Poll: Which Bioware RPG to start with?

[dyre]

Out of Bioware's games, I have played Mass effect 1 and a bit of the sequel, Kotor 1 and 2, Dragon age: Origins and Baldur's gate 2 about half-way through.
I'd say Mass effect is the best choice as first game, simply becuase it is the most user-friendly. Sure, much of the combat boils down to little more then click-at-target-to-kill, but the story is what really drives the game.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Whatever everyone else tells you; Don't. Play. Baldur's gate. As. Your. First. Bioware. Game!!!!!
Yeah, yeah, it's a great one and all, but it is also one of the least accessible games you are ever going to find becuase the mechanics of the game is so insanely illogical. For example, in order to have as good armor as possible, your armor stats is supposed to be as LOW as possible. What on earth is up with that??

Ugh, armor class was always the lower the better, until the more recent editions. New to d&d ? If so, it's not some insane concept to try and grasp. LOL

Wow, have games gotten so mindless that Baldurs is now looked as as this incredibly complex rpg ? LOL

As far as I know, most people play 3.5 or 4.0, so it's not like one would expect AC to be a lower-the-better sort of thing.

And it's not that games have become "mindless;" it's that game mechanics are different now. People worry more about timing their spells than the number they have per day. Fast paced, real-time combat means more emphasis on reflexes than numbers for AC. There's no need to be so pretentious about it.

That's why i like the traditional rpgs. Fully turn based combat, like Temple of Elemental is even better. More strategic and thoughtful, like a game of chess. And more true to real d&d. They obviously dumbed they're games down to appeal to more ppl who don't have the patience for real rpgs and learning everything about them. To me, that's part of the fun, figuring out the game.

Eh, Temple of Elemental Evil is pretty boring. It's like D&D without the roleplaying. Just...numbers. D&D shouldn't just be about strategy...play a turn based strategy game if you want that. It's about playing a role in a story in which you can make major choices that decide both your personality and the fate of the world around you. So I don't consider making gameplay simpler to really be a problem or "stupid." It's just necessary for a different style of gaming. As long as the story and choices are still there, I'm fine

Boring ? Boring to me is Oblivion/Skyrim combat (mashing the buttons until 'i win')

And btw, the old school Gygax modules were all about straight up dungeon crawling. If the combat is well done/tactical with good encounter design, it doesn't need to be story driven at all. Doesn't mean i don't like the Planescape type rpg. (i can enjoy both)

I do like turn based strategy games. Only ones like X-Com and Jagged Alliance 2 with rpg elements too though.

Oh, the combat in Oblivion (haven't played Skyrim yet) is boring, no question. But the storytelling is...well, actually it's boring too. But the exploration is fun. Still, I'm talking about roleplaying games like the Witcher and Deus Ex series. Games that involve a lot more roleplaying than ToEE. I don't think you can fairly say that ToEE is better than those games because the combat is more complex...

Like i said, i can appreciate a game like ToEE for the great tactical combat, and i could appreciate a game like Planescape for the story/writing/dialog. ES games strength is the freedom and exploration. Different games for different tastes.

Well, I was mainly referring to your earlier statement about games being mindless these days. I wouldn't say The Witcher 2 is any less intelligent than Planescape Torment (well, it doesn't have as much rich dialogue as Planescape did, because of modern day demands for everything to be voice-acted, but if you read the in-game books and such, you can see that a lot of effort went into creating the world that the game takes place in).

 

[dyre]

Out of Bioware's games, I have played Mass effect 1 and a bit of the sequel, Kotor 1 and 2, Dragon age: Origins and Baldur's gate 2 about half-way through.
I'd say Mass effect is the best choice as first game, simply becuase it is the most user-friendly. Sure, much of the combat boils down to little more then click-at-target-to-kill, but the story is what really drives the game.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Whatever everyone else tells you; Don't. Play. Baldur's gate. As. Your. First. Bioware. Game!!!!!
Yeah, yeah, it's a great one and all, but it is also one of the least accessible games you are ever going to find becuase the mechanics of the game is so insanely illogical. For example, in order to have as good armor as possible, your armor stats is supposed to be as LOW as possible. What on earth is up with that??

Ugh, armor class was always the lower the better, until the more recent editions. New to d&d ? If so, it's not some insane concept to try and grasp. LOL

Wow, have games gotten so mindless that Baldurs is now looked as as this incredibly complex rpg ? LOL

As far as I know, most people play 3.5 or 4.0, so it's not like one would expect AC to be a lower-the-better sort of thing.

And it's not that games have become "mindless;" it's that game mechanics are different now. People worry more about timing their spells than the number they have per day. Fast paced, real-time combat means more emphasis on reflexes than numbers for AC. There's no need to be so pretentious about it.

That's why i like the traditional rpgs. Fully turn based combat, like Temple of Elemental is even better. More strategic and thoughtful, like a game of chess. And more true to real d&d. They obviously dumbed they're games down to appeal to more ppl who don't have the patience for real rpgs and learning everything about them. To me, that's part of the fun, figuring out the game.

Eh, Temple of Elemental Evil is pretty boring. It's like D&D without the roleplaying. Just...numbers. D&D shouldn't just be about strategy...play a turn based strategy game if you want that. It's about playing a role in a story in which you can make major choices that decide both your personality and the fate of the world around you. So I don't consider making gameplay simpler to really be a problem or "stupid." It's just necessary for a different style of gaming. As long as the story and choices are still there, I'm fine

Boring ? Boring to me is Oblivion/Skyrim combat (mashing the buttons until 'i win')

And btw, the old school Gygax modules were all about straight up dungeon crawling. If the combat is well done/tactical with good encounter design, it doesn't need to be story driven at all. Doesn't mean i don't like the Planescape type rpg. (i can enjoy both)

I do like turn based strategy games. Only ones like X-Com and Jagged Alliance 2 with rpg elements too though.

Oh, the combat in Oblivion (haven't played Skyrim yet) is boring, no question. But the storytelling is...well, actually it's boring too. But the exploration is fun. Still, I'm talking about roleplaying games like the Witcher and Deus Ex series. Games that involve a lot more roleplaying than ToEE. I don't think you can fairly say that ToEE is better than those games because the combat is more complex...

Like i said, i can appreciate a game like ToEE for the great tactical combat, and i could appreciate a game like Planescape for the story/writing/dialog. ES games strength is the freedom and exploration. Different games for different tastes.

Well, I was mainly referring to your earlier statement about games being mindless these days. I wouldn't say The Witcher 2 is any less intelligent than Planescape Torment (well, it doesn't have as much rich dialogue as Planescape did, because of modern day demands for everything to be voice-acted, but if you read the in-game books and such, you can see that a lot of effort went into creating the world that the game takes place in).

I haven't played the Twitcher 2. I tried the first one for a little bit at a friends, and it seemed pretty cool except for that timing your clicks style combat crap. What the hell were they thinking with that anyway ?

I have no idea. It's neither meaningfully complex nor more streamlined gameplay. The combat in Witcher 2 is simpler, but it's a much less combat-driven game (none of those "get 20 evil dog skulls" quests). But anyways, if the new Bioware games have gotten you depressed at the state of RPGs, definitely play The Witcher 2.

 

[octafish]

Baldur's Gate series.

It's still my favorite and is pretty much ageless.

It warms my heart to see this as the first response. I reccommend playing Baldur's Gate in the Baldur's Gate 2 engine. AKA Tutu.

 

[dyre]

Out of Bioware's games, I have played Mass effect 1 and a bit of the sequel, Kotor 1 and 2, Dragon age: Origins and Baldur's gate 2 about half-way through.
I'd say Mass effect is the best choice as first game, simply becuase it is the most user-friendly. Sure, much of the combat boils down to little more then click-at-target-to-kill, but the story is what really drives the game.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Whatever everyone else tells you; Don't. Play. Baldur's gate. As. Your. First. Bioware. Game!!!!!
Yeah, yeah, it's a great one and all, but it is also one of the least accessible games you are ever going to find becuase the mechanics of the game is so insanely illogical. For example, in order to have as good armor as possible, your armor stats is supposed to be as LOW as possible. What on earth is up with that??

Ugh, armor class was always the lower the better, until the more recent editions. New to d&d ? If so, it's not some insane concept to try and grasp. LOL

Wow, have games gotten so mindless that Baldurs is now looked as as this incredibly complex rpg ? LOL

As far as I know, most people play 3.5 or 4.0, so it's not like one would expect AC to be a lower-the-better sort of thing.

And it's not that games have become "mindless;" it's that game mechanics are different now. People worry more about timing their spells than the number they have per day. Fast paced, real-time combat means more emphasis on reflexes than numbers for AC. There's no need to be so pretentious about it.

That's why i like the traditional rpgs. Fully turn based combat, like Temple of Elemental is even better. More strategic and thoughtful, like a game of chess. And more true to real d&d. They obviously dumbed they're games down to appeal to more ppl who don't have the patience for real rpgs and learning everything about them. To me, that's part of the fun, figuring out the game.

Eh, Temple of Elemental Evil is pretty boring. It's like D&D without the roleplaying. Just...numbers. D&D shouldn't just be about strategy...play a turn based strategy game if you want that. It's about playing a role in a story in which you can make major choices that decide both your personality and the fate of the world around you. So I don't consider making gameplay simpler to really be a problem or "stupid." It's just necessary for a different style of gaming. As long as the story and choices are still there, I'm fine

Boring ? Boring to me is Oblivion/Skyrim combat (mashing the buttons until 'i win')

And btw, the old school Gygax modules were all about straight up dungeon crawling. If the combat is well done/tactical with good encounter design, it doesn't need to be story driven at all. Doesn't mean i don't like the Planescape type rpg. (i can enjoy both)

I do like turn based strategy games. Only ones like X-Com and Jagged Alliance 2 with rpg elements too though.

Oh, the combat in Oblivion (haven't played Skyrim yet) is boring, no question. But the storytelling is...well, actually it's boring too. But the exploration is fun. Still, I'm talking about roleplaying games like the Witcher and Deus Ex series. Games that involve a lot more roleplaying than ToEE. I don't think you can fairly say that ToEE is better than those games because the combat is more complex...

Like i said, i can appreciate a game like ToEE for the great tactical combat, and i could appreciate a game like Planescape for the story/writing/dialog. ES games strength is the freedom and exploration. Different games for different tastes.

Well, I was mainly referring to your earlier statement about games being mindless these days. I wouldn't say The Witcher 2 is any less intelligent than Planescape Torment (well, it doesn't have as much rich dialogue as Planescape did, because of modern day demands for everything to be voice-acted, but if you read the in-game books and such, you can see that a lot of effort went into creating the world that the game takes place in).

I haven't played the Twitcher 2. I tried the first one for a little bit at a friends, and it seemed pretty cool except for that timing your clicks style combat crap. What the hell were they thinking with that anyway ?

I have no idea. It's neither meaningfully complex nor more streamlined gameplay. The combat in Witcher 2 is simpler, but it's a much less combat-driven game (none of those "get 20 evil dog skulls" quests). But anyways, if the new Bioware games have gotten you depressed at the state of RPGs, definitely play The Witcher 2.

Nice. Bioware isn't the only ones that contributed to the decline though. Maybe i'll give the Twitcher 2 a run down the line some. Still have a bunch of old school RPGs to get to.

Well, imo Bioware and Black Isle represented the best in old school RPGs, and Black Isle became the mediocre Obsidian, while Bioware soldiered on. So the decline in roleplaying in Bioware games is more significant than the lack of roleplaying in, say, Bethseda games.

Btw, what other old school RPGs are there that have good stories besides the BG series, Planescape, Fallout series, and Arcanum? Also, I don't mean to be a graphics whore, but I can't really play games that look worse than those games...at that point I'd rather just go text-based >_>

 

[aarontg]

Id'e say start with dragon age and awakening because it's a better experience as a whole. Then wait until mass effect 3 comes out so you can play through the whole series uninterrupted.

 

[Xmaspast]

I like playing them in Chronological Order because you can really see the evolution they make from Game to Game. It's incredible. You can see where they took a good idea and ran with it and where they cut out bad ideas in each game.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Because of that, I've decided maybe Bioware would get me into WRPGs better. I already own Knights of the Old Republic on Steam (my most convenient way of getting games, although I might find more elsewhere), but I'm finding that a little hard to handle, for two reasons: it's a little tough for me (I got stuck on the first battle in the Lower City) and it's about as buggy as your average Bethesda masterpiece (sometimes my character just stands still for a minute, no matter how many keys I mash.)

That sums up many of my feelings to the matter as well. Sometimes, the game just crossed it's arms and expected me to survive an encounter that would shred my allies in seconds (if I was allowed to have allies). Also, the "stand still for no reason" thing bugged me (pun intended).

OT: If you're being inspired by Skyrim, then I'd say go for Origins + Awakening. Long, fun, and still one of my favorite gaming experiences.

I think I enjoyed Mass Effect more, but I love the idea of using standard RPG mechanics to run a space-based game. Plus the universe is wonderful - much more interesting and indepth than Dragon Age (which is a great universe with depth, but it's still High Fantasy (TM), even if it reverses a couple of tropes).

I didn't vote in the poll cause I'm honestly torn between Origins+Awakening and Mass Effect. Both are damn good.

Edit: Oh, also, if you're just looking for a WRPG, but not necessarily Bioware (but running a Bioware engine), and you like classic PC games, then I'll throw in a recommendation for Planescape: Torment.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

It's not really that; more that most of the details are obscured by stuff, like, for instance...where the bloody hell are all the augmentations?!

They are the little blue things hidden about some of the levels. You need a med-bot to install them.

 

[dyre]

Out of Bioware's games, I have played Mass effect 1 and a bit of the sequel, Kotor 1 and 2, Dragon age: Origins and Baldur's gate 2 about half-way through.
I'd say Mass effect is the best choice as first game, simply becuase it is the most user-friendly. Sure, much of the combat boils down to little more then click-at-target-to-kill, but the story is what really drives the game.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Whatever everyone else tells you; Don't. Play. Baldur's gate. As. Your. First. Bioware. Game!!!!!
Yeah, yeah, it's a great one and all, but it is also one of the least accessible games you are ever going to find becuase the mechanics of the game is so insanely illogical. For example, in order to have as good armor as possible, your armor stats is supposed to be as LOW as possible. What on earth is up with that??

Ugh, armor class was always the lower the better, until the more recent editions. New to d&d ? If so, it's not some insane concept to try and grasp. LOL

Wow, have games gotten so mindless that Baldurs is now looked as as this incredibly complex rpg ? LOL

As far as I know, most people play 3.5 or 4.0, so it's not like one would expect AC to be a lower-the-better sort of thing.

And it's not that games have become "mindless;" it's that game mechanics are different now. People worry more about timing their spells than the number they have per day. Fast paced, real-time combat means more emphasis on reflexes than numbers for AC. There's no need to be so pretentious about it.

That's why i like the traditional rpgs. Fully turn based combat, like Temple of Elemental is even better. More strategic and thoughtful, like a game of chess. And more true to real d&d. They obviously dumbed they're games down to appeal to more ppl who don't have the patience for real rpgs and learning everything about them. To me, that's part of the fun, figuring out the game.

Eh, Temple of Elemental Evil is pretty boring. It's like D&D without the roleplaying. Just...numbers. D&D shouldn't just be about strategy...play a turn based strategy game if you want that. It's about playing a role in a story in which you can make major choices that decide both your personality and the fate of the world around you. So I don't consider making gameplay simpler to really be a problem or "stupid." It's just necessary for a different style of gaming. As long as the story and choices are still there, I'm fine

Boring ? Boring to me is Oblivion/Skyrim combat (mashing the buttons until 'i win')

And btw, the old school Gygax modules were all about straight up dungeon crawling. If the combat is well done/tactical with good encounter design, it doesn't need to be story driven at all. Doesn't mean i don't like the Planescape type rpg. (i can enjoy both)

I do like turn based strategy games. Only ones like X-Com and Jagged Alliance 2 with rpg elements too though.

Oh, the combat in Oblivion (haven't played Skyrim yet) is boring, no question. But the storytelling is...well, actually it's boring too. But the exploration is fun. Still, I'm talking about roleplaying games like the Witcher and Deus Ex series. Games that involve a lot more roleplaying than ToEE. I don't think you can fairly say that ToEE is better than those games because the combat is more complex...

Like i said, i can appreciate a game like ToEE for the great tactical combat, and i could appreciate a game like Planescape for the story/writing/dialog. ES games strength is the freedom and exploration. Different games for different tastes.

Well, I was mainly referring to your earlier statement about games being mindless these days. I wouldn't say The Witcher 2 is any less intelligent than Planescape Torment (well, it doesn't have as much rich dialogue as Planescape did, because of modern day demands for everything to be voice-acted, but if you read the in-game books and such, you can see that a lot of effort went into creating the world that the game takes place in).

I haven't played the Twitcher 2. I tried the first one for a little bit at a friends, and it seemed pretty cool except for that timing your clicks style combat crap. What the hell were they thinking with that anyway ?

I have no idea. It's neither meaningfully complex nor more streamlined gameplay. The combat in Witcher 2 is simpler, but it's a much less combat-driven game (none of those "get 20 evil dog skulls" quests). But anyways, if the new Bioware games have gotten you depressed at the state of RPGs, definitely play The Witcher 2.

Nice. Bioware isn't the only ones that contributed to the decline though. Maybe i'll give the Twitcher 2 a run down the line some. Still have a bunch of old school RPGs to get to.

Well, imo Bioware and Black Isle represented the best in old school RPGs, and Black Isle became the mediocre Obsidian, while Bioware soldiered on. So the decline in roleplaying in Bioware games is more significant than the lack of roleplaying in, say, Bethseda games.

Btw, what other old school RPGs are there that have good stories besides the BG series, Planescape, Fallout series, and Arcanum? Also, I don't mean to be a graphics whore, but I can't really play games that look worse than those games...at that point I'd rather just go text-based >_>

Ehh, i would take Obsidian over the new Bioware any day. (DAO was ok though)

And for story driven rpgs check out the expansion for NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer and Vampire: Bloodlines. There's also some good story driven modules for NWN 1 and 2. (i could give you suggestions on those too if you want)

Betrayal at Krondor is a really good story driven RPG too, but it's a bit older.

meh, I've played the NWN2 expansions and Bloodlines already. And I'd say Bloodlines is mediocre at best :\

There's nothing else in isometric age?

 

[ResonanceGames]

meh, I've played the NWN2 expansions and Bloodlines already. And I'd say Bloodlines is mediocre at best :\

If you thought Bloodlines was bad, I suggest you just ignore RPGs in general because there are only a handful of them better than that. That game was roleplaying in the most literal sense, where the entire game was tailored around the characterization you chose. Plus, the dialogue was some of the best out there. Fantastic game.

 

[Rinshan Kaihou]

Mass Effect, because indeed SPAAAACCE. Also, Because Jennifer Hale's voice acting is a breath of fresh air in an industry where most voice actors deliver their lines with about as much emotion as a brick that has been crapped on. Seriously, you have to make femshep. Mass Effect is probably the deepest game I've ever experienced, and I love it and still play it all the time.

 

[AD-Stu]

My personal choice would be Mass Effect - easily the best story out of the lot, with by far the most fully-realised game universe (seriously, it's a rival for the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises in that respect) and a great mix of RPG and action elements.

Dragon Age was incredibly well executed and even without the expansion packs it's still a looooooooong game so you'll get value for money. There won't be anything much you haven't seen before though, as it's all pretty standard party-based swords and sorcery fare. Combat on anything above the easiest levels gets tiresome in a hurry - unless you've really got a thing for micromanaging. Also, the DLC (on PC at least) had a tendency to be buggy.

Jade Empire was a decent game, again very well executed, but it didn't do a whole lot for me - I played it through once then pretty much forgot about it. Worth a play if you can pick it up cheap I guess.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Dragon Age: Origins if you want a more traditional RPG, KOTOR is my favourite RPG but as you said you found it quite tough (the tutorial is quite tough, once you fully understand the combat though it's not that hard) and you said you found a lot of bugs (buy it for Xbox 1 or pirate it?)...There are a few bugs but nothing that annoyed me very much.

I bought it on Steam during the summer sale, and I was under the impression that Steam patched automatically...And besides, the combat was fine; I just got unavoidably clusterf***ed at one point and said "to hell with that".

dragon age and kotor use VERY similar game mechanics, so if you are into "fantasy" at all, i would recommend dragon age origins + awakening (awakening imports your character and stuff from origins, they are both amazingly well done) and once you get a good feel from dragon age (which actually..it's "claimed" to be kind of hard, so i would def. recommend you starting on easy on dragon age, just so you aren't having friendly fire problems) and enjoy that, i think you can move back to kotor and really enjoy it (the lower city/taris is the most boring part of the game imo..so once you get past that it really picks up and starts going.)


although jade empire and mass effect are also both great choices

(yes i am a bioware fanboy...but i stay calm and considerate in most cases!)

 

[dyre]

meh, I've played the NWN2 expansions and Bloodlines already. And I'd say Bloodlines is mediocre at best :\

If you thought Bloodlines was bad, I suggest you just ignore RPGs in general because there are only a handful of them better than that. That game was roleplaying in the most literal sense, where the entire game was tailored around the characterization you chose. Plus, the dialogue was some of the best out there. Fantastic game.

Eh, it was really closer to "choose one of these preset roles" rather than developing your own character. And the story was...ok. The dialogue was fun though, yeah.

My only other suggestions for story driven rpgs (besides the Bioware games and JRPGs) are Anachronox, Sith Lords (get the restoration mod), Deus ex (has some rpg elements) Like i said before, there are some really good older ones (don't be a graphics ho ! LOL) like Betrayal at Krondor and Darklands.

Seriously though, if your looking for heavy story, what about expanding into adventure games like- The Longest Journey, Monkey Island games, Blade Runner, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Sanitarium, Beneath a Steel Sky, Quest for Glory and Gabriel Knight series...

Well, I've never played Anachronox (or even heard of it), so I'll give that a try. I've played KOTOR 2 and Deus Ex. I think I'm more of an aesthetics ho, lol. I like the isometric look, but I can't stand the shitty 3D stuff from 2002 to 2005 or so.

As for point-and-click adventures...uh, maybe on a particularly rainy day. A hurricane, perhaps.