Poll: Who would win in a fight? Harry Potter or Vegeta?

[sageoftruth]

I can't see any possible scenario where Harry wins. Avada Kedavra is the only thing Harry can use which has a chance of killing him, and even then 2 big things get in the way of that;

1) Harry likely wouldn't use it since he's against using it
2) It might not even kill Vegeta

Avada doesn't always kill - there has to be enough power behind it. Mad Eye Moody makes the comment in Goblet of Fire that there needs to be enough power behind it for it work, and uses the example that the classroom of teenagers facing him could at most (and in unison) give him a nosebleed. Harry likely could kill a human, but Vegeta is a Saiyan & a powerful one at that. There's also a great possibility that he could dodge it.

Even assuming Harry does kill him, Vegeta would eventually come back and kill him dead before he gets the chance to do anything.

Thanks. I needed someone to clear that up for me. My Harry Potter lore is very limited. So, why might the spell not kill Vegeta? Isn't it basically a death spell?

Anyway, if we take their personalities into account, this will probably be a lengthier fight than I first guessed, due to Vegeta's cockiness, and Harry's reluctance to use the only spell that might kill Vegeta.

My basic argument has been why would Harry need to kill Vegeta? Why not just turn him into something harmless? I mean if he decides to say turn him into a Gerbil and stick him a cage somewhere that pretty much ends the fight without actually needing to kill, and wizards can transform people and things rather easily, heck they can even do it by accident. Or just erase his memory for that matter and leave him staggering around in a stupor barely able to feet himself, before presumably being sent to whatever ward they used for semi-vegetative Super Saiyans?

Besides the impression I get is that the "unforgivable curses" are mostly ways of doing very cruel things to people. Killing with magic seems to be easily accomplished through other methods, for example when Dumbledore and Voldemort went at it they weren't screwing around and Dumbledore didn't exactly appear to be using any of the illegal spells, or was not mentioned to be doing so at least.

It's like this, you can cast Avada, or transform Vegeta into a cockroach and step on him. Either works, only one of them is considered inherently illegal in the wizarding world. Ditto for fire, lightning, and all of that other good stuff... but again, Harry doesn't like to kill, and truthfully he has an almost limitless array of options for ending this with a spell which wouldn't result in Vegeta's death, and unless someone rescued him I he would likely just wind up living out the rest of his days being fed through a straw or enjoying the taste sensation of Gerbil pellets.

That said the whole idea of unforgivable curses seemed like the distinction between using the light side and dark side offensively in the expanded Star Wars stuff (which I guess is no longer canon). Basically it's considered dark side and evil to attack someone with lightning, but if you say decide to simply pulverize them with telekinetic force that's perfectly light side and acceptable as long as you don't choke them. When playing "Old Republic" either single player or online and some of the books and stuff which have used this logic, I've oftentimes wondered at exactly how stoning people to death or crushing every bone in someones into powder with direct brute force telekinesis was somehow considered morally acceptable compared to simple electrocution or asphyxiation. I mean to the guy being pelted to death by rocks over a channel, or having a giant boulder smashed into them, or screaming "arggggh!" as every inch of their body spontaneously implodes under crushing force (or they go flying back into a wall at bullet speed and their body shatters) I doubt it matters much, and frankly one could argue the dark side might strictly speaking actually be a bit more humanitarian than telekinetic execution.

Say your in Harry Potter, your being targeted, Avada might kill you nastily, but it's going to be pretty quick as opposed to say slow and gradual use of a Cruiciacious curse. But if someone say decides to turn you into a guppy and let you slowly choke to death flopping around on the ground that might be murder but it's not "unforgivable" I mean in theory you could justify doing that to someone in self defense, or while fighting. Given your option on how to die, which would you rather pick? I'm not seeing much difference.

Kind of irrelevant, but it's one of those things I think about when it comes to "good and evil" magic, super powers, etc... "Oh hey, I turned all the water in your brain into ice, but at least I didn't impale you with bone shards because that would be evil necromancy!".

At the end of the day though Harry doesn't have to kill to win this, indeed Transfiguration seems to be his strong suit (like his father).

When you put it that way, Harry's chances seem a bit better than before, since he doesn't have any personality quirks holding him back from at least disabling Vegeta as soon as he's able to. The thought of Vegeta as an indignantly raging gerbil cracks me up.

I guess, in the end, it's practically a given that Vegeta will underestimate him. The question is, whether or not a cocky, overconfident Vegeta would give Harry the chance to use one of his many spells.

 

[Asita]

It has been a while, but my understanding from the books was that they were indeed one and the same item, the apparent destruction of the sorcerer's stone was a dupe so it wouldn't be expected to reappear. It's true nature not revealed (as opposed to what was said originally) until the concept of The Deathly Hallows was introduced. It has been a while however since I either watched the movies or read the books (which there are differences between) so I could be wrong but that is the understanding I came away with. Likewise my impression is that the Deathly Hallows were indeed created by death, however most people did not believe they existed because the idea was so far fetched, only a select few wizards and crackpots believing that such things were out there.

You're misremembering. The Philosopher's Stone is a legendary alchemic item, purportedly able to turn metals into gold and produce the "Elixir of Life", which classically has healing/rejuvenative properties. The Resurrection Stone is loosely based on the concept of necromancy in the way it allows one to summon the spirits of the dead, which again is the only ability ever truly attributed to it, though Grindelwald did apparently speculate it could allow him to raise a zombie army. The Philosopher's Stone was - to the best of the reader's knowledge only ever in the possession of Nicholas Flammel and the people guarding it, whereas the Resurrection Stone was the centerpiece of a ring owned by Voldemort's Grandfather (though he was unaware of its nature) and subsequently turned into a horcrux, and it wasn't until Dumbledore got his hands on it that anyone realized what it was...at which point his excitement led him to promptly forget that it was a horcrux and try to use it, resulting in the curse on his arm in Half-Blood Prince. There is nothing textually to suggest that the items are in any way related, and they are never purported to possess the abilities you're attributing to them here.

It's also perhaps worth noting that while various characters treat the concept of "Master of Death" said to follow the acquisition of the three Deathly Hallows as effective immortality, Rowling did clarify that it meant quite the opposite. To quote "As Dumbledore explains, the real master of Death accepts that he must die, and that there are much worse things in the world of the living. It is not about striving for immortality, but about accepting mortality." The stone possessing the ability to truly defy death would very much stand in opposition to that lesson.

 

[McMarbles]

We're talking a series where the characters were, at their base level, capable of vaporizing the moon, right?

 

[kyp275]

We're talking a series where the characters were, at their base level, capable of vaporizing the moon, right?

Yea? I?m frankly surprised that this managed to get to page 3. Vegeta vs Harry Potter isn?t Superman vs Lex Luthor, it?s an Imperial Star Destroyer vs. a 1/100th scale model of the Wright Brother?s plane. The power level of the two universes are entirely way too far apart.

Vegeta can underestimate Harry, let him fire off his spell, realize he underestimated Harry, grab a sandwich from a convenience store 2 blocks away, sun-tan while he eats the sandwich, and slaps Harry into next week before his spell managed to travel half the distance between them.

Remember the scene with Quicksilver in Days of Future Past? It?d be like that, except worse.

 

[Therumancer]

It has been a while, but my understanding from the books was that they were indeed one and the same item, the apparent destruction of the sorcerer's stone was a dupe so it wouldn't be expected to reappear. It's true nature not revealed (as opposed to what was said originally) until the concept of The Deathly Hallows was introduced. It has been a while however since I either watched the movies or read the books (which there are differences between) so I could be wrong but that is the understanding I came away with. Likewise my impression is that the Deathly Hallows were indeed created by death, however most people did not believe they existed because the idea was so far fetched, only a select few wizards and crackpots believing that such things were out there.

You're misremembering. The Philosopher's Stone is a legendary alchemic item, purportedly able to turn metals into gold and produce the "Elixir of Life", which classically has healing/rejuvenative properties. The Resurrection Stone is loosely based on the concept of necromancy in the way it allows one to summon the spirits of the dead, which again is the only ability ever truly attributed to it, though Grindelwald did apparently speculate it could allow him to raise a zombie army. The Philosopher's Stone was - to the best of the reader's knowledge only ever in the possession of Nicholas Flammel and the people guarding it, whereas the Resurrection Stone was the centerpiece of a ring owned by Voldemort's Grandfather (though he was unaware of its nature) and subsequently turned into a horcrux, and it wasn't until Dumbledore got his hands on it that anyone realized what it was...at which point his excitement led him to promptly forget that it was a horcrux and try to use it, resulting in the curse on his arm in Half-Blood Prince. There is nothing textually to suggest that the items are in any way related, and they are never purported to possess the abilities you're attributing to them here.

It's also perhaps worth noting that while various characters treat the concept of "Master of Death" said to follow the acquisition of the three Deathly Hallows as effective immortality, Rowling did clarify that it meant quite the opposite. To quote "As Dumbledore explains, the real master of Death accepts that he must die, and that there are much worse things in the world of the living. It is not about striving for immortality, but about accepting mortality." The stone possessing the ability to truly defy death would very much stand in opposition to that lesson.

That of course could also just be Dumbledore's interpretation as bad things happened to all of the brothers in the story. We'll have to agree to disagree on whether having all three makes Harry effectively invincible, especially seeing as I have pointed out myself that he is unlikely to possess all three in any confrontation. Besides by your logic aren't you basically saying that if push comes to shove Harry could have an army of zombies Vegeta would have to get through first guaranteeing the first strike? Sure Harry going full "Necromancer" does seem unlikely but then again in this argument we're also undercutting Vegeta's overconfidence by not giving Harry the first strike for those reasons. Like a lot of the discussion involved here one cannot hold Harry back for personality based limitations but then not do the same for Vegeta.

I mean don't get me wrong I've failed to turn the poll (big time) but at the end of the day the bottom line is that it ends with one strike, and if Harry decides to transfigure Vegeta it's over. He's probably got dozens of ways of getting a shot at him, all of which can be argued, but at the end of the day Vegeta would likely just give him that shot and then spend the rest of his Saiyan existence as an endless toilet paper dispenser or a gerbil or whatever.

 

[kyp275]

I mean don't get me wrong I've failed to turn the poll (big time) but at the end of the day the bottom line is that it ends with one strike, and if Harry decides to transfigure Vegeta it's over. He's probably got dozens of ways of getting a shot at him, all of which can be argued, but at the end of the day Vegeta would likely just give him that shot and then spend the rest of his Saiyan existence as an endless toilet paper dispenser or a gerbil or whatever.

Nevermind what I said about the speed difference between the two(Harry has about as much chance of hitting Vegeta as a 400lb man in a wheel chair hitting Quicksilver with a punch), transfiguring Vegeta wouldn't end anything - he'd just insta-gib Harry as a toilet paper dispenser or gerbil, as you said.

 

[Tiger King]

I said harry potter.
don't like the books or films one bit, but 'vegeta' (whoever that is) sounds like something a lady would use to cure a yeast infection.
besides, harry has a little special scar on his head making him ultra special.

 

[Therumancer]

I mean don't get me wrong I've failed to turn the poll (big time) but at the end of the day the bottom line is that it ends with one strike, and if Harry decides to transfigure Vegeta it's over. He's probably got dozens of ways of getting a shot at him, all of which can be argued, but at the end of the day Vegeta would likely just give him that shot and then spend the rest of his Saiyan existence as an endless toilet paper dispenser or a gerbil or whatever.

Nevermind what I said about the speed difference between the two(Harry has about as much chance of hitting Vegeta as a 400lb man in a wheel chair hitting Quicksilver with a punch), transfiguring Vegeta wouldn't end anything - he'd just insta-gib Harry as a toilet paper dispenser or gerbil, as you said.

However, it should be noted that Vegeta gets hit by energy blasts all the time, he dodges some yes, but he also gets nailed. Harry doesn't have to punch him. What's more with transfiguration there doesn't appear to be any blast or beam to dodge. What's more the way it works in the Wizarding world is that transfiguring a living thing into an object or animal doesn't allow the person transfigured that way to retain any of their powers or abilities. Vegeta would for example just be a normal Gerbil, fish out of water, or piece of furniture, he wouldn't say be a Gerbil with Super Saiyan powers anymore, although it could be argued the methods used in his universe might cause that to happen, but he's not dealing with a shapechange enforced by someone in the DBZ universe. The bottom line is all Harry needs is one shot and it's over, the same for Vegeta.

Personality wise Vegeta is likely to give Harry that shot, and beyond that as I've pointed out there are methods by which Harry could bushwhack him if we're going with the full array of abilities and items that Harry has at his disposal.

 

[Therumancer]

I said harry potter.
don't like the books or films one bit, but 'vegeta' (whoever that is) sounds like something a lady would use to cure a yeast infection.
besides, harry has a little special scar on his head making him ultra special.

Vegeta is an alien martial arts master from the action-comedy universe of "Dragon Ball Z" where a lot of the characters have very silly names. A good comparison for him would probably be if one of the well known cosmic-level DC or Marvel characters took kung-fu lessons. He tends to run around the universe sort of like "Champion" from The Marvel Universe using a device called a "scouter" to evaluate the power level of different beings and challenge those that he thinks are strong to duels. The whole "over 9000" joke from DBZ is a reference to scouter-power ratings where they frequently run into beings who are so powerful that they max out the limit on how far the scouter can evaluate them. At top Tier a lot of the DBZ characters can destroy planets as easily as someone like Superman or The Silver Surfer could, it's just that unlike those characters they use this power casually (especially for comedic effect) and like a lot of Anime characters self control is not the strong suit of pretty much anyone in that universe. While Vegeta doesn't destroy planets casually, guys from that universe have done so, so sort of envision what would happen if Superman decided he just wanted to fly around the galaxy and use his full heat vision power to core plants as he flew past or someone with the power cosmic thought blowing up civilized worlds (as opposed to scouting them for say Galactus to eat, or becoming a peaceful explorer and philosopher).

The nature of the duel is one where like many fights involving Superman, the potential power level of the character is such he could pretty much win without most beings not on a similar power ever getting a shot by say just flat out blowing up the planet (though that would be fairly out of character). The idea here is a fight, so presumably the idea would be that Vegeta would see Harry's potential power level on his scouter and challenge him due to Vegeta's desire to show he has the galaxy's biggest E-peen rating on his scouter. My point is largely that if Harry ever did get a shot he could defeat Vegeta by transforming him into something harmless, which is possible by the rules of Harry's universe. Most straight ways of attacking Vegeta would be ineffective unless you had something on a truly crazy level. The thing is Vegeta has a tendency to show up and say "go ahead, take your shot" given that he is totally cocky (and sometimes he regrets this severely as a result) which is presumably what would happen here and since Harry can do more than just say hit him with an E-peen energy blast for them to compare power levels it wouldn't end well for Vegeta. Or conversely if Harry had time to prepare and Vegeta was just walking along on planet level or something could also end the fight by bushwhacking him.

It's very much a Superman Vs. Batman kind of fight when you get down to it, Superman could nuke Batman from orbit easily, but if you give Batman a chance to face him and time to prepare it's much more interesting. Superman's arch enemy (who has beaten him numerous times) is Lex Luthor who is the same basic way, being entirely based on preparation, head on Lex Vs. Superman isn't anywhere near a fair fight, but well... if you read Superman you know Lex deserves the title of "Arch Enemy" for some very good reasons. That's what this fight reminds me of, and I took Harry's side because once you omit the use of a gross abuse of power which is outside of Vegeta's personality as much as it Superman's (albeit for very different reasons) the entire equasion changes.

This was based on a girlfriend/boyfriend argument. Me, personally, if I was trying to set up a confrontation of this sort between two forces that are similar and roughly even I would have say pitted "The Champion" against "Vegeta" since they do pretty much the same exact thing, and have very similar types of powers being incredibly skilled fighters with vast, cosmic-level energy manipulation abilities. What's more I could easily see those two having an dick waving contest if they ever learned about each other since they pretty much travel around the universe looking for people to challenge to prove how tough they are. Of course nowadays more people know Vegeta than know The Champion or are familiar with say "The Power Primordial" which he uses. Champion being one of Marvel's "Elders Of The Universe" who survived from the destruction of the universe before this one, hence he's literally older than the current universe. But I wasn't the one who was creating a match up so it's largely academic.