alerts everyone in the area to your presence in such a game. It's kind of insulting, actually.
On the other hand, escort missions are universally painful. You don't get to make any decisions and you have to protect something that generally has no gameplay value to speak of, possibly negative gameplay value as it entails a second lose condition. It's a great big burden on the player that precludes many methods of problem-solving they might otherwise adopt for a particular situation, sometimes narrowing it down to exactly one correct routine.
... You know what?
... This. This actually sums it up really, really, well. That's an absurd number of constraints. I think it's the escort missions that win out.razormint21 said:
I like Escort jobs. It's easy money and some of my clients are pretty nice du...
Oh, escort missions! Y-yeah those...suck.
>.>
<.<
Oh, escort missions! Y-yeah those...suck.
>.>
<.<
Forced Stealth by FAR!
Games like Wind Waker (hell, even OoT), Rainbow Six (1-3, not the recent ones), Red Faction, No One Lives Forever, Jedi Knight II all have HORRIBLE forced stealth sections. I'd get stuck on them the longest because most of the time the game would punish you horribly for being seen.
I don't know what games the rest of you have been playing because only a few rare instances have escorting sucked. I can only think of 2 times off the top of my head (as the list above was too) Doom 3 with the flashlight gun bot, and the R4 droid in the JKII. The stealth section was WAY worse for me in JKII though.
Games like Wind Waker (hell, even OoT), Rainbow Six (1-3, not the recent ones), Red Faction, No One Lives Forever, Jedi Knight II all have HORRIBLE forced stealth sections. I'd get stuck on them the longest because most of the time the game would punish you horribly for being seen.
I don't know what games the rest of you have been playing because only a few rare instances have escorting sucked. I can only think of 2 times off the top of my head (as the list above was too) Doom 3 with the flashlight gun bot, and the R4 droid in the JKII. The stealth section was WAY worse for me in JKII though.
Escort missions...just...grrrr...they make me angry...I'm gonna go break someting...nothing to break!NOOOOOO!!!!
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that forced stealth sections, while a thousand times less common than escort missions as a gameplay element, are far worse and more frustrating.
Very few non-stealth games do anything other than ruin stealth, which is something that requires a deep level of realism to even work in a way that users will intuitively understand. In an unrealistic action game, these sections never amount to anything.
Meanwhile, you can spice up escort missions with new dialogue, sudden desperate action sequences, and/or sudden changes in the terrain on the way. Escort missions are only dull if you're escorting through a normal town or country area that doesn't do anything extra for the mission (I'm looking at you, GTAIV friend quests). So I think the hatred for them is mostly for the dull kind, and that's justified.
It's just too bad that we're ready to get rid of something without considering if it would be good if we made certain changes. I think it could, and that it's been done before.
Very few non-stealth games do anything other than ruin stealth, which is something that requires a deep level of realism to even work in a way that users will intuitively understand. In an unrealistic action game, these sections never amount to anything.
Meanwhile, you can spice up escort missions with new dialogue, sudden desperate action sequences, and/or sudden changes in the terrain on the way. Escort missions are only dull if you're escorting through a normal town or country area that doesn't do anything extra for the mission (I'm looking at you, GTAIV friend quests). So I think the hatred for them is mostly for the dull kind, and that's justified.
It's just too bad that we're ready to get rid of something without considering if it would be good if we made certain changes. I think it could, and that it's been done before.
