Poll: Your political standing?

[Hevoo]

Socialism!
I'd rather pay high taxes and have everything taken care of then have to worry about things like health care and such.

That's not socialism..... Didnt you have a history/humanities class?

What you are speaking of is a Mixed Economy

A mixed economy is an economic system that incorporates aspects of more than one economic system. This usually means an economy that contains both privately-owned and state-owned enterprises[1] or that combines elements of capitalism and socialism, or a mix of market economy and planned economy characteristics.[2]

There is not one single definition for a mixed economy,[3] but relevant aspects include: a degree of private economic freedom (including privately owned industry) intermingled with centralized economic planning (which may include intervention for environmentalism and social welfare, or state ownership of some of the means of production).

For some states, there is not a consensus on whether they are capitalist, socialist, or mixed economies. Economies in states ranging from the United States[4] to Cuba[5] have been termed mixed economies.

 

[mokes310]

Socialism. Are public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Cuz guess what...shhh, don't tell anyone, but they're socialist programs...shhh...

They are not socialist programs, not in the sense where you have the government holding the means of production. Look up the word socialism.

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

Far as I know public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Dont make anything.

Btw anyone who wants anything but Capitalism kiss your video games good by, your a idiot if you want socialism.....

Yeah, those bad people who want everyone to have equal rights and possibilities are really going to bring everything to a hold. Booh them!

So lets say if you got a class, and you do all the work and get a A in the class. But the teacher says "everyone has to be equal because we live in the soviet republic of (insert nation), so I will avg all your grades out." So that means all the F students get pushed up and all the A students get pushed down. Now take that example and apply it to economics. Now matter how hard you work you will never get ahead in life, so if you are the best factory worker in all of your soviet republic, you are equal to the laziest....

I lived in Poland I know what Socialism is, and all I can say is F%%% IT!(back in the late 80s)

Now I live in the USA, and I love Capitalism.

No offense, but you've got Communism and Socialism mixed up. In socialism, the Government helps the less fortunate with programs like free education, free police/fire/health services, etc. You need to read up on the differences before you try to point them out my friend.

 

[Hevoo]

You can critisce any political or economic idea but the truth is none of them are perfect and everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm personally a Neo-luddite but I'm open to other peoples opinions so try not to insult people please

I insult dumb people who are mixing up Socialism with other economics systems. Let alone this thread is completely named wrong.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Firstly anarcho-communism isn't communism. Secondly, apparently you have no idea about the left side of the political spectrum. Get some knowledge about that. Begone now, you troll.

Yes, it's communism by *committee* and hence even more fantastically unreal than the other kind.

All political philosophies on the left boil down to the same thing: gov't or generalized control over at least *some* aspect of the economy. Arguing over how and what and how much and precisely who constitutes the controlling body is pointless when it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

 

[Hevoo]

Socialism. Are public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Cuz guess what...shhh, don't tell anyone, but they're socialist programs...shhh...

They are not socialist programs, not in the sense where you have the government holding the means of production. Look up the word socialism.

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

Far as I know public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Dont make anything.

Btw anyone who wants anything but Capitalism kiss your video games good by, your a idiot if you want socialism.....

Yeah, those bad people who want everyone to have equal rights and possibilities are really going to bring everything to a hold. Booh them!

So lets say if you got a class, and you do all the work and get a A in the class. But the teacher says "everyone has to be equal because we live in the soviet republic of (insert nation), so I will avg all your grades out." So that means all the F students get pushed up and all the A students get pushed down. Now take that example and apply it to economics. Now matter how hard you work you will never get ahead in life, so if you are the best factory worker in all of your soviet republic, you are equal to the laziest....

I lived in Poland I know what Socialism is, and all I can say is F%%% IT!(back in the late 80s)

Now I live in the USA, and I love Capitalism.

No offense, but you've got Communism and Socialism mixed up. In socialism, the Government helps the less fortunate with programs like free education, free police/fire/health services, etc. You need to read up on the differences before you try to point them out my friend.

First thing you dont know what Socialism is.

What that person really described is a Mixed Economy

A mixed economy is an economic system that incorporates aspects of more than one economic system. This usually means an economy that contains both privately-owned and state-owned enterprises[1] or that combines elements of capitalism and socialism, or a mix of market economy and planned economy characteristics.[2]

There is not one single definition for a mixed economy,[3] but relevant aspects include: a degree of private economic freedom (including privately owned industry) intermingled with centralized economic planning (which may include intervention for environmentalism and social welfare, or state ownership of some of the means of production).

For some states, there is not a consensus on whether they are capitalist, socialist, or mixed economies. Economies in states ranging from the United States[4] to Cuba[5] have been termed mixed economies.

Call it was it is, not what it is not.

 

[Hevoo]

Firstly anarcho-communism isn't communism. Secondly, apparently you have no idea about the left side of the political spectrum. Get some knowledge about that. Begone now, you troll.

Yes, it's communism by *committee* and hence even more fantastically unreal than the other kind.

All political philosophies on the left boil down to the same thing: gov't or generalized control over at least *some* aspect of the economy. Arguing over how and what and how much and precisely who constitutes the controlling body is pointless when it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

^ thank you

 

[Alleged_Alec]

i picked Anachishm, but to be extremely precise i am a non-theist Anarcho-communist.

Please explain to me how the hell would communism work without a goverment?
Who would redistribute the goods and keep people from commiting such crimes as working on their own and living their life ?

I'm a libertarian. No such option so I went for capitalism. I'm glad its leading atm.

[/quote]

You have no idea about what communism is about, have you? It is a system with multiple steps. The first is revolution, the second is a short-lived intermediate in which the classes are slowly evened.

 

[spuddyt]

I'd say that by far the best system is actually not a defined one, but one which has a revolution every now and again - its unrealistic at present, but i'm working on a realistic theory for it

so for example: having a fascist dictator with almost absolute power (but who would have to have been very carefully chosen) for a while (which, btw people, is NOT by definition a bad thing, they do NOT have to take freedoms/liberties etc.), then, perhaps when said leader dies, have a defined time in which there is a democratic system which is itself supplanted by fascism after a set period of time as corruption begins to sink in ~ you see my theory is that any singular system decays, and a constant system of renewal would actually be in the best interests of everyone involved. This would obviously be difficult to achieve in the real world, but I just want your thoughts?

(And although this is unnecessary to say, don't hold back on the "you are a naive fool who should have his testies removed to prevent the spread of stupidity" - its best to hold no illusions I feel)

edit: since everyone seems to be ignoring me completely, i'll assume this is a bad idea and leave it at that

 

[Hevoo]

i picked Anachishm, but to be extremely precise i am a non-theist Anarcho-communist.

Please explain to me how the hell would communism work without a goverment?
Who would redistribute the goods and keep people from commiting such crimes as working on their own and living their life ?

I'm a libertarian. No such option so I went for capitalism. I'm glad its leading atm.

You have no idea about what communism is about, have you? It is a system with multiple steps. The first is revolution, the second is a short-lived intermediate in which the classes are slowly evened.[/quote]

There are more steps then that as far as Karl thought.

First a nation must leave feudalism into capitalism.
Then this nation must turned a Mixed Economy(large social welfare programs, still has capitalism)
Then socialism comes into play with the government taking all control of the economy.
After all of that which could take a long long long time, you start what you stated.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Firstly anarcho-communism isn't communism. Secondly, apparently you have no idea about the left side of the political spectrum. Get some knowledge about that. Begone now, you troll.

Yes, it's communism by *committee* and hence even more fantastically unreal than the other kind.

All political philosophies on the left boil down to the same thing: gov't or generalized control over at least *some* aspect of the economy. Arguing over how and what and how much and precisely who constitutes the controlling body is pointless when it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

All political philosophies on the right boil down to the same thing: control by a small elite on a large aspect of both the economy and the state. Arguing over how and what and how much and precisely how many people are in the elite is pointless when it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

Ok, but the problem is with high taxes a nation stops to develop (it's a fact) and the expanded goverment corrupts over time (also a fact). So instead of getting back what you paid for in taxes you feed a giant money-wasting machine.

Got any sources to back up those 'facts'?

 

[mokes310]

Socialism. Are public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Cuz guess what...shhh, don't tell anyone, but they're socialist programs...shhh...

They are not socialist programs, not in the sense where you have the government holding the means of production. Look up the word socialism.

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

Far as I know public schools, police forces and fire departments bad? Dont make anything.

Btw anyone who wants anything but Capitalism kiss your video games good by, your a idiot if you want socialism.....

Yeah, those bad people who want everyone to have equal rights and possibilities are really going to bring everything to a hold. Booh them!

So lets say if you got a class, and you do all the work and get a A in the class. But the teacher says "everyone has to be equal because we live in the soviet republic of (insert nation), so I will avg all your grades out." So that means all the F students get pushed up and all the A students get pushed down. Now take that example and apply it to economics. Now matter how hard you work you will never get ahead in life, so if you are the best factory worker in all of your soviet republic, you are equal to the laziest....

I lived in Poland I know what Socialism is, and all I can say is F%%% IT!(back in the late 80s)

Now I live in the USA, and I love Capitalism.

No offense, but you've got Communism and Socialism mixed up. In socialism, the Government helps the less fortunate with programs like free education, free police/fire/health services, etc. You need to read up on the differences before you try to point them out my friend.

First thing you dont know what Socialism is.

What that person really described is a Mixed Economy

A mixed economy is an economic system that incorporates aspects of more than one economic system. This usually means an economy that contains both privately-owned and state-owned enterprises[1] or that combines elements of capitalism and socialism, or a mix of market economy and planned economy characteristics.[2]

There is not one single definition for a mixed economy,[3] but relevant aspects include: a degree of private economic freedom (including privately owned industry) intermingled with centralized economic planning (which may include intervention for environmentalism and social welfare, or state ownership of some of the means of production).

For some states, there is not a consensus on whether they are capitalist, socialist, or mixed economies. Economies in states ranging from the United States[4] to Cuba[5] have been termed mixed economies.

Call it was it is, not what it is not.

Just one question. Have you read Das Kapital?

 

[Baby Tea]

Socialism!
I'd rather pay high taxes and have everything taken care of then have to worry about things like health care and such.

Ok, but the problem is with high taxes a nation stops to develop (it's a fact) and the expanded goverment corrupts over time (also a fact). So instead of getting back what you paid for in taxes you feed a giant money-wasting machine.
Trust me, you wouldn't like to see how public healthcare looks in coutries not as rich as Sweden or Canada (and USA is by no means rich atm)

Fair enough.
I guess I'm just a fan of not having to pay for health care. It's pretty sweet (Saved my life twice). I wouldn't mind Canada's form of government so much if we had a more unified country. As it stands: It's basically every province for itself.

 

[JMeganSnow]

This would obviously be difficult to achieve in the real world, but I just want your thoughts?

Try "impossible" and you'd have a closer fit. A constitutional dictatorship is a contradiction in terms, and seesawing between singular dictatorship and the dictatorship of the proletariat (i.e. "democracy") wouldn't improve the situation any.

If you're having trouble understanding why, I suggest you contemplate why such a concept as "voluntary slavery" is impossible and come back later when you understand it.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

My politics are far too complicated to label. Domestically I am pretty Socialist but in regards to foreign policy and national security I am very much a Pragmatic Authoritarian. Thus I guess you could say I have similarities to the Soviet System in regards to beliefs at least early on. Though I jokingly refer to myself as National Socialist because of my very different views on issues.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

All political philosophies on the left boil down to the same thing: gov't or generalized control over at least *some* aspect of the economy. Arguing over how and what and how much and precisely who constitutes the controlling body is pointless when it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

Perhaps, but it would be just as fair to say that right-ist political philosophies boil down to making the rich richer without regard to anything else. (ie: it's a gross oversimplification that distorts the position.)

-- Steve

 

[JMeganSnow]

I guess I'm just a fan of not having to pay for health care.

Not a fan of reality, then? You pay for it regardless, the only difference is the *form* in which you pay for it. The choice is this:

Would you rather pay for something invisibly your entire life whether you want it or not or have any use for it or not and be mired in a swamp of regulations, exceptions, controls, rationing, and the ever-increasing dictates of Mama Government, or would you rather pay for it only as and when you need it subject only to your own decisions?

Am I the only one who finds these two claims that are frequently expressed together ridiculous:

1. I don't trust ANYONE with my (insert requirement here)

2. So I entrusted it to the government.

 

[tomdavi]

Strictly speaking , I'm more of a liberal but also fairly socialist hen it comes down to it. Heevo, if you've had a bad experience of socialism then I completely understand, but you have to understand that even countries do politcal systems in different ways. The kind of capitalism that China is moving towards is not the kind of capitalism that America has, and so on. Poland may have been socialist, but it had a very different kind of socialism to what Britain has. For a start, Britain is somewhat more wealthy and as such, socialism just provides a safety net for those whom lose their jobs, can't work etc, with no less (and in fact probably more) personal freedoms than in the USA. People still work, though there is no powerful incentive to do so, other than pride and the want to better themselves etc.

Personally though, I think we've got to try, and probably will try, every politcal system. Morals and views change inexorably over many years, and with that new systems become the accepted norms. There are always alternatives, but they will be different alternatives as the axioms behind them change. Do you think we'll be talking about capitalism, communism, socialism etc in the same way 200 years donw the line? It'll be (complete guesses but it would be cool if I was right) informationism, New Socratism and Collective anarchism. And they will be no more right or wrong than the views we hold today. *Sigh*

 

[Alleged_Alec]

And then comes the Santa Claus giving everybody presents and takes them to the magical land of fantasy
Do you click those "You are 999999th visitor, you win a prize" banners? Because that has to be the most naive sentence I've ever read.
There will never be such thing as even classes without control the smarter and hard working will become the higher classes and with control it will be the same old totalitarism with masters and slaves.

Heevo: My wiemy, jaki komuna to syf

Did I ever say it was a perfect system? Besides, communism, having left ideals, stands with the idea that people are equal (not in the literal sense of the word) and will the the right things.