Poll: will there ever be a "good" console RTS?

[Anton P. Nym]

People said that the FPS couldn't make it to the console world, and then Goldeneye came out... it's all in how you adapt the game to the interface and/or the interface to the game. That's why I voted "eventually"; someone's going to find the right balance at some point in time.

I too have high hopes that Ensemble will make a breakthrough with Halo Wars, but I do intend to try before buying to make sure.

-- Steve

 

[Kukakkau]

i would prefer a halo 4 just to see what that planet master chief was flying towards at the end of the legendary missions

if they even think of a halo 4 i will kill them. plus it would be "what happened?? you slipped and hit your head in the shower. the war is still at the beginning"

wiimote might be good for an rts but since they seem to have screwed up most games (i had one dont argue) id say no RTS stick to PC even though mine cant run anything well

 

[Pyro Paul]

will there every be a Good RTS game on console?

no... not really. the best consoles will get is when they dumb down the game play to its basics, which will mean that the Strategy in the game will dissolve into nothing but spamming, blobbing, zerging, and swarming.

 

[Remag]

I would imagine that the only requirements necessary to make a console RTS game the equivalent of a PC RTS game would include a mouse designed to work with the console, a keyboard designed to work with the console, and a television tray.

Or would that be breaking the spirit of console gaming?

Indeed, one could argue that one wouldn't necessarily need a full keyboard, but rather, a highly condensed simulacrum capable of utilzing RTS staples such as control groups and quick keys, being small enough to occupy less space on said TV tray (after all, communication with any team members could much more efficiency be accomplished via voice chat, so there wouldn't really be too much need for typed communication).

 

[Death916]

well halo wars will most liely be good

and c&c 3 was pretty good to me for a console rts

 

[Joeshie]

People said that the FPS couldn't make it to the console world, and then Goldeneye came out... it's all in how you adapt the game to the interface and/or the interface to the game. That's why I voted "eventually"; someone's going to find the right balance at some point in time.

I too have high hopes that Ensemble will make a breakthrough with Halo Wars, but I do intend to try before buying to make sure.

-- Steve

Pretty much right here.

It's just a matter of time before a dev dumbs down an RTS enough so that it will work on a console.

 

[JakubK666]

People said that the FPS couldn't make it to the console world, and then Goldeneye came out... it's all in how you adapt the game to the interface and/or the interface to the game. That's why I voted "eventually"; someone's going to find the right balance at some point in time.

I too have high hopes that Ensemble will make a breakthrough with Halo Wars, but I do intend to try before buying to make sure.

-- Steve

Pretty much right here.

It's just a matter of time before a dev dumbs down an RTS enough so that it will work on a console.

PC Elitist,PC Elitist!

Too bad you're damn right

 

[Kiytan]

i think it boils down to the same reason a lot of games dont work on consoles, just not enough buttons.

 

[ReepNeep]

As long as they fix the interface trouble of not having a real pointing device. Say, if they put one on the ps3 that required a mouse and keyboard. The Wii would be a good platform for this but I can't really see someone making one considering the Wii's primary user base. It will happen eventually. Most likely in the next console generation when MKB support will be a standard feature.

Also, Command and Conquer games work ok on a console because the game is pretty damn simple to begin with. You don't have to give your troops detailed instructions because you can't. Imagine playing Company of Heroes on the Xbox. *shudders*

And Kiytan, the real issue isn't the number of buttons. Its the fact that are traditionally mouse driven. They need a pointing device thats faster and more precise than those runty joysticks.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Eventually. The Wiimote actually holds a lot of promise as far as RTSs are concerned, and to be honest, I think its very feasible, just as it was very feasible to put FPSs on them, it just requires a new level of technology. I suspect the Wiimote has an advantage over the competition there thanks to its point-and-click methodology, though it is also possible someone could figure out some intuitive way to use the PS3's two joysticks and dozen buttons to hash together a decent interface. It'd probably not be much like Starcraft and more like a non-turn-based TRPG but, whatever, I'm sure it is doable.

 

[Anarchemitis]

Eventually. Who's with me in time-travelling to then, by way of the great Belgian chocolate explosion of 1913?

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

There will be a good console RTS once a console can run RTS games the way they were supposed to be played, the 360 has trouble with Universe at War, and from what I've been hearing about Supcom for 360, it's gonna be very "gimped", and devs are doing this all for the sake of having "next gen" graphics - and EndWar and Halo Wars have the "Controls" down for consoles, but, control isn't the problem with console RTS, it's the gameplay, will WiC be as large scale and fast paced on the 360? Probably not, it's a safe bet, because if the 360 has trouble running universe at war, then WiC is gonna be tough to play as well...


Also, I'd just like to say this a bit louder - CONTROL ISN'T THE PROBLEM WITH CONSOLE RTS! IT'S THE GAMES BEING GIMPED (such as scale of levels and amount of units) JUST FOR THE SAKE OF GRAPHICS AND ASSUMING THAT CONSOLE GAMERS (like Yahtzee says) ARE SYPHILITIC LEPERS WHO ARE JUST "CASUAL" USERS. [/capslock]

To answer the question - YES there will be good console RTS games, but, they still won't be as good as the PC versions.

 

[ReepNeep]

There will be a good console RTS once a console can run RTS games the way they were supposed to be played, the 360 has trouble with Universe at War, and from what I've been hearing about Supcom for 360, it's gonna be very "gimped", and devs are doing this all for the sake of having "next gen" graphics - and EndWar and Halo Wars have the "Controls" down for consoles, but, control isn't the problem with console RTS, it's the gameplay, will WiC be as large scale and fast paced on the 360? Probably not, it's a safe bet, because if the 360 has trouble running universe at war, then WiC is gonna be tough to play as well...


Also, I'd just like to say this a bit louder - CONTROL ISN'T THE PROBLEM WITH CONSOLE RTS! IT'S THE GAMES BEING GIMPED (such as scale of levels and amount of units) JUST FOR THE SAKE OF GRAPHICS AND ASSUMING THAT CONSOLE GAMERS (like Yahtzee says) ARE SYPHILITIC LEPERS WHO ARE JUST "CASUAL" USERS. [/capslock]

To answer the question - YES there will be good console RTS games, but, they still won't be as good as the PC versions.

The games are simplified specifically because more complex ones are difficult to control without a mouse. This is not about developers assuming that their customers are slightly simple. This is not about shiny graphics. In fact, how shiny graphics are has next to nothing with the game's potential complexity.

Let me ask you this ElArab: have you ever played xwing or tiefighter? Those games were flight sims and therefore nigh unplayable with anything but a joystick. One of the features they added was the ability to navigate the menus with said controller(the interface was similar to an old point-and-click adventure game and was really meant for a mouse). Simply put: it sucked. It was incredibly clumsy, slow, and unresponsive. I eventually added my mouse drivers to the autoexec.bat on the boot disk I was using just so I could use the mouse in the menus.

Games designed for a mouse driven interface control horribly with a joystick(analogue stick). This is all about the difficulty of controlling the game, nothing more.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

The games are simplified specifically because more complex ones are difficult to control without a mouse. This is not about developers assuming that their customers are slightly simple. This is not about shiny graphics. In fact, how shiny graphics are has next to nothing with the game's potential complexity.

Let me ask you this ElArab: have you ever played xwing or tiefighter? Those games were flight sims and therefore nigh unplayable with anything but a joystick. One of the features they added was the ability to navigate the menus with said controller(the interface was similar to an old point-and-click adventure game and was really meant for a mouse). Simply put: it sucked. It was incredibly clumsy, slow, and unresponsive. I eventually added my mouse drivers to the autoexec.bat on the boot disk I was using just so I could use the mouse in the menus.

Games designed for a mouse driven interface control horribly with a joystick(analogue stick). This is all about the difficulty of controlling the game, nothing more.

I agree AND disagree with you, mainly because yes, games designed to be used with the mouse and keyboard, aren't gonna be so good with a controller (or games designed with joystick, etc.) - but in this "gen" everyone still wants to have "next-gen" looking graphics, that's why some games will have big open worlds, but it will have a lot of loading times, and blurry backgrounds to mask it, and some games feel "chlaustrophobic" but have extremely detailed graphics - and lots of multiplayer games have less players because the console can't handle anymore, and games like TF2 really suck with only 16 player limit, I'm glad Frontlines managed to put around 50 players on there.

-but, flight sims on consoles like Ace Combat did great with a controller, and from what I've seen with Halo Wars, control doesn't seem like it will be the problem in that game, same goes to End War.

So yeah, I'm not saying that control isn't a problem, just not the MAIN problem.

EDIT: Here is dev. Mark Rein talking about why they have to simplify the market for "Casuals" who he practically thinks are Handicaps. [http://spong.com/article/14406/Mark_Rein_Why_Is_Unreal_Tournament_3_Slower_on_PlayStation_3_/?d=200712051702&cb=986]

 

[Kmodo42]

I just dont see the RTS's working well on consoles. Ever. Not that someone couldnt figure out a way to make it work decently, its just that everything you could do on a console you could do on a pc, and probably easier. Voice command, motion controls, virtual helmets and hitler podiums and whatever the hell else

 

[esposch]

The wiimote can function like a mouse, but hotkeys will be limited to 1 and 2. It could work if they were REALLY clever, though.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

hitler podiums and whatever the hell else

Awesome game concept right there! A propaganda game, where you have to always convince your nation to blindly follow you and never know the truth.

Put it on the Wii and we may get some great future leaders!

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

The wiimote can function like a mouse, but hotkeys will be limited to 1 and 2. It could work if they were REALLY clever, though.

Yeah like, how many times you rapidly press 1 and 2, or combining them with d-pad in certain ways could help.

Also, I just got a blu-tooth adapter for my computer, could I use a Wiimote with games? -or would I have to get some kind of program or emulator from Nintendos site?

It would be interesting to play crysis with a wii zapper...

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Starlancer (not that it is a RTS) on the Dreamcast did an admirable job of cramming all of the necessary controls and hot keys onto a single controller by using the d-pad directions as a button modifier. Sure it may have been "dumbed down" a little but it was still a barrel-full of fun; and that's what I use to measure a game. If the controls are masterful but the game is as entertaining as a three hour evening of bingo down at the society for the deaf and short of sight then it's going to count for squat really.

 

[mark_n_b]

"will there ever be" questions are kind of silly that way. The answer is almost always yes. Will there ever be a good RTS strategy game for this current gen of consoles? Maybe, Maybe not (the current console market is gimped when put up against the PC market)

Will console RTS ever be as sophisticated, deep, and of the same quality of PC RTS's?

Is there even a reason to delve into the RTS market as a console developper? This is probably the most interesting variation of the question in my opinion.