Poll: Zoomed Hipfire vs ADS: Which do you prefer?

[hanselthecaretaker]

So I was looking for stats on what people use in more recent games, and found this megathread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.384012-Aim-Down-Sight-is-unnecessary-for-realism?page=1] from our very own Escapist.

Some interesting points are made for both. While I have no problem playing a game with either, I think there?s a trade off of expectations at the very least. True, there?s no way to accurately simulate ADS and FoV on a 2D screen, but accurately hitting everything short of scope distance with hipfire isn?t well-realized either.

I think it depends on the game type for which compromise makes more sense, but I?d prefer if there was at least an option for ADS that didn?t unnaturally skew accuracy stats due to controller type limitations. That?s a fallacy anyways since some console games like the Killzone series don?t rely on aim assist or gimp hipfire into obscurity for the sake of ADS, and it was even designed to be a cover shoooter. Leave accuracy stats alone and simply present both gun handling options for their respective applications within the game environment. They don?t have to be mutually exclusive functions.

 

[Saelune]

Ok, misread that as 'Aids' and was very alarmed at the question.

I prefer ADS, cause I prefer first person.

 

[Poetic Nova]

I honestly don't care either way, as long as the FOV in general is high enough when you don't aim. But that is a diffirent story.

 

[Vigormortis]

Well, it depends primarily on the gameplay goal of the game designers.

If their goal is to make a slower-paced, cover-based shooter, I'll take either form. ADS is fine. Non-ADS with zoomed hip-fire is fine. ADS can help add to the feel of pacing, but either form can achieve the end goal.

However, if their intention is to make a fast-paced, twitch shooter, keep ADS as far the fuck away as is humanly possible. Nothing kills fast paced FPS gameplay like ADS. It's just the fucking worst.

[sub]* Full disclosure: While I tend to prefer non-ADS shooters, I'll play either. Neither aim type inherently detracts from the gameplay experience, provided that experience is built around each mechanic accordingly.[/sub]

I prefer ADS, cause I prefer first person.

Uh....what? Since when are these things inherently mutual?

 

[Saelune]

I prefer ADS, cause I prefer first person.

Uh....what? Since when are these things inherently mutual?

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

 

[Ironman126]

Depends, really. Primarily on the gameplay goal of the game designers.

If their goal is to make a slower-paced, cover-based shooter, I'll take either form. ADS is fine. Non-ADS with zoomed hip-fire is fine.

However, if their intention is to make a fast-paced, twitch shooter, keep ADS as far the fuck away as is humanly possible. Nothing kills fast paced FPS gameplay like ADS. It's just the fucking worst.

[sub]* Full disclosure: While I tend to prefer non-ADS shooters, I'll play either. Neither aim type inherently detracts from the gameplay experience, provided that experience is built around each mechanic accordingly.[/sub]

I prefer ADS, cause I prefer first person.

Uh....what? Since when are these things inherently mutual?

How many FPSs uses zoomed hipfire? In most cases I've seen, an FPS will either have ADS or no zoom/precision aiming at all. The reverse should also be asked: How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

I think it largely depends on the games, and for the most part I must say I'm quite satisfied with the approaches taken. Far Cry, Wolfenstein, Doom, Call of Duty. They seem appropriate, although almost all of them hip fire more accurately than I could ever imagine. But the pace of the game dictates that.

One TPS with ADS that I played recently is Ghost Recon Wildlands. And I think it was implemented really well. Actually you could choose whether to make it more realistic for yourself, with a setting that could be toggled. So either you ADS in first person view, or the character aims down sights but the camera just goes to over the shoulder. I think that's how it was, I might be off slightly. But it offered a nice flexibility for that kind of game, which wasn't going for extreme realism.

One game that I found weird is Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, where the hip fire is ridiculously accurate. Way too accurate in fact, that I think it was dialed in to be just as accurate as scope fire. However, the hitboxes didn't scale, so it was actually easier to get a headshot without being zoomed in on the sights. Which is kinda funny actually. Not complaining, I mean that game is one of my favorites, but it would feel more out of place in the prior titles in that franchise, which went for much more realism and tactics, like leaning around cover and rolling doors open slowly.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

 

[Saelune]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

Over The Shoulder is NOT Aiming Down Sights by any measure. If you arent using the gun's own aiming mechanism, it is not ADS.

 

[DeliveryGodNoah_v1legacy]

Surprisingly, I prefer the camera to zoom in a bit without going into iron sights and the accuracy just becomes more consistent, rather than ADS. But it really does depend on the game. If it's a tactical shooter, ADS all the way, but if it's a fast-paced shooter, please don't shove that gigantic weapon model any further into my face.

I can't explain why, but it also feels better to me not to aim in ADS. The original Far Cry got along beautifully without sight aiming, and Fallout 3 never needed it because a majority of the shooting was stat based. I even turned it off in Fallout: NV.

 

[Ironman126]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

Over The Shoulder is NOT Aiming Down Sights by any measure. If you arent using the gun's own aiming mechanism, it is not ADS.

Oh, come on. Read the words he wrote. "Equivalent." OTS and ADS are (obviously) not identical, but they do the same thing. It's fine-motor versus gross-motor coordination.

Besides, it's not like there's more than a handful of games where the sights make a difference. I think the real question is: Do you prefer to use a chunk of gun to aim or the aiming reticle? The important bit is that the sensitivity changes and maybe you get some zoom.

 

[Ironman126]

Surprisingly, I prefer the camera to zoom in a bit without going into iron sights and the accuracy just becomes more consistent, rather than ADS. But it really does depend on the game. If it's a tactical shooter, ADS all the way, but if it's a fast-paced shooter, please don't shove that gigantic weapon model any further into my face.

I can't explain why, but it also feels better to me not to aim in ADS. The original Far Cry got along beautifully without sight aiming, and Fallout 3 never needed it because a majority of the shooting was stat based. I even turned it off in Fallout: NV.

Verisimilitude. If an FPS doesn't give me ADS, it feels like I'm being reminded it's a game. That's why I think there was the push to have iron sights in Fallout NV (and a couple FO3 mods that always broke the game). Especially when you can see the sights on the guns and you're left to wonder why you can't use them.

Of course, the iron sights in New Vegas are all broken. Not one gun in that game hits at point of aim, so you're not wrong to turn ADS off.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

Over The Shoulder is NOT Aiming Down Sights by any measure. If you arent using the gun's own aiming mechanism, it is not ADS.

OTS is accomplishing the same thing mechanically (making you stop to shoot and giving you that sensitivity switch) and your player character is aiming down sights when you OTS. They aren't EXACTLY the same as you do get a bit less feel for the gun and recoil in OTS than ADS but OTS is BASICALLY the 3rd-person equivalent of ADS.

 

[TheFinish]

I prefer ADS. It feels better to me and it lets developers include different sighting systems (Irons, Red Dot, Reflex, ACOGs, etc) that you can't get if you just have hip fire with zoom.

That said, I don't mind hip fire with zoom. Or without zoom, which is far more common. Just a different kind of game usually.

 

[Saelune]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

Over The Shoulder is NOT Aiming Down Sights by any measure. If you arent using the gun's own aiming mechanism, it is not ADS.

Oh, come on. Read the words he wrote. "Equivalent." OTS and ADS are (obviously) not identical, but they do the same thing. It's fine-motor versus gross-motor coordination.

Besides, it's not like there's more than a handful of games where the sights make a difference. I think the real question is: Do you prefer to use a chunk of gun to aim or the aiming reticle? The important bit is that the sensitivity changes and maybe you get some zoom.

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

OTS is mainly used in 3rd-person shooters and it's the equivalent of ADS (stops your character and provides the same sensitivity "switch"), it's not hipfire. The 3rd-person equivalent of hipfire is usually called blindfire (like Uncharted).

Most TPSs actually have ADS shooting like MGS4&5 and the Ghost Recons, even Uncharted has one assault rifle with a scope and you can ADS shoot with it. Even if the TPS has ADS, you mostly do fire in via OTS in them.

Over The Shoulder is NOT Aiming Down Sights by any measure. If you arent using the gun's own aiming mechanism, it is not ADS.

OTS is accomplishing the same thing mechanically (making you stop to shoot and giving you that sensitivity switch) and your player character is aiming down sights when you OTS. They aren't EXACTLY the same as you do get a bit less feel for the gun and recoil in OTS than ADS but OTS is BASICALLY the 3rd-person equivalent of ADS.

Yeah, 'targeting the enemy to shoot them' is the same basic thing, but they are not THE same thing, or else this whole topic would be irrelevant.

I stand by my previous post. If you arent using the gun's aiming mechanism, you arent using ADS, because well, you arent aiming down the sights.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Yeah I'm easy with either one as long as it works properly.

 

[not_you]

I personally can't stand crosshairs... I'll mod them out if I have to...

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I prefer zoom rather than Aim Down Sights.

ADS blocks off like half your damn screen with the bigass tun texture and makes aiming a tremendous pain in the ass.

Long range scopes are an exception that I'm ok with because they give you a lot of power and should have a con to go with that pro.

But if I'm trying to use a medium range weapon and in order to have anywhere near an accurate shot I have to cover a huge chunk of the screen with this awkward gun and barely see anything in this tiny little iron sight...Yeah, it's not so much fun.

 

[Vigormortis]

Hipfire is usually terrible in FPS games (since ya know not aiming makes hitting things difficult). But it is...how you shoot in most 3rd person games.

Um...as the vast majority of FPS games, since the genre's inception, have used hip-fire-style aiming mechanics, how can you say it's usually 'terrible'? Quake, for example, has a plethora of pin-point accurate weaponry and it doesn't use an ADS system at all.

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

Not all but some do. Gears of War does, for example.

How many FPSs uses zoomed hipfire?

More than you might think. Quake does. Counter-Strike does. Unreal Tournament does.

In most cases I've seen, an FPS will either have ADS or no zoom/precision aiming at all.

But that's simply not true. Beyond the examples above you can look at console shooters like Perfect Dark and Halo, each of which uses a combination of hip-fire and zoomed aiming.

The reverse should also be asked: How many TPSs use ADS? Most opt for zoomed hipfire.

Again, more than you may think.

--------------------------------------

Out of curiosity, how many first-person and third-person shooters have either of you played? If you've played any more than a handful it seems odd to me that you'd be blissfully unaware of the prevalence of zoomed-hipfire in FPS games and ADS in TPS games.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

How many 3rd person shooters even have ADS?

Doesn't PUBG's third-person mode still put you into first-person ADS when you aim?

I prefer zoom rather than Aim Down Sights.

ADS blocks off like half your damn screen with the bigass tun texture and makes aiming a tremendous pain in the ass.

I still generally prefer it to having the character blocking off nearly the entire left side of the screen while zooming in. At least in first-person perspective I can move the view down slightly to see what the weapon is blocking- I have to move the camera much further to see around my character.