Pro-IP Act is signed into Law

[vxicepickxv]

These guys make communism sound like a BAD thing.

[sarcasm]Our current corporate oligarchy of the United States is awesome.[/sarcasm]

I want enough money to be able to buy my own senators and congressional representatives, but I doubt I'll ever make it.

 

[AlphaWolf13]

Weird, it's like your logic disappeared. Since when is ONE Ferarri made for thousands/millions/billions of people??

Your comparison is completely unrelated to this argument. It's just illogical.

hey buddy i didn't bring up the ferarri/movie bit. yes, movies are made for a lot of people. thats why you pay only 12 bucks to see it, as they're hoping enough people will pay to see it to make their money back. Ferarri work in exactly the same way, except instead of making one car for lots of people, they make lots of cars for a lots of people. they put a certain amount of money in, and expect a certain amount out.

If we take the fact that only one person can steal a ferarri, that means that the company only loses that much money. movies however are much more expensive, and need much more return on their dollar, so any theft can and will hurt their revenue, quite severely.

On a side note, am I the only one who's actually kinda happy about this? I mean do you people not WANT games to make money or something? im starting to worry i'm turning into a troll

I'm not sure how you get the "movies are more expensive" thing. Because it's not just "one" Ferrari that would be made, it's thousands. If you're going to use this as an example, you can't just look at the "one" Ferrari, you would have to look at the overall production of all those Ferraris made for consumers.

It's just a comparison that doesn't seem logical in any sense, because there is a MAJOR price difference, along with a lot of variables that don't apply (such as there is not "Major production" for Ferraris where each Ferrari after that is a simple "Copy" produced from the original like a movie is). It's just not logical to use this as an example.

Also when movies are made, it's that one standard price to make the movie (let's say a million) and then after that it's divided up between the movie theater prices, and actually buying the DVD. And if you look at major films, you'll see that the ammount of money put in at Movie theaters plus buying the DVDs will far outweigh the amount the movie cost. Even AFTER you take off the percentage the movie theaters get from showing the movie, and the percentage that it costs to produce that DVD.

EDIT: Sorry if this is sloppy, it's late and I'm tired...
DOUBLE EDIT: Meh, sorry if this offends. Anyways, I would say not to use the Ferrari/Movie bit, especially if you didn't start it, and it seems so illogical.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Why must you pay anything for justice? Should justice not be payed for by your taxes already?

 

[vxicepickxv]

And if you look at major films, you'll see that the ammount of money put in at Movie theaters plus buying the DVDs will far outweigh the amount the movie cost. Even AFTER you take off the percentage the movie theaters get from showing the movie, and the percentage that it costs to produce that DVD.

Yes, because EVERY big budget movie ALWAYS makes it profits back.

http://scribbleking.typepad.com/movie_scribblings/2006/02/top_ten_biggest.html

 

[Dys]

Provided you don't impede on my using or selling of my equipment/possesions your free to do whatever you damnwell please with them, and I have no issue with it.
Prehaps 'piracy' would is better described as plagiarism. Your stealing ideas and concept, not physical possessions, and as I said as long as you don't impede my ability to sell or make use of my work, your free to do what you want with it (this obviously means not distributing or marketing my work as your own).
It is silly to consider plagiarism as theft. It is different and has its own name.

"Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work."

"theft is the act of physicially removing the belongings of another"
I would say that plagiarism fits more closely, take out the part about claiming it as your own work and piracy is plagiarism (most crackers do claim credit for their work anyway)

 

[Caimekaze]

Hurrah, living in Australia.

 

[vxicepickxv]

How's the beach tax?

 

[Caimekaze]

Not too bad.
I get a discount if I really want it, and sometimes my partner just borrows the games from her work. xD

 

[742]

laws should focus more on protecting the innocent than punishing the guilty, besides, i know when IM punished i dont feel bad about what i did, and if i feel it was unjust i turn into a self righteous ***** and make hitler look like a reasonable mild mannered person who just wanted happy and smiles for everyone. stealing something noone will ever miss, a single drop of water from the ocean on some dicks private planet isnt as bad as taking food off a the table of a starving family, or candy from a baby.

and im sorry supply and demand just dont apply with intellectual property, its all about respect and the honor system, thats the only thing that can work and the further you stray from that the less people pay attention to it, and since its the only thing that can work your quite fucked.

also its pretty easy to cheer for the thieves when the person being stolen from has stolen from you(fuck you ea, that was NOT worth 50 dollars. but still, fuck you too MS, 300 dollars for three copies? YOUR FUCKING NUTS why is a word processor more expensive than an operating system!?), is fighting to take away your rights as a consumer(again, fuck you ea, your a convenient face, but fuck you too MS), and makes 50 trillion dollars a second.

but most of that is totally meaningless, traditional economics dont apply, all our ideas about value and property and ownership dont apply. they just dont, they make very little sense when applied to this, its like taking things you learned in literature classes and applying them to a game of chess or starcraft, its ridiculous and any success is purely coincidental or the result of everyone else being just as naive as you. i wanted to say something sorta different, but i cant quite think of the right words

 

[DannyDamage]

Indirectly it's an attempt to cut down on piracy, but at the end of the day it's the rich making sure they get richer. That's all these things are really ever intended for.

 

[jim_doki]

i'm staying away from this topic after this, because i can totally see myself turning into a troll on this one and may become personal shortly.

let me just say this. It's wrong to steal people's work. there is no justification for taking something that someone is trying to sell. regardless of whether its apples, cars or music makes no difference in my mind. remember this, it's not just big corporations that you hurt by stealing shit, you hurt a lot of 9-5ers, just like you. you hurt art itself.

so in closing i say bring on more antipiracy. I would love to see it eliminated but as long as there's shit to get for free people are going to do that and constantly claim that they are getting the rough end of the stick when they try to stop it. If you don't want to get busted, don't do illegal things.

SUPPORT MUSIC

 

[AlphaWolf13]

And if you look at major films, you'll see that the ammount of money put in at Movie theaters plus buying the DVDs will far outweigh the amount the movie cost. Even AFTER you take off the percentage the movie theaters get from showing the movie, and the percentage that it costs to produce that DVD.

Yes, because EVERY big budget movie ALWAYS makes it profits back.

http://scribbleking.typepad.com/movie_scribblings/2006/02/top_ten_biggest.html

Ya got me there, I can't deny that. I submit to being wrong on that particular statement.

 

[goodman528]

Trying to stop filesharing is by far the most stupid thing the music industry has done in a long time. Take a look at radio for example, how much is the music industry benefiting from stations playing their music for free on the radio? Yet, as you probably guessed, when radio first came out, the music industry saw it as their worst enemy. Filesharing is the same. (Another example would be the history of printed music sheets).

Anyone who's ever been to China will have realised the difference between filesharing and piracy; the formal is taking someone else's product, reproducing it, then selling it for a bigger profit then the artists; the latter is getting the music, and listening to it. See the difference? In piracy, your primary goal is to make money, you don't care about whether you are selling milk or melamine; in filesharing, your primary goal is to listen to their music, you don't make any money from it.

If I was in a band trying to make a living from music, then embracing filesharing would be by far the smartest thing to do. The musician's first priority is to produce good music, then the next priority is to ensure as many people know about you as possible. If you've ensured these two things, money and success will follow. But of course, do musicians today care more about music or money?

 

[OckhamIncarnate]

Aside from the rightful fear of current American political trends and mindset, my American cohorts, we're missing the point.

So thievery just got a little harder, big deal. Now 'Joe Six-Pack' (sorry) won't be quite as adept at pirating things he somehow feels entitled to. Once more, it will be left to the skilled and the determined to obtain things without free exchange of currency or services. They've built a better mousetrap so to speak. This is nothing new and, point of fact, has been a long time coming.

If you're really that angry at the law itself, make a change. Either move to change the law through the normal channels or become a 'better mouse'.

 

[werepossum]

Trying to stop filesharing is by far the most stupid thing the music industry has done in a long time. Take a look at radio for example, how much is the music industry benefiting from stations playing their music for free on the radio? Yet, as you probably guessed, when radio first came out, the music industry saw it as their worst enemy. Filesharing is the same. (Another example would be the history of printed music sheets).

Anyone who's ever been to China will have realised the difference between filesharing and piracy; the formal is taking someone else's product, reproducing it, then selling it for a bigger profit then the artists; the latter is getting the music, and listening to it. See the difference? In piracy, your primary goal is to make money, you don't care about whether you are selling milk or melamine; in filesharing, your primary goal is to listen to their music, you don't make any money from it.

If I was in a band trying to make a living from music, then embracing filesharing would be by far the smartest thing to do. The musician's first priority is to produce good music, then the next priority is to ensure as many people know about you as possible. If you've ensured these two things, money and success will follow. But of course, do musicians today care more about music or money?

Obviously you are an underpants gnome.
Step 1: Give away music.
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit

I especially like the way you blame the victim by asserting that musicians care about money rather than music; they are practically asking for it! Whereas you, stealing music without paying money for it, obviously care more about music than money.

Classy. And you've mixed up your explanations between file sharing and piracy, by the way.

 

[Alex_P]

Obviously you are an underpants gnome.
Step 1: Give away music.
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit

Well, this particular formula is known to work very well:

Step 1: Give away some music.
Step 2: Sell stuff to people who like that music.
Step 3: Profit.

The catch is, if the "stuff" in step 2 is more music, you usually need to figure out a way to separate your free music from your paid music. With radio and CDs, this is easy because you've got two different media. Also, the CD adds value by allowing you to play the music any time, which is something that users desire. With MP3s and CDs or MP3s and more MP3s, differentiating the free stuff from the profit-making stuff is a lot harder, so you mostly have to resort to asking nicely -- which, on occasion, does work out, but is definitely not something I'd bet a million dollars on. Selling music-related stuff that is not music itself is another option: concerts, t-shirts, &c.

-- Alex

 

[SteinFaust]

no. this is entirely preposterous. if i dl ONE song, all my electronic devices and the home i contain them in are forfeit to the government? no damn way.

seriously, if they want to stop piracy soooooo bad, they could take a stroll over to China, Thailand, 'Nam, or Naples. they ALL have criminally controlled piracy companies, and they actually MAKE MONEY off of their actions as opposed to a teen in his basement who downloads a few songs to rock out to every now and then.

then again, there is an even EASIER way-- you know, the one where groups put out a cd that actually has a cd's worth of good songs. I bought "Seeing Sounds" the other day, and I think N.E.R.D deserves the cost of a cd. anyone else know a group like that? haven't seen one in quite some time.

 

[jim_doki]

Obviously you are an underpants gnome.
Step 1: Give away music.
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit

Well, this particular formula is known to work very well:

Step 1: Give away some music.
Step 2: Sell stuff to people who like that music.
Step 3: Profit.

The catch is, if the "stuff" in step 2 is more music, you usually need to figure out a way to separate your free music from your paid music. With radio and CDs, this is easy because you've got two different media. Also, the CD adds value by allowing you to play the music any time, which is something that users desire. With MP3s and CDs or MP3s and more MP3s, differentiating the free stuff from the profit-making stuff is a lot harder, so you mostly have to resort to asking nicely -- which, on occasion, does work out, but is definitely not something I'd bet a million dollars on. Selling music-related stuff that is not music itself is another option: concerts, t-shirts, &c.

-- Alex

if we took that argument to any other business in the world, we would be taken to court and our employees would laugh.

Boss: "How about you work for free for a little while. we'll give you some money when your higher-ups produce something which has your name on it, and that you have to pay for"

empolyee: "..." *Fist to face*

if you can give me one explination as to why music is any different, i'll again, concede the point.

Trying to stop filesharing is by far the most stupid thing the music industry has done in a long time. Take a look at radio for example, how much is the music industry benefiting from stations playing their music for free on the radio? Yet, as you probably guessed, when radio first came out, the music industry saw it as their worst enemy. Filesharing is the same. (Another example would be the history of printed music sheets).

Anyone who's ever been to China will have realised the difference between filesharing and piracy; the formal is taking someone else's product, reproducing it, then selling it for a bigger profit then the artists; the latter is getting the music, and listening to it. See the difference? In piracy, your primary goal is to make money, you don't care about whether you are selling milk or melamine; in filesharing, your primary goal is to listen to their music, you don't make any money from it.

If I was in a band trying to make a living from music, then embracing filesharing would be by far the smartest thing to do. The musician's first priority is to produce good music, then the next priority is to ensure as many people know about you as possible. If you've ensured these two things, money and success will follow. But of course, do musicians today care more about music or money?

and you. let me ask you something. if you had a job (I'm assuming you don't due to the fact you have no idea about the value of hard work). what would YOU do if your boss said "Do it for free" or "do it because you love it"?

no. this is entirely preposterous. if i dl ONE song, all my electronic devices and the home i contain them in are forfeit to the government? no damn way.

seriously, if they want to stop piracy soooooo bad, they could take a stroll over to China, Thailand, 'Nam, or Naples. they ALL have criminally controlled piracy companies, and they actually MAKE MONEY off of their actions as opposed to a teen in his basement who downloads a few songs to rock out to every now and then.

then again, there is an even EASIER way-- you know, the one where groups put out a cd that actually has a cd's worth of good songs. I bought "Seeing Sounds" the other day, and I think N.E.R.D deserves the cost of a cd. anyone else know a group like that? haven't seen one in quite some time.

"this is bull! All I did was break into somebody's house and take one thing!" this is what you sound like to me.
and as for groups that put out consistant work of awesome:
Foo Fighters
Weezer
AC/DC
Queen
Nirvana
Tool

So yeah, when your boss cuts your pay saying things like "well if you did a better job" tell me how it feels, then tell me you think its fair

 

[SteinFaust]

and you. let me ask you something. if you had a job (I'm assuming you don't due to the fact you have no idea about the value of hard work). what would YOU do if your boss said "Do it for free" or "do it because you love it"?


"this is bull! All I did was break into somebody's house and take one thing!" this is what you sound like to me.

So yeah, when your boss cuts your pay saying things like "well if you did a better job" tell me how it feels, then tell me you think its fair

answering--
first thing about bosses and free labor. that's called a volunteer. people do that all the time. they often congregate in groups called "non-profit organizations". they do stuff for the love of doing stuff.

thing about B and E's. no that is not like a B&E. that is the malicious clandestine theft of something with intent to "fence" for profit. what shareware users do is more the equivalent of walking out of a bank with a free pen or a lolipop(mine gives out both). i have no intent to sell said items, and their low physical value is a sub-pittance compared to what the entire corporate machine is making.

thing about doing a better job. i have a good work ethic, and being that my company doesn't suck at life, i'd be more than understanding if i got a pay cut or got fired for doing a sub-par job. what kind of society do YOU live in that doesn't get rid of terrible employees?

 

[The Lyre]

and you. let me ask you something. if you had a job (I'm assuming you don't due to the fact you have no idea about the value of hard work). what would YOU do if your boss said "Do it for free" or "do it because you love it"?

Quick point - I realise this was not addressed to me, but I resent the implication that all pirates are immoral, lazy arseholes.

Until recently (health issues) I did weekly volunteer work at a primary school, and did a week's worth (again, I volunteered, no salary) at the local library when they were short on employees - the fact that I torrent does not mean I am an immoral dick who is only using the idea of 'something for free' when it suits me.

I just take issue with the idea that pirates have no concept of hard work, morals and value.

Again, I realise that it was directed at one person, but I do feel that there was some generalisation - not just from you - going on.