Pre-owned games banned? Are you cool with that?

[SonOfVoorhees]

Pre owned games being stopped will not turn into new game sales.....which is what companies think. Most games I buy used games its normally those that I know will only take 2 days to complete or that I bought it to kill time. I would never buy these games brand new at fall price.

 

[Yopaz]

Let it be known that I am not a fan of buying used games or selling my used games. I support day 1 DLC and to some degree online passes. I am completely against making it impossible to use preowned games.

It's our right to sell our possessions, it's our right to seek out cheaper options. They are profiting from using the market and trade laws the way it suits them. I want the same for us. This is coming from a person who hasn't sold any games and I haven't bought any used games. I do play my games on other consoles than my own though and I love that. I don't want them to change that.

 

[lapan]

NO. I think it would kill the entire industry. No more taking games to friends houses or letting them borrow them I guess? It would just be ignorant. What's next? Can't buy used movies or books?

PC gaming has NO used game sales, except it still exists.

Its either console gaming dies under the weight of spending and used game sales, or console gaming uses DRM and steps into 2003. The 90s model of game business no longer works. Back in the 90s, games were cheap to make, but now only AAA games are made anymore. I doubt console gamers will want to stop playing AAA games, so DRM is the only way to go.

The industry will not die by the lack of used games. PC gaming proved that. Besides, the days of "split screen" multiplayer at a friend's house are LOOOOOOONG gone. So that point is kinda moot on the "go to a friend's house for fun" idea.

But that's wrong. Maybe Steam games and digital downloads can't be resold anymore, but that's still not 100% of the pc games.

And if split screen multiplayer days are long over then i guess my sessions of Halo, Dynasty Warriors or Resident Evil 5 never happened...

 

[lapan]

NO. I think it would kill the entire industry. No more taking games to friends houses or letting them borrow them I guess? It would just be ignorant. What's next? Can't buy used movies or books?

PC gaming has NO used game sales, except it still exists.

Its either console gaming dies under the weight of spending and used game sales, or console gaming uses DRM and steps into 2003. The 90s model of game business no longer works. Back in the 90s, games were cheap to make, but now only AAA games are made anymore. I doubt console gamers will want to stop playing AAA games, so DRM is the only way to go.

The industry will not die by the lack of used games. PC gaming proved that. Besides, the days of "split screen" multiplayer at a friend's house are LOOOOOOONG gone. So that point is kinda moot on the "go to a friend's house for fun" idea.

But that's wrong. Maybe Steam games and digital downloads can't be resold anymore, but that's still not 100% of the pc games.

And if split screen multiplayer days are long over then i guess my sessions of Halo, Dynasty Warriors or Resident Evil 5 never happened...

I mean the days when split screen was needed are long gone. We have the internet now, and the multiplayer for AAA games attest to that. The necessity for friends to be on your couch is gone. They would rather sit at their houses over the net instead of sharing a screen.

PC games are never resold for a simple reason. PC games are not like console games. You just don't put it in and play. Most of the time PC games not from steam use key codes or other form of DRM, and a lot of them are one use only. Stores just don't want to take that chance, even before steam. Used PC games are such a liability they practically don't exist outside of ancient games which are only sought after the same way old cartridges of old mario games are. Purely on a rarity scale, which is the reason a used PS2 copy of X-COM: UFO DEFENSE costs 98$.

There is no used PC game market. There never was. Even returning a PC game to certain stores is like pulling teeth. PC games had DRM for decades now. The only used PC game market is for rare physical copies of ancient PC games, and the costs for those is extortionate and only for collectors, not gamers.

Even if you did find a "used" PC game, it would most likely be a scam. Much like the people who sell PC games like Team Fortress 2 on Ebay to unsuspecting people. There are many reasons why PC games never had a used games market.

But that's wrong. Maybe used PC games weren't sold in stores, but they sure as hell were sold by private persons or over plattforms like ebay or amazon. I wouldn't have been able to buy Jedi Academy for example if not for that fact.
And just because your friends would rather play over internet than have actual contact with you doesnt mean that's true for everyone.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

While I already plan on leaving consoles behind, if they cut pre-owned games then that'll be the final nail in the coffin. Microsoft treat their entire player base like shit, all they are to them is an advertising opportunity now; the consumer-producer relationship resembles that of a warden and a prisoner.

 

[Fijiman]

The people who are starting and spreading these rumors need to stop being stupid. If they were to ban used games that would effectively render about two thirds of all the games I own now useless. It would also create all kinds of new problems.(and from here on I'm talking as if other companies decided to jump on the "ban" wagon as well) One problem is with companies like Gamestop which have huge amounts of used games.(have you seen their PS2 sections?) To ban used games would mean that they would be forced to get rid of the hundreds or even thousands of used games they have in each store and they would lose a huge amount of money just by doing that. Another problem comes for when someone buys a new game, but then decides the don't like it. A person in this case wouldn't be able to do anything but throw out the game they just spent sixty bucks on because it would now be considered used and therefor useless. To ban used games, even if only one company did it, would create: a huge loss in revenue for all parties involved in the making of and selling of games for that company's system as well as the company itself, a huge increase in the amount of waste created by game industry because of the fact that used games would not be worth anything, and a huge decrease in the consumers' trust in in that company because they made their used games useless and are practically forcing them to buy all games new instead of being able to buy used or even give a game to a friend or something. Fortunately, I highly doubt that any self respecting company in the game industry would be stupid enough to actually do something like that anytime soon.

 

[lapan]

Again, not recent games. I would haphazard a guess that Jedi Acedemy has pretty lenient protection. Much like Arcanum was just put in and install. A market for old games hardly serves the modern gamer now does it? retro gamers and collectors would benefit, but not the regular gamer. Making the used game market effectively nonexistent outside specialized pockets.

Yes, most recent games use methods that effictively kill of used game sales already. Your wording however said there was no market at all.

I don't think it's a good evolution of the market anyways. any game a developer doesn't deem profitable anymore will vanish without a used market. Noone will ever be able to play these games anymore except for pirating. If anything this will further hurt the economy and will cause classics or niche games to dissapear.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

PC gaming has NO used game sales, except it still exists.

Its either console gaming dies under the weight of spending and used game sales, or console gaming uses DRM and steps into 2003. The 90s model of game business no longer works. Back in the 90s, games were cheap to make, but now only AAA games are made anymore. I doubt console gamers will want to stop playing AAA games, so DRM is the only way to go.

The industry will not die by the lack of used games. PC gaming proved that. Besides, the days of "split screen" multiplayer at a friend's house are LOOOOOOONG gone. So that point is kinda moot on the "go to a friend's house for fun" idea.

This is basically the way I see it.

I'm no economics expert, and obviously console games are different than PC games. But I don't understand why people raise a ruckus about this and the used games market all the while ignoring the fact that the PC market has been put through this ages ago.

I've seen essayworthy posts in this thread explaining that this violates consumer rights, and that consumers have "economic rights" and that "all possessions are worth money" and that every consumer reserves the right to sell their possessions since their possessions have value to them......Except PC games.

And that's what I don't understand. Why do we accept this for PC games and treat console games differently? Why is it okay for "consumer rights" to apply to console games, and not PC games?

 

[Pebblig]

Not cool bro. If you're gonna make every game "single-use" essentially, you might as well make everything download only. Like Steam, but on consoles.

They can all fuck right off if they do this, I'll simply convert wholly to PC gaming.

 

[lapan]

PC gaming has NO used game sales, except it still exists.

Its either console gaming dies under the weight of spending and used game sales, or console gaming uses DRM and steps into 2003. The 90s model of game business no longer works. Back in the 90s, games were cheap to make, but now only AAA games are made anymore. I doubt console gamers will want to stop playing AAA games, so DRM is the only way to go.

The industry will not die by the lack of used games. PC gaming proved that. Besides, the days of "split screen" multiplayer at a friend's house are LOOOOOOONG gone. So that point is kinda moot on the "go to a friend's house for fun" idea.

This is basically the way I see it.

I'm no economics expert, and obviously console games are different than PC games. But I don't understand why people raise a ruckus about this and the used games market all the while ignoring the fact that the PC market has been put through this ages ago.

I've seen essayworthy posts in this thread explaining that this violates consumer rights, and that consumers have "economic rights" and that "all possessions are worth money" and that every consumer reserves the right to sell their possessions since their possessions have value to them......Except PC games.

And that's what I don't understand. Why do we accept this for PC games and treat console games differently? Why is it okay for "consumer rights" to apply to console games, and not PC games?

But todays games will become old games someday, and with some companies that can happen in only a few years. People that didn't buy the game early enough wont have any way to get those games anymore.

I'd in no way call myself a retro gamer or collector, but i'd still sometimes buy titles i missed when they were in retail because i didnt know about them, or didnt have the console or money at the time to buy them.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Destroying the used game market would be the first step towards the destruction of the entire gaming industry.

Used games keep the developers working hard. It's not good enough to make a game that people want to play, you have to make a game that people want to keep playing, otherwise they'll just sell it to someone else when they finish with it.

Pfft. PC gaming has NO used game sales, and its perfectly fine.

(the quote is from earlier in the forum, i dont usually post shit so its not done properly but whatever, fuck microsoft, capitalist pigs, too bad they don't read these forums, maybe they'd have a clue... anyway)
"TheKasp:
Like in all the threads: I have next to no love left for used games or people buying used. You are supporting a chain of stores which are run by assholes, abuse their customers, employees and the one industry relying on first hand sales through them.

And I am also a PC gamer. I just laugh at all you nonsense prophecies about the future of consoles when games start to be bound to an account or such."

Get over yourself dude, not all of us have five grand to spend on a PC that will run most next gen games at anywhere near console performance, let alone the hundreds of dollars it would take every 6 months to update the hardware. And having said that, microsoft looks to be doing a pretty good job in screwing people who wanna play games on windows 7 so far anyway. So onto the consoles, basically there is NO WAY a bunch of old dudes who want to fatten up their already bursting wallets to implement a failsafe "anti-used-game" ANYTHING, because there will always be people right up to developers themselves implementing ways to get around it. Having said that, basically microsoft has 2 choices; 1. Get over themselves and their addiction to "increasing profit margins", and scrap this plan... or 2. Go ahead with their plan and loose far more profits than they could ever predict.
Implementing a mechanism to prevent games from being played on all consoles bar the original will cause a snowball effect in piracy. It may even cause proper organised piracy to a scale of which we havnt seen. The reason being that people are going to realise that not only would they have to pay the full price of every game, but also that the absence of a used games market will just cause a push actual straight up piracy. Like i said, gen y and good natured developers will be able to get past any half assed security microsoft installs on their discs/consoles, and once that is done, seeders baby, you only need one to get the ball rolling, and then NO ONE gets money. Microsoft gets paid by one dude, who then can pirate the game to whoever he wishes, the best part? all those people who used to be morally opposed to piracy wont give a fuck anyway, because, like its been said before in this forum, who wants to be forced to pay full price for a game that 1, you dont even know is going to be good, and 2, you cant get rid of if you hate?

Oh lord this post of made of lol. five grand? My PC cost 800$, and that's when I WENT ALL OUT ON THE PARTS.

Anyone can tell you the price tag of PC gaming is cheap.

If you cannot pay for console gaming, and you are not savvy enough to build your own PC, quit complaining. Just abandon gaming entirely and take up another hobby. Period. Gaming is luxury, not a need.

Also: Developers cannot change the DRM placed by microsoft. Consoles are not open, they are platforms owned by corporations, and you play by their rules. If you change the DRM, you WILL be sued into the ground and barred from ever making a console game again. Consoles are not PCs. There is console tax and console regulations.

and console piracy? Are you seriously suggesting people can somehow go through the many steps to pirate console games? When they cant even build their own PC? For the PS3, it requires an outdated version, a couple changes to the settings using a flash drive, and an external hard drive. There is no way any of them can manage that. All the people capable of doing that would just go to PC and leave console gaming. 99% of the games are multiplatform anyway.

Besides, console gaming is practically on its way down hill. AAA games are not cheap, and they rather kill used games than risk 100 million dollars. Why do you think games cost 60$ now? Because of greed? No, because AAA games are expensive.

While I agree that the estimate of five grand for a gaming PC is ridiculously excessive (console gamer here), you'd be pretty naive to think that "console gaming is practically on its way down hill". They're not going anywhere.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

As honorable as your intentions are, I fucking hate that kind of attitude. It forces the over-saturation of games that advertise multiplayer as the primary feature and the single-player is an afterthought.

People have lost their appreciation for games because no one seems to stop and care about singleplayer games anymore.

Actually it doesn't. That's simply dev laziness in action.

There are many ways to keep the customer playing. Look at GTA 4, RDR, ME 1 and 2, DAO, Skyrim, FO3 and NV, DX:HR, even Portal for christ's sake. It's a little something called replayability.

So with the exception of Portal, it's pretty much "Make your game open-world or die?"

Since when was open world expanded to include "linear mission-based story plus a few side quests?" Bioware has never made an open world game. Not ever.

"few"?! The number of sidequests in ME and KOTOR was quite a bit more than "few". I consider open-world to be any game that allows me to choose the order in which events are completed and involves traveling to multiple regions (which also don't have a set order)

I should rephrase what I said before; I just feel like people have lost the appreciation for a good linear game. I know I'm going to get a ton of flack for this, but I personally found the Modern Warfare 2 campaign to be one of the single greatest linear campaigns I've ever played.

 

[Vegosiux]

wait what? thats stupid, your opinion (misinformed one) is that every game thats ever resold ever is a bad game. That categorically incorrect, some games just have less re playability, or no multiplayer. That doesn't mean that it wasn't good when you played through it.

Only that I've never said that, and it's not my opinion at all.

Although i feel that making these points is somehow wasted on a person who makes such unwieldy statements such as yours.

You mean those statements you accused me of making that I didn't actually make?

Bottom line is, there's a reason people re-sell their games. Usually that reason is they see no reason to keep it. Address that issue, industry.