Poll: Why is "No Russian" so bad?

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4fromK

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Mrkittycat said:
That's all you do in GTA, so why is it so bad in Call of Duty? Is it because this series has never done anything like this before? Discuss
wasnt there alot of hate for GTA 3 when it featured a mission where you had to ram a plane into a building? same thing. you push into controversial ground, and current events like terrorism and attacks on civilians by the militia, you gonna get burned by someone. also, unless im mistaken (im not really into fad gaming) you control an undercover american soldier in this mission, and if you shoot civilians, that kind of implies that the devs are saying an american agent would kill innocents to keep up his cover.

that said, it was still unwarranted bile from ignorant outlets so go figure.
 

Donttazemehbro

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Nov 24, 2009
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Its the Premise of No Russian. I thought it was a bit outrageous but i mean its a video game, ur killing pixels not humans. the people on the new piss me off, saying oh their training people to be terrorists and your gona become a terrorist if u play this. They did this with mass effect as well.
 

Ghonzor

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ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
Maybe because you

<spoiler=Not so much a small spoiler>don't

but hey, that's just silly now isn't it?
 

firedfns13

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Because it part of the worst plot ever made in the history of man.
And it was also only put in to generate controversy.
 

Rawker

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scnj said:
GTA is about playing as a criminal so that stuff is expected. In CoD, it's more of a shock.
It's a terrorist, and mowing down innocents isn't expected?
 

WaywardHaymaker

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Because that's how deranged and desensitized the MAIN villain is.

You know, Shepard. Not Makarov. Shepard sent you, a Ranger, out to mow down civilians to start a war that will kill more civilians just to make an example out of Russia and reinstate American international power.

It's not the killing of video game avatars, it's what it represents.
 

scnj

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Rawker said:
scnj said:
GTA is about playing as a criminal so that stuff is expected. In CoD, it's more of a shock.
It's a terrorist, and mowing down innocents isn't expected?
How many other CoD games let you play as a terrorist?
 

ejb626

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Compare the mission to say GTA IV in that game you can kill thousands of civillians and in even more sadistic ways and don't get me started on Saints Row 2 which is basically GTAIV on a sugar high and allows you to chainsaw civies, and use brutal Mortal Kombat-esque takedowns on anyone even an old lady. Yet you don't hear anything about them I think its the airport setting of the mission I also think IW did it on purpose they wanted to piss off "family" gamers and get publicity and it worked.
 

USSR

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Ghonzor said:
ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
Maybe because you

<spoiler=Not so much a small spoiler>don't

but hey, that's just silly now isn't it?
EDIT: Regardless,

Go beat the ever living shit out of the pope and see you cause any controversy.
 

DJude

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ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
yeah but, hes evil, and it was hundreds of years ago, and it wasnt evil the real pope(at the time)

now, if it were the real pope and he wasnt evil and it was current day, then id imagine there being something about it...
 

Ghonzor

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Jul 29, 2009
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ansem1532 said:
Ghonzor said:
ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
Maybe because you

<spoiler=Not so much a small spoiler>don't

but hey, that's just silly now isn't it?
EDIT: Regardless,

Go beat the ever living shit out of the pope and see you cause any controversy.
I saw your non-edit...and damn I'm sorry.

I read past that and realized that I should change it. But it was too late.
 

DJude

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ejb626 said:
Compare the mission to say GTA IV in that game you can kill thousands of civillians and in even more sadistic ways and don't get me started on Saints Row 2 which is basically GTAIV on a sugar high and allows you to chainsaw civies, and use brutal Mortal Kombat-esque takedowns on anyone even an old lady. Yet you don't hear anything about them I think its the airport setting of the mission I also think IW did it on purpose they wanted to piss off "family" gamers and get publicity and it worked.
soooo, their like trolls? purposely pissing off people for attention?
 

USSR

Probably your average communist.
Oct 4, 2008
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VENN724 said:
ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
yeah but, hes evil, and it was hundreds of years ago, and it wasnt evil the real pope(at the time)

now, if it were the real pope and he wasnt evil and it was current day, then id imagine there being something about it...
So, being in a modern time in a fake war, with fake people at a fake airport with fake terrorists during a fake terrorist attack should be ANY different?

Ghonzor said:
I saw your non-edit...and damn I'm sorry.

I read past that and realized that I should change it. But it was too late.
I changed because I thought it was a bit too offensive for what I was going for o_O

..my bad.
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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OK, this is to the many people who have called me out on saying it had no reason to be there apart from shock value:

One; it can be skipped, with approximately zero loss of understanding to the story. This alone shows that there was really no NEED for the scene. You can refer to it alone and it works just fine. One could argue it's better to show than tell, sure, but...
Two: It never really justifies its existence in that regard either. The only thing playing the scene shows is that it's brutal and nasty and horrible.

Now, I would like to show a contrast of two games that did similar concepts, but did them well. Namely, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.

First, the infamous nuke scene. This scene had endlessly more punch and ferocity and is no less dreadful in its content -- An entire city blown to pieces by a single man. The character you've come to empathise with and appreciate dies under your control. "Deadly", the pilot you rescue beforehand, can be seen as you crawl away from the wreckage, turning your quest to save her into tragic irony.

See that? That's the undertone. That's the emotional impact. It's everything No Russian lacks.

But even there was a better scene: When you take control of an AC-130 gunship. This scene was chilling in every sense, the eerie black and white graphics, muted noise of explosions, etc. was designed to make you feel not like you were playing the part of a bomber but that you WERE a bomber. Every time you pressed that trigger, people died on the ground. You were almost immune to retaliation. It was brutal, horrible stuff. And it scared the crap out of me in a way No Russian could only dream of.

As I've said: No Russian was gratuitious. You could have just as easily left it alone, or constructed a less horrific scenario, or hinted at the destruction created without showing it to you directly.

But they didn't. They knew darn well what they wanted, and what they wanted was controversy.
 

Ghonzor

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Jul 29, 2009
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ansem1532 said:
VENN724 said:
ansem1532 said:
I don't know. I surprised people have made a huge deal out of this, but in Assassins Creed 2 when you..<spoiler=Small spoiler>Assassinate the pope..

..nobody says much.
yeah but, hes evil, and it was hundreds of years ago, and it wasnt evil the real pope(at the time)

now, if it were the real pope and he wasnt evil and it was current day, then id imagine there being something about it...
So, being in a modern time in a fake war, with fake people at a fake airport with fake terrorists during a fake terrorist attack should be ANY different?

Ghonzor said:
I saw your non-edit...and damn I'm sorry.

I read past that and realized that I should change it. But it was too late.
I changed because I thought it was a bit too offensive for what I was going for o_O

..my bad.
I'm gonna go ahead and say we were both at fault a bit here.

And since we're both sorry, all is good with the world.
 

The Atomic Irishman

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Oct 11, 2009
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Mrkittycat said:
I was surfing the web and I found a lot of hate of the level "No Russian" in MW2. Why is it such a big deal? All your doing is mowing down innocent pixels. That's all you do in GTA, so why is it so bad in Call of Duty? Is it because this series has never done anything like this before? Discuss
Many are stille big over 9/11 as said above. Also, very rarely is a level this well thought out and executed in this manner. GTAIV is much more random and stereo typical than what MW2 does. It makes many feel 'targeted.'
 

captainordo

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It hits a bit to close to home for many people. Some parts of the seen are very close terrorist seens shown on the news.
 

Littlee300

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Cmwissy said:
People need to look at the unbelievably smart thing Infinity Ward did with that level.

*cue Peter Molyneux voice* People really connect with the game world - they feel bad if they hurt an innocent; and they want revenge when someone does something nasty.

The whole level was supposed to be an emotional and moral experience; and it was an amazing moral experience - perhaps too emotional for some people.
Exactly i wanted revenge, i put 30 clips into the guy and he was still alive, and then I realized I will have to wait till end of level to die, and at end of game I never got to kill him /:
I feel cheated because when i saw 10 cops lined up I wanted to help cops because i realized we be dead before we escape especially if they bring in a attack helicopter, but then i slapped sense into myself and realized it was just a game
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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grimhammer said:
Indeed it's about context. The no russian mission is there to show how far your CO is willing to go in order to stop a major arms dealer and terrorist. Would you kill 10 people to save thousands? Would you kill hundreds to save 10, 20, 30 thousands, where do you draw the line? It very clearly defines shepherd's personality.
For what it's worth, I think this is the best argument for its existence -- It acts as foreshadowing to Shepherd's character turns. But even then, there's no reason this couldn't have been done better. It does not earn its shock position.

I want to stress this: I'm not offended at the violence. I was intrigued and excited at the idea of a game putting you in these kind of morally difficult situations. I thought Splinter Cell: Double Agent was brilliant in this way too, and thought it should have gone an even harder line. (I shot Lambert, BTW.) What offends me is Infinity Ward's lousy execution on the concept. And when you're going to do something like this, you need to bring your A-game.