Pornstar Question

[BloatedGuppy]

That's a different scenario to the original one. Of course when mistreatment is a direct result of the consumer the consumer is somewhat culpable, the question here is whether or not the mistreatment in the porn industry is a direct result of meeting consumer demands.

I can't imagine it's entirely unrelated to it. Most pornography consumers seem set on a certain price point (free) and boundaries have been getting pushed for decades now. Even the most sex-positive person on the planet would likely balk at some of what gets portrayed in modern porn. That's driven by consumer demand.

I never imagined that's what you were implying. You don't need to keep bringing it up, and awareness of what's going on is a good thing, I just don't feel that's the same thing as culpability.

I think if you help create a market, you bear some tangential responsibility for what occurs in that market. As I said in my OP in this thread, I'd lay primary blame at the feet of a hostile/judgmental public, then at the feet of pornographers who care more about the bottom line than the health or well being of their employees, then at the actors themselves, who most probably entered knowingly into an extremely troublesome industry. Yes, there are often unfortunate circumstances that might surround such a decision, but the buck still stops with us as adults at some point. You can never completely abdicate personal responsibility.

And then somewhere towards the bottom you have the porn consumer. Who just wants a fap and doesn't want to consider the shady underbelly of what they're consuming. Chief suspect? No. Some culpability? I'd continue to argue yes.

 

[theboombody]

Sometimes the ludicrous is necessary to illustrate a point.

A philosophy I live by, although I never get to the point-demonstrating part.

 

[wulf3n]

I can't imagine it's entirely unrelated to it. Most pornography consumers seem set on a certain price point (free) and boundaries have been getting pushed for decades now. Even the most sex-positive person on the planet would likely balk at some of what gets portrayed in modern porn. That's driven by consumer demand.

I guess the notion of "porn" is so broad in this context, that it's easy for us to be thinking of completely different scenarios. There are certainly areas in which the likelihood of the actors doing something against their will is high, but I don't think that's representative of the industry as a whole. This could be factually incorrect mind you.

I think if you help create a market, you bear some tangential responsibility for what occurs in that market. As I said in my OP in this thread, I'd lay primary blame at the feet of a hostile/judgmental public, then at the feet of pornographers who care more about the bottom line than the health or well being of their employees, then at the actors themselves, who most probably entered knowingly into an extremely troublesome industry. Yes, there are often unfortunate circumstances that might surround such a decision, but the buck still stops with us as adults at some point. You can never completely abdicate personal responsibility.

And then somewhere towards the bottom you have the porn consumer. Who just wants a fap and doesn't want to consider the shady underbelly of what they're consuming. Chief suspect? No. Some culpability? I'd continue to argue yes.

I don't necessarily disagree with this view, I just think it's unnecessary to distribute blame so thoroughly, depending on the situation of course, and whether or not it's reasonable to expect the consumer to be aware of the potential abuse going on.

 

[Twattycake_Fancypant]

Fine, do women with few other options often get 'forced' into porn by economic necessity? Perhaps. I've certainly known my share of strippers and sex workers for whom few other options existed.

And you don't see this as being a problem?

Yes and no.

Yes, in that I think that society should do everything in it's power to afford everyone the opportunity to get to where they want to be in life. (Not a guarantee, mind you. That's impossible. Just the opportunity.)
If you are in a situation where you have to choose one bad thing over another just to pay for basic necessities, society has failed you. Unfortunately society is too busy bailing out banks and buying iPhones to care.

No, in that I don't think that doing a shitty job you hate just to pay your bills gets worse by virtue of involving your genitals. See, I am cool with sex and people having said sex. Not my genitals, not my problem.

Also, I might add, in the end, no matter how many dudes, girls or donkeys you've screwed in front of a camera, if it's the sex part of your shitty, underpaid job you're only in so you still have something to eat and a roof to stay under, that's making you depressed, you can always become a waiter.




(No disrespect to service staff, by the way. Been there, still do that. The waiters and bartenders out there will be the first to agree with me here, though.)

 

[Something Amyss]

Stop pushing your morals. We get it, sex is evil.

This thread's intent gave me a weird slut shaming vibe.

And yeah, a good chunk of why there's an issue with things like "regret" is that we've demonised sex and pornography to the point that it creates issues. Not the sole reason, mind: there are plenty of claims from porn stars or former porn stars that the industry is abusive or exploitative.

 

[Belaam]

When pornstars lament their career choice, and suffer visible pain as a result, should viewers of porn feel any shame that they're consumers in an industry where a portion of the industry's employees feel such shame and spiritual pain? Even if the pain is brought upon themselves where no one forced the pornstars to choose the path they chose? Does the viewer bear any responsibility whatsoever for the pornstar's pain?"

I think going into a job, you should know the dangers and benefits of that job. Assuming you were informed, that shoudl be it. Let's rework the question a bit:

When Army Infantry members lament their career choice, and suffer visible pain as a result, should pro-war voters feel any shame that they were partially responsible for any physical or emotional pain our soldiers endure? Even if these soldiers were not drafted, but enlisted? Does the voter bear any responsibility whatsoever for the soldier's pain?

This actually isn't a bad analogy for several reasons. As a veteran, I knew quite a few people who enlisted to support their families, and often pregnant high school girlfriends who they were now marrying. Like the sex industry, the military requires very little education, and while it may possibly lead to a much better life, for most it will just be something that can get them through a rough patch. And both possess heightened physical dangers.

Now, obviously, as a whole, society has a far higher opinion of soldiers than sex workers. But I'm not sure that the consumers of porn are any more or less guilty of what happens to some porn stars than voters are responsible for what happens to soldiers. And, of course, I'd point out that huge numbers of people work in both fields and are happy with their time in those jobs. Sadly, the sex industry both pays more and is safer, so perhaps voters should feel more qualms than viewers of pornography.

Finally, I don't think past profession should matter that much in future professions, though the number of veterans in congress and the number of ex-sex workers who have problems in later careers seems to place me in the minority of that view.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

The only thing that bothers me as a rather regular indulger of porn, is the knowledge of how horrible some of the male actors and directors treat the female actors. Other than that though, it doesn't really bother me. Sure, I wish the slut-shaming vibe would die down - just because someone did porn does not un-qualify them from doing anything else in life (as Sasha Grey is proving) and it doesn't make them any less of a person than you. But that's more of a fault of pricks, rather than the pornstars themselves.

 

[Something Amyss]

Pornstars get paid ludacris amounts of cash for things regular people dream of doing.

You know, dream jobs rarely live up to reality.

They made the choice to sacrifice their integrity for a lot of cash. It's called being greedy.

Do you have figures on porn star income?

I'm not really even sure how you can infer greed, or pretend this is about integrity, but I'd like to know the actual figures rather than vague statements that they make "ludacris" money.

 

[razer17]

Yeah well...If you've ever been on Efukt(google it yourself), there are quite a few breakdown video clips.

Well, that's an awful site. I think that's put the final nail in my porn watching coffin.

 

[Vivi22]

When pornstars lament their career choice, and suffer visible pain as a result, should viewers of porn feel any shame that they're consumers in an industry where a portion of the industry's employees feel such shame and spiritual pain? Even if the pain is brought upon themselves where no one forced the pornstars to choose the path they chose? Does the viewer bear any responsibility whatsoever for the pornstar's pain?

G-rated Shock Value
"No bad words. Just bad ideas."

Unless you believe that you bear some responsibility for hiring an accountant who hate's his job, or buying groceries at a store where the cashier hates their job, the answer is an obvious no.

 

[Tom_green_day]

To all the people saying it ruins their lives and stuff and degrades them. I read a study somewhere, and for females on average the happiest people were porn stars. They don't all do it through necessity, this may be a different view than many hold on this website but there are people that have sex for fun.

 

[Krantos]

It's only a fact if you can prove it... Source?

What? That the porn industry is exploitative, or the porn stars are often treated badly? Neither of those two points is particularly controversial.

Actually, I've never heard of a legitimate porn star being ill treated by the industry.

Now, "Porn Star" generally refers to an "Actor/Actress" who does porn. If they have in anyway been compelled to enter the business, they're not a Porn Star. They're a sex slave.

Do Porn Stars face a certain social stigma? Yes, but that's something they knew going into it, so... not really exploitative.

 

[Callate]

I don't have a wide range of experience on this issue to draw from... But the impression I've gotten, at least of modern adult performers, is that regrets upon attempting to "retire" tend to come more from other people in their lives refusing to let the past go and making associations and assumptions about them based on it, rather than what they actually used to do.

I'm sure that isn't true of everyone, though.

But conversely: do you feel bad about watching a movie like The Twilight Zone or The Crow, where actors actually died during the shooting? Or any particular action movies, or even action movies as a genre, because the same might be said of some stunt performers?

If someone was coerced into the industry as a teenager and got addled on drugs and burned out, sure, I feel bad for them, but my (again, limited) sense is that such stories are with increasing frequency the exception rather than the commonality, at least with professional pornography. Other than that, if one buys into the whole "consenting adults" idea- and a whole lot of our society, including democratic representation, depends on that buy-in- why should one feel guilt?

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Only if their situation is such that the choice is between that and no work at all. Which is rarely the case, as I understand. So no. They could be a waitress or whatever, but that doesn't pay as well. You go for easy money and a low bar of entry profession, it's your decision. On the other hand, we have poaching. If people didn't buy ivory souvenirs and fucking powdered tiger's paw for their quack medicine, nobody would kill rhinos and tigers, because there'd be no profit at the end. However, it also takes place in areas where there aren't necessarily a lot of viable career choices. So in that case, it's up to the demand side to stop, because the supply side doesn't have the option.

 

[ShadowStar42]

Interesting question. I'm leaning towards the response that if the pornstar willingly gave their consent, without any coercion or lack of other options, then they're responsible for their own career choice and any negative consequences that may come of it.

It becomes greyer though if they chose that option to avoid otherwise crushing poverty, similar to Fantine's choice to become a prostitute in Les Miserables to keep her young daughter from starvation, in that case arguably the consumers hold some responsibility. But then again, if those consumers didn't exist then she might have no options at-all and have died much earlier... it's complicated.

Most people here seem to be responding to the perceived morality of porn itself, but I want to address the points you made directly.

I work at UPS, it is a no-education required job that is often a last resort for people who take it, myself included. I don't know anyone who is proud to work at UPS or who (if they've been there for less than a few years) wouldn't dump it for something else given the opportunity. Many people who work with me admit to avoiding the subject of where they work with their friends because they feel a certain sense of shame over the choices that brought them there. Physical injury is also a common problem with UPS, you will rarely find a person who has been there for more than 5 years who does not suffer from one form of chronic pain disorder or another.

All of this being the case, should you feel shame for shipping your products?

 

[Fireaxe]

Lets put this another way: if you work at McDonalds and are upset with your life because of this job, who is at fault -- the person who eats at McDonalds or you for not getting a better job?

Clearly this is the fault of the person who does a job they don't enjoy rather than the consumer of the product.

 

[TallanKhan]

The question is interesting. Consumers support the market so from that point of view consumers are responsible for creating a demand for Porn as a product and without that demand there would be no industry. However, the question was not to do with how Pornstars are treated as employees, but rather are we responsible for the pain caused by the the regret of their choice to become a pornstar. As such i would have to say no.

Should someone feel guilty for eating fast food if a man in his fifties working at McDonalds feels he has wasted his life and regrets his choices?

 

[IceForce]

Is this thread even allowed? I thought they added a "PG-13" rule to the code of conduct?

 

[kaizen2468]

As far as my own moral compass goes, if they do it willingly I have no problem viewing it. I assume any porn actress or actor did it of their own free will. That said, on the occasion where I learn that an actress or actor had little choice in doing it, or were abused or died as a result of it, I no longer view their material. I used to follow a lot of porn actresses but learned later they didn't like their career or were taken advantage of, in which case I stopped looking at them.

I actually like following their personal twitters and such. It's more personal, I know they're doing it because they want to.