Poll: Would you hook up with/date a trans person?

[FoolKiller]

Nope. Maybe that makes me a bad person and a hypocrite considering how I feel they should be treated equally but I just don't want to for some reason.

Wow.. only took 8 posts for me to find the right words. I just want a girl who was born a girl. They have a right to live their lives but so do I. My preferences and beliefs are two different things.

 

[chuckman1]

It doesn't matter if you suspect or not, you're still running a risk, because your average woman is not going to be particularly happy to have someone ask her whether she was born a man or not, even if it comes with a caveat like "I'm asking because you're really tall", or "I'm asking because your leg spacing seems different than most women", or "I'm asking because you have broad shoulders". What you're basically saying is "you have masculine characteristics", and most folks of either gender don't like being asked why they have stereotypical characteristics of the other gender.

So how is this the problem of trans people that some people are unwilling to ask if their partner is trans even though they won't knowingly date a trans person? An ex of my mother, a white guy, once broke up with a woman because after a few dates he found out that she was biracial, and the guy is as racist as they come. He found out when he asked about a relative she was talking about and she showed him a picture, revealing a relative who was very clearly not white. He liked to blame it on her, acting as if he was deceived and that she led him on, and it was in language so colourful that I think I'd get banned for just posting it here even though its just me quoting him. Why is it the problem of the woman in question instead of the shitstain on humanity man who didn't ask about one of his major personal hang-ups? Its essentially the same scenario.

You can ask someone their racial background and unless they're some sort of denying person (Dominicans thinking they're not black is an example) and they won't get mad.
If I ask a female "hey were you born a man" she may never talk to me again. If I ask a man "hey were you born a woman" he may never talk to me again. I feel like it would be kind of offensive even to ask a trans person like some would get mad but I never have asked.

It's not the fault of the trans person, it's society's fault for placing a big deal on sex, and saying that being a feminine man or masculine girl is so terrible.

 

[The Lunatic]

Its essentially the same scenario.

Sure, apart from the whole children thing.

And the biological side of things.

Ultimately, just because you have a certain view on a person's gender and the various intimacies of that, doesn't mean you're allowed to disrespect another's view on gender and sexual identity.

If a person views a another who identifies as transgender, as their biological sex, and therefore is unwilling to engage in relations with such a person, I don't see what right you get to just completely ignore that because you don't agree.

Then there's the whole issue of consent.

Simply, if engaging in a sexual relation with a person, you should never withhold information that may affect consent. And given the results of this thread alone, it's pretty evident, it is something that should be revealed as it clearly affects consent in a large number of people.

 

[babinro]

Wouldn't know until I was put into the situation.

I really don't know how far the relationship would develop before you become informed of the persons transgendered nature. If I already had an emotional attachment with the person than I'd want to pursue the relationship further and see where things go. Maybe I could handle it and maybe I couldn't. I'd be a unique experience for me.

So yeah, I wouldn't seek out a transgender relationship via dating website or intentionally. But if I found myself in one I wouldn't immediately break it off on that basis alone either.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Well besides the fact that you might piss somebody off by asking about their heritage, because that actually is a touchy subject for many people, this still doesn't address the question - how is this the problem of trans people? Yes, we know whose fault it is, and most people will admit it, but even then most insist that trans people are obligated to be upfront, which also more or less ignores the fact that there's always a risk in outing one's self. I know a lot of trans women who were upfront at the very moment they were hit on and got physical abuse for it. Its literally a situation of "Hey there, sexy lady" Responding with "Hi yourself. Just so you know, I'm trans" and then having a bottle bashed over their head. Its a no-win scenario.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that one thing because if I tackle all the troublesome stuff in this thread I'll probably be the most hated person on the forums by Thursday.

Not only that, it's no one's business. If you're flirting with someone and you legitimately want to sleep with them? Fine. But forcing people to out themselves because of flirting, or simply because someone shows an interest? Yeah, no... people saying as such can go fuck themselves. Let's face it, trans people have a hell of a lot more to lose than their partners ... not to mention that trans people in general tend to show passive type demeanours. They don't tend to be the initiators of an exchange.

If someone walked up to me and interrogated me about my past, I'd give them the same response if they asked me where I lived off the bat. I'd blow them off. If I'm not interested in you as a person, why exactly would I want you in my bed? More to the point, if you're just looking to get your rocks off that you would treat any investment of time or effort in people automatically means sex, then don't blame people for giving you the finger instead, regardless.

Trans people are not going to out themselves to people they don't trust, or don't feel they need to. Precisely because it's no one's business. And if you feel 'cheated' that you spent time chatting with someone 'for naught', you're an egotistical ****.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

It doesn't matter if you suspect or not, you're still running a risk, because your average woman is not going to be particularly happy to have someone ask her whether she was born a man or not, even if it comes with a caveat like "I'm asking because you're really tall", or "I'm asking because your leg spacing seems different than most women", or "I'm asking because you have broad shoulders". What you're basically saying is "you have masculine characteristics", and most folks of either gender don't like being asked why they have stereotypical characteristics of the other gender.

So how is this the problem of trans people that some people are unwilling to ask if their partner is trans even though they won't knowingly date a trans person? An ex of my mother, a white guy, once broke up with a woman because after a few dates he found out that she was biracial, and the guy is as racist as they come. He found out when he asked about a relative she was talking about and she showed him a picture, revealing a relative who was very clearly not white. He liked to blame it on her, acting as if he was deceived and that she led him on, and it was in language so colourful that I think I'd get banned for just posting it here even though its just me quoting him. Why is it the problem of the woman in question instead of the shitstain on humanity man who didn't ask about one of his major personal hang-ups? Its essentially the same scenario.

I never said it was the 'problem' of trans-people, I responded to the earlier post where someone said: "...if you have suspicions it's perfectly okay to ask if someone is trans, or not", because I don't believe this statement is true (depending on your definition of "perfectly okay").

Whether you like it or not (and whether it's just or not) most people would not be particularly happy with someone asking them if they were born male or female. When you're a man (or a woman) who is interested in someone, you're running a risk of messing everything up by asking them this, that doesn't make it (to me) "perfectly okay".

Also, it's not even close to the same scenario. The person you're talking about was born biracial, and no matter what, her ancestry and lineage will not change. She was not born to generation upon generation of whites, but then turned herself biracial via surgery and/or hormone therapy. Her being biracial also does not make her incapable of having children. Likewise, most people I know would not be particularly offended of someone inquiring as to what their ethnic background was, or at least not nearly as much as asking them if they were born a different sex and then underwent hormonal and/or surgical procedures to be a different sex.

 

[Skatologist]

I don't really have any qualms with dating someone who's transgender or transsexual. Or hooking up with them.

It would be different than what I'm used to, but I'm not really picky about what gets me off. Part of that might just be being 20 and being way too fucking horny all the time. But yeah, I don't mind the undercarriage parts. I'm more attracted to everything else. None of that stuff is a dealbreaker for me. If I feel like they're an attractive woman, I'm probably good.

Of course, I know some people just don't feel comfortable with the idea. And that's okay too.

I dunno, man. I consider myself pretty fucking straight. I'm pretty sure gay men aren't going to be attracted to a transwoman because she decided to keep her dick. But hey, I'm not a gay man, so what would I know? The way I see it, if a person identifies as a woman, looks very much like a woman, and I find them attractive, that's all I really need.

Though, yes, I would say sexuality can be a pretty big spectrum of different factors of attraction and that someone can be a small degree of bisexual. But I wouldn't agree that dating and having sexy times with a pre-op transgender person somehow makes a person not straight.

Granted, that's not a huge deal either way. Or at least, it shouldn't be. But everyone knows how tons of people just gotta know how other consenting adults go about their private business. Because reasons/religion/ick factor.

You metaphorically cockblocked all of my thoughts and feelings I was going to share in this thread, so kudos on that avenue. Only thing I might be able to add is that I'm probably much looser with what I think "looks like a woman" than most people

Where's the "it depends" answer?

Because it would depend on whether or not I was attracted to them.

Huh, even with your thread from over 3 years ago having an "it depends" category, a lot of people were still dissatisfied with results. Not much change I'd say, except I'm guessing this thread will be as long as yours though. Oh, found another without a poll and a comment of yours. Go figure!

 

[Risingblade]

Naw, it's not something I could ever get passed.

 

[smithy_2045]

Sure, why not. As long as they're attractive and a cool individual, I wouldn't really care.

 

[SadisticFire]

Absolutely! As long as if they're into making me into a pet. But I'm super biased, partially because of my kinks, partially because I'm a bisexual. I adore blurred lines, so even if it's kind of.. wrong to be fetishizing them, it's just something that influences my decision, and I'd be honestly more likely to date and hook up with them than a non trans to be completely honest. It feels.. odd, to say, because that is discrimination, but it's just the truth. I'm not about to kick up drama if my datee and I are happy.
I wonder if I'm just a pansexual though. I don't know what is, I just like it all, except for the extreme scales of masculinity and femininity.

 

[Metailurus]

Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. To me it would be the same thing as being gay, which I'm not.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Yes, and people are born with a fixed gender identity.

And your point is...? One cannot choose to change their lineage, one can choose to change their gender.

Some people consider changing one's complexion of being a way of changing one's race, just the same way some people think that a post-transition trans person is still the gender they were prior to transition. Its wrong in both counts.

Make-up washes off and tan skin eventually reverts to its previous color, a surgically created vagina and/or breasts do not (or a surgically created penis and scrotum and mastectomy). Some people believe that, since no amount of surgery or hormones changes the Y chromosome to an X (or the second X chromosome to a Y) that a transgender person is still 'the same gender' as they were prior. If you're going to claim people's personal opinions are wrong then I have nothing more to add.

No, but her being cisgender does not exclude her from being infertile. There are more infertile cisgender people than there are all of transgender people, so assuming that somebody is fertile because they're cisgender is both fallacious and significantly more likely. CDC says that 11% of women age 15-44 have fertility difficulties. [http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/infertility.htm] The estimate for the population of transgender people runs from .3% of the population to 2% of the population. So you're anywhere from five to thirty three times more likely to encounter a cisgender women who is infertile than a transgender woman. 7% of men experience infertility, [http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/1/56] so a person is three to twenty one times more likely to encounter an infertile cisgender man on a date than a transgender man. Last I checked, most people don't ask their date if they're fertile or not the first time they go out with each other.

False equivalence. If 11% of women 15-44 have fertility issues, that means 89% do not. In other words, not having fertility issues is the statistical norm for a cisgender woman (or man). On the other hand, 100% of MtF transpeople have fertility issues, as in they can't bear children. Actually, you really can't even consider it a 'fertility issue', because they were never capable of producing children and it wasn't due to any sort of medical issue. Likewise, I never said anything about an appropriate time to ask someone this question (ie. 'the first date').

Again, how does this effect trans people? Yes, its difficult, but if somebody is so invested in the idea that a certain trait is such a deal-breaker, then it would be imperative to find out this information, no? Gotta crack some eggs to make an omelette, right?

Again, I never said anything about the effect it has on anyone, I simply pointed out that I think the idea that you can ask someone if they were born a different gender and think they're going to be 'perfectly okay' with this question is false (for the most part).

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Make-up washes off and tan skin eventually reverts to its previous color, a surgically created vagina and/or breasts do not (or a surgically created penis and scrotum and mastectomy). Some people believe that, since no amount of surgery or hormones changes the Y chromosome to an X (or the second X chromosome to a Y) that a transgender person is still 'the same gender' as they were prior. If you're going to claim people's personal opinions are wrong then I have nothing more to add.

Technically not accurate ... Plenty of XX people diagnosed 'male' at birth. Myself included. Well, I have 3 sex chromosomes. It's called 'being human' ... pretending everything fits together into two neat boxes at birth because of genetics is a flawed, scientifically disproven concept. Not to mention the whole host of social and ethical problems caused by just treating people as a genetic code, not to mention the idiocy of it given that it's one of a multiplicity of reasons for why the self emerges.

(Edit You want to know what's also funny? People like me represent the most common atypical chromosomal condition in the world. So ... you know ...

If personal opinions shouldn't fall into the metrics of analyzing the right of another's sense of self; then why is it bad to admonish those that labour under badly conceived ideals of gender expression? The way I see it, if someone were to promote the message that you did, and promote it as justification to deny another's sense of self and right to their expression, I personally see it as akin to people who claim God for their reasons to oppose things like equality for LGBTIQ people.

You know ... no basis in science, not conducive to the right of expression, typically based on subjective prejudices. Anti-trans rhetoric certainly sounds like a religion to me. If there's no foundation to use religion to dictate the lives and meaning of others, why should it be entertained as anything but counter-intuitive to modern civilization and principles of liberty?

 

[Rahkshi500]

If I knew one well enough that I enjoy their company a lot then yeah, I wouldn't minding dating them.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Nope. I like women, as in biological women. As in vaginas and the lot. You hear all the stories about straight guys getting all pissed off when they've hooked up with a girl that actually turned out to be a guy. That's my biggest issue with this whole debate. Trans seem to think it's completely fine to be deceptive like that? (Yes it is deception, no matter what way you wish to spin it)

Pretty much this. Couldnt have said it better myself......which is why i used your quote.