Poll: Which game is more original? Halo or Goldeneye?

[Netrigan]

I'm going to say Halo. I don't remember an FPS feeling as big as Halo did, especially with its sprawling levels. Most of the FPS I remember were roaming around corridors and relatively small maps. I think Halo was definitely the first "modern" FPS, if that makes any sense.

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, Unreal, Deus Ex, Serious Sam... every one of those had huge sprawling levels. The sort where you you see this tiny speck on the horizon and that's where you were going to be by level's end. Jedi Knight used to love having TIE Fighters doing bombing runs on you when you were outside. But Unreal is generally regarded as the first one to have really huge outdoor levels. When I finally got my hands on Halo, Unreal was the game it most reminded me of. When Serious Sam came out, they boasted about how many square miles their levels where.

 

[Netrigan]

Well obviously Goldeneye.

It was the first modern FPS and practically invented the modern multiplayer. It set the foundations for all other shooters since.

Apart from split-screen (which PC gaming never did), Doom was the game that invented modern multiplayer, with Quake laying the foundation for Internet play. Goldeneye would come out the year after that.

 

[Netrigan]

Anyways, i think i'd have to go with Halo. Yes, Goldeneye is awesome fun and did set FPS's out on the right path, but Halo added a huge amount of gameplay features that i think a lot of people seem to overlook and take for granted. Managing two weapons? Started in Halo. Recovering health? Started in Halo. Seperate button for melee and grenade throws, rather then selecting a grenade or melee weapon? Yup, Halo.

Being able to carry two different weapons... that might have been Halo. The other stuff had been done before. Recharging health was often used for the easiest difficulties (such as Serious Sam), Melee button was featured in Duke 3D with the quick kick (not a weapon butt but essentially the same thing), grenade throws showed up in Team Fortress.

Halo pulled together a lot of seldom used options and made them insanely popular.

 

[Squilookle]

HALO! *fanboy rages*

That was called "sarcasm," children.

Goldeneye. I have very fond memories of playing that game.

Tho, i will give Halo credit. It started a trend of really lame FPSs, culminating in Cock of Doody: Modern Gay Fuck Stupid 2.

Halo wasnt the the game to start the dull, grey, bland shooters you see now, it was Goldeneye. Halo just knew how to keep the console FPS flagship going

Hang on... Goldeneye wasn't dull, grey and bland.

My fault i meant to say that is started all the dull, grey, bland ones. "Goldeneye clones" people trying to copy them. Better?

Unfortunately no, you're still wrong. Most Goldeneye 'clones', whether they be The World Is Not Enough, Timesplitters, Perfect Dark, Agent under Fire, Nightfire, Goldeneye Rogue Agent, XIII, Unreal Championship, Red Faction, indeed even Halo itself were still quite vibrant and colourful. In all honesty I don't really remember intentionally brownish FPSes arriving before Gears Of War.


And as for writing the console FPS book, it boils down to this:

*Goldeneye wrote it
*TWINE copied it almost exactly, but expanded the multiplayer and some singleplayer elements
*Timesplitters kept it pretty similar but ditched good storytelling for faster action and customisation
*Perfect Dark completely re-wrote it, taking customisation and multiplayer to levels never seen before or since, with custom weapon setups, incredibly deep bot options, co-op campaign play and even counter op campaign play, and remains the most advanced and complete console FPS to this day, with all the boxes ticked.

Then Halo came along, took the base goldeneye book, ditched the smooth aiming in favour of a stiff, bolted to the centre of the screen one (hey, it works for PCs, right?) and then just copied the enemy types from Half Life. It also ditched the tried and tested challenge vs reward system seen in just about all the other games in favour of a checkpoint based system playable by players with even the most miniscule attention spans.

Halo did do true innovation by popularising the control scheme, regenerative health, sci-fi FPSes, and perhaps more than anything vehicles in a console FPS at a time when they were just stretching their legs. Battlefield was still on the horizon, UT2004 was still in development as UT2003, and Tribes 2 only had a cult following at the time. From a control point of view, Goldeneye was little more than a mobile time crisis, and Halo was nothing more than Half life awkwardly placed on a console. From a mission design point of view, Goldeneye kept it fresh and interesting all the time with varied levels, whereas Halo used copious amounts of copy pasting. Levels were nice and big Like Unreal, and that was great, but not a lot of variety besides that.

I'd say Halo is more innovative than Goldeneye overall, but Perfect Dark is more innovative than any shooter that has ever appeared on a console, and most on PC too.

 

[crystalsnow]

Snip

That would be Quake

No because while Quake was brown, it was more like Unreal Tournament (which was pretty much descended from Quake) in that it was still unrealistic.

 

[The Common Hours]

wow...

Hmmm... well i guess people take things a little too literal

 

[Netrigan]

Snip

That would be Quake

No because while Quake was brown, it was more like Unreal Tournament (which was pretty much descended from Quake) in that it was still unrealistic.

Halo has a good number of faults, but being brown isn't one of them. It's a colorful game along the lines of the Unreal series. Quake, on the other hand, originated brown level design, liked it so much that they made sure their next three games were dedicated to the color... and looks like the fourth one will continue the trend when it hits consoles in the next year or so.

The realistic weapon thing... it's been a growing problem in FPS. There's a fairly small number of weapon archetypes (pistol, shotgun, machine gun, sniper rifle (with rail gun variant), grenade launcher, rocket launcher, etc.) and any sci-fi shooter will split the difference between realistic Earth weapons and alien variants. Halo plopped itself smack dab in the middle of a well-worn groove... and I will even give it points for adding a bit of inventory maintenance to the mechanic. Seems like the days of shrink rays and voodoo dolls are gone forever *sniff*

I'm not a Halo fan, but the game did a lot right. It started a couple of trends I dislike, but it also helped jump-start a couple that are solid game play options, like vehicles and weapon management.

 

[Radioactive Bob]

Anyways, i think i'd have to go with Halo. Yes, Goldeneye is awesome fun and did set FPS's out on the right path, but Halo added a huge amount of gameplay features that i think a lot of people seem to overlook and take for granted. Managing two weapons? Started in Halo. Recovering health? Started in Halo. Seperate button for melee and grenade throws, rather then selecting a grenade or melee weapon? Yup, Halo.

Being able to carry two different weapons... that might have been Halo. The other stuff had been done before. Recharging health was often used for the easiest difficulties (such as Serious Sam), Melee button was featured in Duke 3D with the quick kick (not a weapon butt but essentially the same thing), grenade throws showed up in Team Fortress.

Halo pulled together a lot of seldom used options and made them insanely popular.

Very fair point, in fact i'm going to withdraw my previous statment that Halo was more original and call it a tie. I'll still hold true that Halo was extremely original though in it's story and overall execution of gameplay though. But knowing this, it doesnt seem fair to place it above Goldeneye.

 

[crystalsnow]

Halo has a good number of faults, but being brown isn't one of them. It's a colorful game along the lines of the Unreal series. Quake, on the other hand, originated brown level design, liked it so much that they made sure their next three games were dedicated to the color... and looks like the fourth one will continue the trend when it hits consoles in the next year or so.

The realistic weapon thing... it's been a growing problem in FPS. There's a fairly small number of weapon archetypes (pistol, shotgun, machine gun, sniper rifle (with rail gun variant), grenade launcher, rocket launcher, etc.) and any sci-fi shooter will split the difference between realistic Earth weapons and alien variants. Halo plopped itself smack dab in the middle of a well-worn groove... and I will even give it points for adding a bit of inventory maintenance to the mechanic. Seems like the days of shrink rays and voodoo dolls are gone forever *sniff*

I'm not a Halo fan, but the game did a lot right. It started a couple of trends I dislike, but it also helped jump-start a couple that are solid game play options, like vehicles and weapon management.

You misunderstand me. I don't hate Halo, I hate that its popularity helped start the trend of bad FPS.

 

[Netrigan]

You misunderstand me. I don't hate Halo, I hate that its popularity helped start the trend of bad FPS.

Apart from Recharging Shields (which I consider the only really negative trend it started), I maintain the crap trends existed long before Halo. They plopped down into a very well-established groove of familiar weapons, familiar space marines, familiar invading alien baddies... even familiar Alien face-hugger wannabes jumping at you.

It just turned the volume up to 11 on these shit trends by being such a huge hit.

 

[Squilookle]

wow...

Hmmm... well i guess people take things a little too literal

I see, so when you state outright that Goldeneye started the trend of dull, grey, bland shooters, that wasn't literal? I would love to know what you call that instead... figurative, perhaps?

 

[The Common Hours]

wow...

Hmmm... well i guess people take things a little too literal

I see, so when you state outright that Goldeneye started the trend of dull, grey, bland shooters, that wasn't literal? I would love to know what you call that instead... figurative, perhaps?

Go try to argue with someone else on a different post, bye bye now.

 

[Squilookle]

wow...

Hmmm... well i guess people take things a little too literal

I see, so when you state outright that Goldeneye started the trend of dull, grey, bland shooters, that wasn't literal? I would love to know what you call that instead... figurative, perhaps?

Go try to argue with someone else on a different post, bye bye now.

Give me a straight answer instead of avoiding it and I just might, you never know...