Poll: Windows 8
- Thread starter Total LOLige
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It's good for tablets, and that's about it.
I don't want my computer to be a juiced-up smarphone.
Also it has the shitty Microsoft store or whatever it's called, and you can't remove it from your computer.
I don't want my computer to be a juiced-up smarphone.
Also it has the shitty Microsoft store or whatever it's called, and you can't remove it from your computer.
All these people suggesting third party customisations like ClassicShell and Oblytile are missing the point - why the fuck should anybody have to?! Yes, a technically savvy person can find their way around things with a bit of traipsing around, and add a shortcut to the desktop (where, despite Microsoft's best efforts, most people are still spending the vast majority of their computer time) to jump straight to "shutdown -s -t 0". But the majority of end users simply don't have that savvy (I still have to explain that shutdown command to our technicians at work). We've had people in before who don't even know how to turn a computer on, never mind digging around to turn it off again. It's been in the same place for fifteen years. And yes, it is totally possible to use a computer for fifteen years and still have no idea how the thing works.
The whole thing feels like Microsoft being unable to make its damn mind up. What possible reason is there for Windows 8 to ship with a desktop-based traditional Internet Explorer browser as well as the new style full screen IE app? Why do I have to go to Charms / Settings / Change PC Settings / Users to change my password, but Desktop / Charms / Settings / Control Panel / Users to change my username?
In a spectacular piece of irony, the cause of all these problems turns out to be the desktop (sorry, Legacy Mode). Microsoft had no choice but to include legacy support for enterprise users; when there's still a buttload of businesses out there running Windows XP and a just as big selection of bespoke software, they simply can't afford to toss that market in the bin. Windows 8 intends to have you use the Start Screen as "home base", as it were; the default place where you launch your apps from. You're not meant to use the desktop at all. You're only meant to be using apps. Then the Charms Bar will come into its strength and the intended unity of architecture will bear its fruit - the way the content of the Settings charm changes from app to app is actually kinda cool. But they've still got the safe, familiar desktop, and that's the first thing that everybody leaps to; partly for older software, partly because it looks and feels better and more comfortable, and partly because even Microsoft don't seem convinced by what they've created.
I mean, take Office 2013. (Or "Office 365", even.) After you've gone through the ridiculous "sign up for a Microsoft account" bollocks that blatantly only exists as a data mining exercise (I get the appeal of the keycard serial entry, but the forced signup is terrible), and gone through their installer wotsit, you get a bunch of tiles on the Start Screen. Fair enough. And what happens when you click one of them? It jumps into Legacy Mode and runs it from the desktop. Their latest flagship software fails to make use of the capabilities of their latest flagship OS. Utter, utter failure. Yes, backwards compatability and all that - it's designed to run on Windows 7 as well - but surely the program should be smart enough to detect that it's on a Windows 8 machine and use its features? The desktop is actually the worst place to jump off from in navigating Windows 8, in its current form.
Of course, there is a version of Office 2013 and Windows 8 that does away with these issues; it doesn't have a desktop available at all so its hands aren't tied by the need to support legacy software. It's entirely app-driven so it can make the most of the new features. And it's even got an app version of Office. Windows RT. FOR FUCKING TABLETS.
The whole thing feels like Microsoft being unable to make its damn mind up. What possible reason is there for Windows 8 to ship with a desktop-based traditional Internet Explorer browser as well as the new style full screen IE app? Why do I have to go to Charms / Settings / Change PC Settings / Users to change my password, but Desktop / Charms / Settings / Control Panel / Users to change my username?
In a spectacular piece of irony, the cause of all these problems turns out to be the desktop (sorry, Legacy Mode). Microsoft had no choice but to include legacy support for enterprise users; when there's still a buttload of businesses out there running Windows XP and a just as big selection of bespoke software, they simply can't afford to toss that market in the bin. Windows 8 intends to have you use the Start Screen as "home base", as it were; the default place where you launch your apps from. You're not meant to use the desktop at all. You're only meant to be using apps. Then the Charms Bar will come into its strength and the intended unity of architecture will bear its fruit - the way the content of the Settings charm changes from app to app is actually kinda cool. But they've still got the safe, familiar desktop, and that's the first thing that everybody leaps to; partly for older software, partly because it looks and feels better and more comfortable, and partly because even Microsoft don't seem convinced by what they've created.
I mean, take Office 2013. (Or "Office 365", even.) After you've gone through the ridiculous "sign up for a Microsoft account" bollocks that blatantly only exists as a data mining exercise (I get the appeal of the keycard serial entry, but the forced signup is terrible), and gone through their installer wotsit, you get a bunch of tiles on the Start Screen. Fair enough. And what happens when you click one of them? It jumps into Legacy Mode and runs it from the desktop. Their latest flagship software fails to make use of the capabilities of their latest flagship OS. Utter, utter failure. Yes, backwards compatability and all that - it's designed to run on Windows 7 as well - but surely the program should be smart enough to detect that it's on a Windows 8 machine and use its features? The desktop is actually the worst place to jump off from in navigating Windows 8, in its current form.
Of course, there is a version of Office 2013 and Windows 8 that does away with these issues; it doesn't have a desktop available at all so its hands aren't tied by the need to support legacy software. It's entirely app-driven so it can make the most of the new features. And it's even got an app version of Office. Windows RT. FOR FUCKING TABLETS.
Not to mention there are plenty of modifications and hacks you can use, both free and paid for, that boot to desktop and add in a strt menu.Total LOLige said:
Anyway: I dislike the modern UI thing, it's not efficient or effective in a desktop environment, nor are the "charms" or the corner thing. None of them are as efficient as the standard start menu for a normal desktop. Whilst they probably work wonders in the tablet space or tablet/notebook hybrids they're no fun for a desktop or a more powerful laptop.
Windows 8 is however more efficient with resources, faster in a lot of applications (including a lot of games, though it's minimal), comes with powerful and helpful search tools and has revamped file browsers (U is back, but they kept the windows 7 method for choice, this I like) and task management options that make it's desktop environment mostly pleasant to use. The modern UI, charms and other garbage just detract from what would otherwise be a good experience.
Hopefully 8.1 will fix a lot of it by giving you more choice to work in whatever environment you happen to prefer.
I recently bought a new laptop and it cam with Windows 8. I gave it a chance, but I can't stand it in a major way, so I'm currently (as in at the present moment...) doing a roll back to Windows 7. Good thing I've got my techie brother on hand because I've never done this before.
To be honest, I wasn't exactly crazy about 7 when it came out, but compared to 8 it's incredible.
To be honest, I wasn't exactly crazy about 7 when it came out, but compared to 8 it's incredible.
The problem is that MS was late for the whole tablet and smartphone show and Win8 is their attempt to catch up while completely leaving back their traditional PC user base. Win8 should have been called Windows Mobile 8, Windows Touch or whatever. But presenting it as an upgrade from traditional Win7 is simply stupid and unnecessary.
If they want to snatch a piece of the mobile and tablet markets, that is fine with me. But they shouldn't even try to market that PoS to pc users (via "upgrades", OEM, limitations in new directx etc.)
If they want to snatch a piece of the mobile and tablet markets, that is fine with me. But they shouldn't even try to market that PoS to pc users (via "upgrades", OEM, limitations in new directx etc.)
Found it a bit annoying at the beginning. Then I realized you can just start typing your program name in at the tile screen to instantly search and just hit enter after 3 or 4 letters to start it, making it a billion times more efficient then the old menu.
-sees start menu-
-goes running for cover-
I'll come out when it's just a button and a pop-up list again! DO NOT WANT! It reminds me too much of the Xbox Dashboard and god knows how much I hate the Xbox Dashboard...
I think I'll stick to Windows 7 until I absolutely have to change. Or if they fix that...wierd, app layout thing..seriously, that belongs on a phone. Not a PC with a precise mouse pointer.
-goes running for cover-
I'll come out when it's just a button and a pop-up list again! DO NOT WANT! It reminds me too much of the Xbox Dashboard and god knows how much I hate the Xbox Dashboard...
I think I'll stick to Windows 7 until I absolutely have to change. Or if they fix that...wierd, app layout thing..seriously, that belongs on a phone. Not a PC with a precise mouse pointer.
Find the updates yourself don't let windows update do anything, I had this for like six months where I couldn't get SP1 for 7 because the updater was trying to install the wrong version of it and it crashed my PC every time I attempted it, and googling the issues turned up no answers until one day I found a manual download buried in Microsofts atrociously unhelpful service site.Evil Smurf said:
Also windows 7 doesn't have the up command in the file browser, that always annoyed me. And getting to the lower levels of the OS is much harder than it was in XP. Not a big deal most of the time, but it's irritating if you want to fix something by a more traditional method.
It's amazing how many people hate it because of what certain people have said to the public (e.g. notch) or the old so called trend of every 2nd release is good.
The truth of the matter is Windows 8 is great,
- It boots faster
- It runs faster
- It uses the same maybe uses less ram than 7 (tends to hover slightly less on mine)
- There is no difference in gaming (well 1-2fps usually, but are you really going to claim it's worse over 1-2fps? really?)
- Compatibility is more or less the same, the only thing I've found that doesn't work is SQL Server 08, but I doubt many of you will have that.
The general performance is more or less better in every way, this is one of several articles claiming this; http://usabilitygeek.com/windows-8-vs-windows-7-speed-and-performance-testing/
Yes there is the downfall of no start menu but the Metro system actually does work quite well (even though i'm not a big fan), you can organise it anyway you like (even delete the icons). The only reason it seems like Windows 8 is hated is because of the loud mouthed crowd (but that's the same with anything, the loudest are always heard)
The truth of the matter is Windows 8 is great,
- It boots faster
- It runs faster
- It uses the same maybe uses less ram than 7 (tends to hover slightly less on mine)
- There is no difference in gaming (well 1-2fps usually, but are you really going to claim it's worse over 1-2fps? really?)
- Compatibility is more or less the same, the only thing I've found that doesn't work is SQL Server 08, but I doubt many of you will have that.
The general performance is more or less better in every way, this is one of several articles claiming this; http://usabilitygeek.com/windows-8-vs-windows-7-speed-and-performance-testing/
Yes there is the downfall of no start menu but the Metro system actually does work quite well (even though i'm not a big fan), you can organise it anyway you like (even delete the icons). The only reason it seems like Windows 8 is hated is because of the loud mouthed crowd (but that's the same with anything, the loudest are always heard)
Basically, I only use it on my ExoPC Slate and it has its bad moments on that thingy: freezes in Chrome until I switch to desktop or open the right-side menu, it seldom decides to ignore me when I want to switch tabs or go back, explorer freezes on me when I browse my external HDD, crap like that, but it just makes me want to throw the plastic thing in the wall, no biggie. Performance-wise I guess it's good on decent hardware, but it looks like shit. If I wanted bland colours and boxes I would use 98 or something. I like my W7 gloss and shine, what can I say.
The UI and backwards compatibility are the reasons I don't intend to upgrade to Win 8 any time soon.
By the way, did you know that the latest Windows Server uses the Modern UI? And since corporations are wary of "hacks", their employees have to make do with that monstrocity. Of course, noone is crazy enough to buy a touchscreen monitor for a server.
By the way, did you know that the latest Windows Server uses the Modern UI? And since corporations are wary of "hacks", their employees have to make do with that monstrocity. Of course, noone is crazy enough to buy a touchscreen monitor for a server.
Why is "it boots faster" always mentioned as if it was a big fucking deal? Even if Win8 boots twice as fast as Win7 (for which you'd have to have a horribly bloated Win7) that saves what, 30 seconds once a day? Who cares? And if you switch your machine on and off so many times that it matters, for fucks sake, don't shut it down, put it into sleep mode. Bam, wake up takes 10 seconds now, problem solved.
Although Win8 is really just a continuing trend for MS. The ribbons in office are a fucking disgrace too. The big market for Windows have always been people doing actual work on a PC, not casuals or gamers. And if you're trying to get things done, efficiency matters a lot more than how easy it is to teach to a dyslexic monkey. No company is happy if their software shaves off a little bit of the one-time training time required to teach people how to use it, but on the back-end makes every task everybody is performing take a little longer. That adds up very quickly. Just picture, if the interface only costs an additional 5 minutes per worker per day because it's slower, pick a 100 employee company and they've got to hire an additional full-time worker just to make up for that. Not to mention that most people don't actually need to be taught how to use common software by the employer while on the other hand a major software change means now everybody in the company has to relearn everything.
"Easy to understand" may be a major selling point for Apple because they're selling to casuals, but what MS customers want is "efficient to get work done".
And that's leaving aside the security issues. Sure, you might not be worried about MS finding your porn collection on your home PC. How do you think IBM feels about MS snooping on their company secrets that way?
With Win8, MS has been aiming squarely at their own feet with a bloody cannon, trying to steal customers from Apple and Google most of which are not going to even consider it out of brand loyalty, and at the same time producing a product that's a huge fuck-you to all the people who've been loyal MS customers for years. (Sort of like DMC recently
)
Although Win8 is really just a continuing trend for MS. The ribbons in office are a fucking disgrace too. The big market for Windows have always been people doing actual work on a PC, not casuals or gamers. And if you're trying to get things done, efficiency matters a lot more than how easy it is to teach to a dyslexic monkey. No company is happy if their software shaves off a little bit of the one-time training time required to teach people how to use it, but on the back-end makes every task everybody is performing take a little longer. That adds up very quickly. Just picture, if the interface only costs an additional 5 minutes per worker per day because it's slower, pick a 100 employee company and they've got to hire an additional full-time worker just to make up for that. Not to mention that most people don't actually need to be taught how to use common software by the employer while on the other hand a major software change means now everybody in the company has to relearn everything.
"Easy to understand" may be a major selling point for Apple because they're selling to casuals, but what MS customers want is "efficient to get work done".
And that's leaving aside the security issues. Sure, you might not be worried about MS finding your porn collection on your home PC. How do you think IBM feels about MS snooping on their company secrets that way?
With Win8, MS has been aiming squarely at their own feet with a bloody cannon, trying to steal customers from Apple and Google most of which are not going to even consider it out of brand loyalty, and at the same time producing a product that's a huge fuck-you to all the people who've been loyal MS customers for years. (Sort of like DMC recently
)Wouldn't help anyway. Touch-screens do not work in vertical, google "Gorilla Arm".DonTsetsi said:
Not really. It might be a performance upgrade but with an OS that's, especially for the vast majority of users, an almost negligible thing. What matters more is usability and in that regard Windows 8 is an utter failure. This review words the usability issues pretty well, though it probably exaggerates certain things:devotedsniper said:
Honestly, can't stand it.
Right now, the devices I tend to use are running OSX, Vista, 7 and Android.
While I'll admit that I haven't had a lot of experience in the depths of 8's hell, the time I have spent has been used for getting the bloody thing to work. One particular task (I can't remember exactly what it was) takes 30 seconds or so in 7 and not much longer in Vista. I ended up hammering away (almost literally) at 8 for over half an hour.
It's a terrible interface and for me, 8 effortlessly beats Vista down from it's high spot on the list of OS's to avoid.
Right now, the devices I tend to use are running OSX, Vista, 7 and Android.
While I'll admit that I haven't had a lot of experience in the depths of 8's hell, the time I have spent has been used for getting the bloody thing to work. One particular task (I can't remember exactly what it was) takes 30 seconds or so in 7 and not much longer in Vista. I ended up hammering away (almost literally) at 8 for over half an hour.
It's a terrible interface and for me, 8 effortlessly beats Vista down from it's high spot on the list of OS's to avoid.
Speaking as someone who occasionally has to do stand-in tech support duty (sideline of a role as an AV tech), I've had to try and fix one Win8 machine so far.
And it was just THE most massive pain in the balls.
All we were trying to do was turn the Wifi on, and be certain that it WAS on. We eventually managed to make a light turn on and off, but a red one, and we were sure it was supposed to be green. The eventual fix was to cold-restart the thing, which involved removing the battery (otherwise selecting "shut down" just made it sleep instead). That was an Acer somethingorother, less than a year old.
And the only Win8 machine we've had for departmental testing use - an Asus Transformer - crashed, HARD, whilst I was drawing something in MS Paint, requiring a master reset before it would do anything other than sleep and wake (touchscreen, keyboard, trackpad all had no effect). Which, guess what, involved removing the battery. Somewhere inamongst doing that, the drivers (which were displaying BOTH "not installed" and "fully working" depending where you looked) managed to get themselves straightened out and start responding again.
Just for that, I'm going to make damn sure that my next computer, even if it is (as I hope) a touch-sensor model, has the "Windows 7 downgrade" option ticked. I'm sick enough of my phone exhibiting that kind of behaviour, I can't deal with my PC doing the same. I'm the one in charge, damn it.
And it was just THE most massive pain in the balls.
All we were trying to do was turn the Wifi on, and be certain that it WAS on. We eventually managed to make a light turn on and off, but a red one, and we were sure it was supposed to be green. The eventual fix was to cold-restart the thing, which involved removing the battery (otherwise selecting "shut down" just made it sleep instead). That was an Acer somethingorother, less than a year old.
And the only Win8 machine we've had for departmental testing use - an Asus Transformer - crashed, HARD, whilst I was drawing something in MS Paint, requiring a master reset before it would do anything other than sleep and wake (touchscreen, keyboard, trackpad all had no effect). Which, guess what, involved removing the battery. Somewhere inamongst doing that, the drivers (which were displaying BOTH "not installed" and "fully working" depending where you looked) managed to get themselves straightened out and start responding again.
Just for that, I'm going to make damn sure that my next computer, even if it is (as I hope) a touch-sensor model, has the "Windows 7 downgrade" option ticked. I'm sick enough of my phone exhibiting that kind of behaviour, I can't deal with my PC doing the same. I'm the one in charge, damn it.
I still use 7, but my brother has 8, and I do not like it. Only used it briefly, but it didn;t seem to have a good UI at all. It looks like it was specifically designed for tablets. I also seem to remember many adverts, which irritated me.
I haven't played around with it much but I watched my coworker swear at it for a week. He's not very tech savvy so it really fucked with him. From the get-go, it doesn't look all that keyboard/mouse friendly, but I'm sure with some customization (you can customize the UI, right?) it could work great. Kinda like how the key mappings for a bad PC game port suck shit or how Samsung pre-loads the GS3 with a bunch of useless shit?