Poll: Would you harbor a nazi?

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TheLaofKazi

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ravensheart18 said:
In the example, "he was an officer".

This isn't a grunt, he has responsibilty.

And to my mind you can't be reabilitated until you have paid for your crimes. After that we can talk.

And let me say I'm disgusted by the 10 people so far that would protect him. You obviously have never talked to someone with a number tattoed on their arm.
Making people pay for their crimes does absolutely nothing about something that already happened, or to improve the situation. It can often be counterproductive to solving the issue.

Sure, I can understand the desire to enact justice on someone for harming others, I have the desire to as well, it's in our nature. But seeking revenge on people for wronging you or anyone else (and that's basically what unproductive punishment is, an attempt to return the pain), just seems pointless to me.

Instead of focusing our energy on being violent and harsh to someone who has already been violent, harsh and terribly inhumane, we should focus our energy on actually bettering the lives of others, and preventing these kinds of things from happening again. What happened has already happened, you can't change it.

I can't remember the name of it, but I recall reading about a documentary about holocaust victims that went on a mental, emotional and physical journey to overcome what happened to them at the concentration camps. One of the important steps was coming to peace with what happened, removing the contempt for their heart, and moving on to try and find happiness. That doesn't mean saying those officers did nothing wrong, but it does mean forgiving them, but not forgetting. And that doesn't mean you stop doing things that prevent atrocities like this from happening again.
 

CarpathianMuffin

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Jun 7, 2010
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Jedihunter4 said:
CarpathianMuffin said:
Unless it's affected me directly, I'm willing to not let past mistakes, no matter how grievous, go, as long as the person who committed said acts is fully repentant.
Well that's hipocrasy at its very best, its not been done to you so fuck its all forgiven! Its a good attitude to have, can you tell me where you live an I'll come over murder your family an steal all your worldly possessions, cause I know that I can always repent an find some idiot to take me in!
It's not all forgiven. I just don't tend to take past actions into consideration when it comes to judging someone, provided they've repented. Doesn't mean I'd ever fully trust them.
Never said it wasn't hypocritical, but it's exactly what I'd do. Though I easily see why someone would kill the man right there or turn him over, I'm just not like that. And I see I'm not alone here.
 

Drake_Dercon

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Jedihunter4 said:
Christ man do you intend to try and take everything I say in the wrong way? A large part of what I said was directed at you, as in the stuff I did't say, that was not aimed at you! I just thought that it would be clear not all of it was aimed at you ie you did't mention dr who so why would that be directed at you.

I'll make sure to take note of your name, so I know not to bother posting in any of your topics cause you seem compleatly determined to take offence or take everything too literally. Your either looking for an argument, young an trying to act older than you are, or too slow for me to be wasting my time with.

Seriously what did I do to piss you off? Is it cause I don't agree with you? or because I did't lavish praise on you for the topic? I mean it raised a lot of discussion sure, but personal I think anyone who thinks being sorry for something like the holocaust justify getting away with it has obviously lived a very sheltered life with no real tragedy let alone can comprehend the horrors of something like that, an as such not really worth discussion. But no I did't come out like that an just shut you down, tried to put my view across an discuss an all you've done is reply with smarmy pumped up remarks like your some sort of authority upon the world.

Two words, Time waster.
Thanks.

I wasn't trying to cause offence or take any. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

My goal was really just to ask that you note that you're not addressing me. I tend to take quotes in that way, so if part of your post was speaking to the posters as a group, I'd just like you to remember to note that in your post so that I or someone else doesn't become confused. I'm sorry if that was insulting.

This in particular, though seemed a bit rage-y.

I can apologize a million times, but I doubt it will do much. This is my posting format. It sounds really fucking pretentious. I use it so that I don't sound blunt, it's how I write all the time. I find that if I write in other ways, it becomes even more insulting, so I'm sorry that I can't do much about it.

Saying sorry every time I might be offensive is the best I can do.

I'm not looking for an argument, nor do I think I came off sounding angry (I checked it, am I really that oblivious to my own tone?). I do think that if you take issue with it (or the thread itself), you should make that clear from the get-go.

personal I think anyone who thinks being sorry for something like the holocaust justify getting away with it has obviously lived a very sheltered life with no real tragedy let alone can comprehend the horrors of something like that, an as such not really worth discussion. But no I did't come out like that an just shut you down, tried to put my view across an discuss
Here is my purpose. This is a guy that may well have been very into it from the beginning. You don't really know what he did, just that he was involved in deaths. He returns and lives most of the rest of his life trying to make up for it. I put this situation to public opinion (personally, I would get him to turn himself in, anything less is a lack of admittance of wrongdoing) because I wanted to know what the escapist thought about a similar train of thought to a discussion I had earlier. From a logical perspective, a lifetime of remediation should serve the same purpose as a lifetime in prison, being remediated. That's what I left to people to decide for themselves.

Though just for knowledge's sake, what would you consider real tragedy? Have you actually lived it? I don't consider any act a pardon for the attempted extermination of an entire faith, but my perspective on justice and the carrying out of said justice may well differ from yours.

Finally, after a post that was far too long: what you called a reply was not a reply directly to me, it was a reply to the thread. I take a quote to mean that you are addressing my statement specifically and as such take issue with it. As above, please make mention of your intent so that "slow people" do not become confused (I was inclined to use idiots there, but I should probably try to say exactly what I mean from now on).
 

dagens24

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I wouldn't harbor him because who am I to play judge and jury? He should stand for his crimes in a court of law and be judged by a jury of his peers. If they find it innocent; so be it. If they find him guilty; so be it.
 

Kakashi on crack

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Aug 5, 2009
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Do you know why no one talked about what had happened in WW2 on the nazi Germany side? Because in all honesty a lot of them were ashamed at what they had done, and didn't want to think about it.

The fact that people are willing admit to their crimes, and are ashamed of them is enough for me. I'd help him. Mind you I'd tell him he needs to accept what he's done and find some way to repay his debt to society, but I'd help him.
 

Kortney

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Nov 2, 2009
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I'd call the police straight away. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Whilst he may be a pleasant man and even someone I get along with, he still has to answer for his crimes. If he truly was sorry he would turn himself in.
 

spacecowboy86

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Jan 7, 2010
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I would spare the guy. Isn't the point of punishment to emphasize the repracussion of your actions for people who can't realize the pain they've caused naturally? If the person already knows they've done horrible wrong and can never take it back, isn't that punishment enough to ensure they never abuse another human being again?

It seems to me like sending him to jail would be just like beating a dying, suffering horse. By commiting such an act, are we better than the man we just condemned?
 

TheLaofKazi

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Mar 20, 2010
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ravensheart18 said:
I will then ask you the question I've asked others who think we should let it go...

A catholic pedophile priest that has raped dozens of little boys and girls later regrets it and at 80 when he is caught after 50 years of being a perfect citizen, do you let him go?
Personally, I would let him go, provided that I feel he wouldn't go out and harm people, and after 50 years of being a good person, he probably wouldn't.

I think this person put things into simpler words for me:

CarpathianMuffin said:
It's not all forgiven. I just don't tend to take past actions into consideration when it comes to judging someone, provided they've repented. Doesn't mean I'd ever fully trust them.
Never said it wasn't hypocritical, but it's exactly what I'd do. Though I easily see why someone would kill the man right there or turn him over, I'm just not like that. And I see I'm not alone here.
Kind of the same view I guess.

Let me kind of revise my opinion a bit, and say that it is my personal, moral opinion and the action I would take based on my own, personal outlook on life. It's just as equally wrong, and right as any other one out there. Morality is like that. Which means that we can argue about this forever and ever, and not really get anywhere. Sometimes I forget that.
 

Nouw

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Mar 18, 2009
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It is the 'right' thing to do so I would take him in.

Although I may heavily regret it >.>
 

LiudvikasT

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Jan 21, 2011
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Jedihunter4 said:
LiudvikasT said:
ravensheart18 said:
LiudvikasT said:
I don't trust justice system, he can be hitler himself and I wouldn't tell police anything.

Not to mention justice system is meant to protect the population, not to punish (at least it should be). If he's remorseful, then there's no need to imprison him.
Then I'll ask you as well to answer my question... Would you also protect the 80 year old ex-pedophile priest who had abused, and possibly even murdered, dozens or even hundreds of little boys and girls but who is now deepl remorseful and hasn't hurt fly in 50 years?
I would protect anyone who I was sure felt remorseful. If they are remorseful then they won't repeat the crime, therefore no need to imprison them.
Then as I said to someone else, can you tell me where you live an I'll pump my self up force myself to come over murder your family an steal all your worldly possessions, cause I know that I can always repent, then perhaps we can become friends and come to find the whole thing funny in time!

I mean screw the basic morals of doing bad things have a consequence like every 5 year old learns, I mean fck the prison system and making victims feel happy with a sense of justice, lets all just say sorry and go play in the candy floss forest with father Christmas! I mean the idea of punishing those who have done wrong has essentially held our society together since the stone age and stopped us descending into hell on earth, but screw it lets try something new! I'm gunna go torch an orphanage now, rob a bank and shit on a baby cause I know I'll probably feel bad about it in the morning, so it will all be all right!

Thank you for showing me the light I don't know how I got by before.
1. In your scenario you wouldn't be remorseful, so I would turn you in. You can't simply say I'll do crime now and feel bad afterwards.
2. Basic morals condone revenge? Avenging victims is making them feel happy? Eye for any eye kept our society together? I'm not sure this blood lust is healthy for our society.
 

LiudvikasT

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Jan 21, 2011
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Jedihunter4 said:
LiudvikasT said:
ravensheart18 said:
LiudvikasT said:
I don't trust justice system, he can be hitler himself and I wouldn't tell police anything.

Not to mention justice system is meant to protect the population, not to punish (at least it should be). If he's remorseful, then there's no need to imprison him.
Then I'll ask you as well to answer my question... Would you also protect the 80 year old ex-pedophile priest who had abused, and possibly even murdered, dozens or even hundreds of little boys and girls but who is now deepl remorseful and hasn't hurt fly in 50 years?
I would protect anyone who I was sure felt remorseful. If they are remorseful then they won't repeat the crime, therefore no need to imprison them.
Then as I said to someone else, can you tell me where you live an I'll pump my self up force myself to come over murder your family an steal all your worldly possessions, cause I know that I can always repent, then perhaps we can become friends and come to find the whole thing funny in time!

I mean screw the basic morals of doing bad things have a consequence like every 5 year old learns, I mean fck the prison system and making victims feel happy with a sense of justice, lets all just say sorry and go play in the candy floss forest with father Christmas! I mean the idea of punishing those who have done wrong has essentially held our society together since the stone age and stopped us descending into hell on earth, but screw it lets try something new! I'm gunna go torch an orphanage now, rob a bank and shit on a baby cause I know I'll probably feel bad about it in the morning, so it will all be all right!

Thank you for showing me the light I don't know how I got by before.
1. In your scenario you wouldn't be remorseful, so I would turn you in. You can't simply say I'll do crime now and feel bad afterwards.
2. Basic morals condone revenge? Avenging victims is making them feel happy? Eye for any eye kept our society together? I'm not sure this blood lust is healthy for our society.
 

Bullfrog1983

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Dec 3, 2008
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Bara_no_Hime said:
Other.
Specifically: No, because there'd be no point.

If the police are already after him, it's too late. The legal system will imprison him, but nothing harsher.

I might not go out of my way to turn him in, but I'm not going to risk myself over him either.
This. I don't think it would really help him if I tried to house him anyway, I live in a house with a bunch of students.