Problems that men have to deal with

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neoontime

I forgot what this was before...
Jul 10, 2009
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Westaway said:
But being psychologically strong is the polar opposite of being brain dead and emotionally broken. Being strong is always relevant, from performance in sports, to having a physical presence when you walk into a room, to getting girls. Being strong will always garner respect, just as being intelligent does. Being physically strong shows dedication to working on yourself and will always be attractive.
The thing is, physically strong hasn't been on top since the creation of civilized society. Although from physical strength contributes to fitness biologically, not even the most important trait as other factors contribute to health beyond fitness, as fitness doesn't necessary connect to appearance and noticeable health, it never held a high attribute to success in society. Although always a virtue made important, much of it is rationally contributed on how the elite control society. The elite tend to be those of higher intelligence and status that did not rely on their own fitness for power. They found their mating success through position alone. Emphasis on male fitness though benefited these elites greatly. The male stereotype of being strong, unemotional, and incredibly loyal meant elites had perfect enough soldiers to die on their behalf while accepting their roles honorable and epitomized. Keeping these traits epitomized by males meant elites could always have men to strive for strength and virtues that kept them in place to die for their causes. Biological male virtues apply more to animals that have not reached societies where power (positional since we haven't put physically strongest since per-historic times) leads to mates and better chance at survival.
Being strong garners the illusion of respect due to the pawned role elites in society have placed on men. You can see this in how soldiers, those who exhibit strength and heavy male traits, are treated greatly in use but disrespected as finished pawns after their jobs are finished.
 

ZZoMBiE13

Ate My Neighbors
Oct 10, 2007
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erttheking said:
Well I can tell you a few things.

For one, being a tall and big guy, I know how you feel about the basketball question. I'm Texan, so for me it was football, but the ubiquity of the question remains. It's a drag, but you cannot let it get to you. Most folks aren't assuming so much as they're trying to make conversation. We're social creatures and for a lot of people, it's a solid ice-breaker. It may suck answering the same question over and over, but I doubt the scorn you notice is all on their side. I.E. I imagine you're projecting a little bit. And that's not an accusation, I know I did it when I was a teen and in my 20s.

As you get older, you find the balance and you stop caring what others think. At 42 I like a lot of traditional "manly" things. But you know, I like a lot of pretty "girly" things too, speaking traditionally. I'm of a mind that if it makes a person happy and hurts no one, it doesn't matter what society says. Like you I had a good family who didn't judge and taught me to worry about me and the rest would sort itself out.

So I can sit and sip scotch whiskey when I'm feeling like it, and I can spend 30 minutes making my hair look the way I like it. I can watch 80s action films and RomComs alike and find the art in either even if they are traditionally coded male and female. Bottom line, it'll get better. Focus on your writing and get great at it. Get published. In a few years, those folks who made you feel awkward will want to interview you and ask about your next novel (or whatever you want to do with your craft).

Good luck! :)
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
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insaninater said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Casual Shinji said:
Not The Bees said:
Casual Shinji said:
Women? :p

Seriously though, living at home with your parents. Even if my situation is not as clear cut, I'm still living at home with my parents.

...

Yeah, that sensation just now was your inner you instinctively scoffing at the idea of a nearly 32-year old man still living with his mommy and daddy.
Hey, it happens. In this economy, we're lucky we're not all living with your parents. Seriously. *blink* Can we move in?
Hey man, I was living with my parents before the collapsed economy made it cool -- I can't have some fakers cramping my style.
Me too, and then the economy went to shit and I said to hell with this, I'm gonna do the opposite. So now I live with my father-in-law... lol, is that like a trope inversion or something? I'm not always sure how that works.

OT: Well things I have to deal with as a man?
Note: this may get a bit personal

1. Sitting down and not harming two very precious parts of the anatomy. I'll leave it at that, but yes that is a problem for me sometimes.

2. I hate to shave my face, not because I'm lazy but because I always tend to get bad razor burn. Damn sensitive skin that no lotion available can soothe.

3. Never being able to understand women. I live in a house with my daughter and wife, it can drive me absolutely batshit crazy. Being a whole different configuration of hormones makes for some odd things, and its maddening. But hey I accept that as a guy I'll never understand a woman completely and I'm fine with that. I wish my wife would grasp that part though... :)
Why are people acting like women don't have to shave? Women have it a lot worse when it comes to shaving. If you're a dude, you can just grow a beard if you want, nobody bats an eye, people don't let that fly if you're a woman. Plus as dudes we don't have to worry about shaving our legs and pits and such.
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
5,499
0
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insaninater said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
insaninater said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Casual Shinji said:
Not The Bees said:
Casual Shinji said:
Women? :p

Seriously though, living at home with your parents. Even if my situation is not as clear cut, I'm still living at home with my parents.

...

Yeah, that sensation just now was your inner you instinctively scoffing at the idea of a nearly 32-year old man still living with his mommy and daddy.
Hey, it happens. In this economy, we're lucky we're not all living with your parents. Seriously. *blink* Can we move in?
Hey man, I was living with my parents before the collapsed economy made it cool -- I can't have some fakers cramping my style.
Me too, and then the economy went to shit and I said to hell with this, I'm gonna do the opposite. So now I live with my father-in-law... lol, is that like a trope inversion or something? I'm not always sure how that works.

OT: Well things I have to deal with as a man?
Note: this may get a bit personal

1. Sitting down and not harming two very precious parts of the anatomy. I'll leave it at that, but yes that is a problem for me sometimes.

2. I hate to shave my face, not because I'm lazy but because I always tend to get bad razor burn. Damn sensitive skin that no lotion available can soothe.

3. Never being able to understand women. I live in a house with my daughter and wife, it can drive me absolutely batshit crazy. Being a whole different configuration of hormones makes for some odd things, and its maddening. But hey I accept that as a guy I'll never understand a woman completely and I'm fine with that. I wish my wife would grasp that part though... :)
Why are people acting like women don't have to shave? Women have it a lot worse when it comes to shaving. If you're a dude, you can just grow a beard if you want, nobody bats an eye, people don't let that fly if you're a woman. Plus as dudes we don't have to worry about shaving our legs and pits and such.
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
But women do still have to shave their faces. Maybe not as much, but it's not like women just don't grow hair on their faces.
I understand that. I just don't personally know that many women who have to deal with a five-o-clock shadow at 1:30PM like I do though.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
I'm preeeeety sure women have hair in all the same places men do, its just a question of density
 

Doclector

New member
Aug 22, 2009
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Men often have to cope with emotional problems on their own, because frankly, a lot less people care, people are more likely to just tell you to grow up. Especially in relationships. Rejection is considered funny when it happens to a man, which is doubly painful when you're often the one who has to put their emotions on the line to make the first move. Of course, not saying someone doesn't have the right to reject a man but nobody seems to admit just how much that shit hurts.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
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Vault101 said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
I'm preeeeety sure women have hair in all the same places men do, its just a question of density
Exactly, down-like hair isn't noticeable or really needs to be shaved. I'm well aware there is hair there, but my experience has been that women don't get the same noticeable thickness. I didn't mean to claim they don't have any, just that its not the of the shaving necessity type. Yes I realize there are women who get that type of hair in similar/same areas, and I can sympathize with them on it. My whole point was that there are far far more men who have to deal with shaving their faces constantly than there are women who do. I've also been written up at a job for not shaving in a timely manner (even though I had bad razor burn and a doctors note saying I wasn't supposed to shave at that time). Aside from modeling/acting, I don't know of any jobs a woman could have that would put shaving as a requirement, but hey I could be wrong.
 

Aesir23

New member
Jul 2, 2009
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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Vault101 said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
I'm preeeeety sure women have hair in all the same places men do, its just a question of density
Exactly, down-like hair isn't noticeable or really needs to be shaved. I'm well aware there is hair there, but my experience has been that women don't get the same noticeable thickness. I didn't mean to claim they don't have any, just that its not the of the shaving necessity type. Yes I realize there are women who get that type of hair in similar/same areas, and I can sympathize with them on it. My whole point was that there are far far more men who have to deal with shaving their faces constantly than there are women who do. I've also been written up at a job for not shaving in a timely manner (even though I had bad razor burn and a doctors note saying I wasn't supposed to shave at that time). Aside from modeling/acting, I don't know of any jobs a woman could have that would put shaving as a requirement, but hey I could be wrong.
I think it really depends. It's not so much required as severely frowned upon in a professionalism sense. Wear a skirt to work? Better make sure your legs are shaved.

With women and facial hair, I imagine it's just more of the "She has visible facial hair. Eeew/She's hideous/etc" reaction that seems to be commonplace that's bothersome. At least, that's something that's always bothered me about it.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
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Aesir23 said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Vault101 said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
I'm preeeeety sure women have hair in all the same places men do, its just a question of density
Exactly, down-like hair isn't noticeable or really needs to be shaved. I'm well aware there is hair there, but my experience has been that women don't get the same noticeable thickness. I didn't mean to claim they don't have any, just that its not the of the shaving necessity type. Yes I realize there are women who get that type of hair in similar/same areas, and I can sympathize with them on it. My whole point was that there are far far more men who have to deal with shaving their faces constantly than there are women who do. I've also been written up at a job for not shaving in a timely manner (even though I had bad razor burn and a doctors note saying I wasn't supposed to shave at that time). Aside from modeling/acting, I don't know of any jobs a woman could have that would put shaving as a requirement, but hey I could be wrong.
I think it really depends. It's not so much required as severely frowned upon in a professionalism sense. Wear a skirt to work? Better make sure your legs are shaved.

With women and facial hair, I imagine it's just more of the "She has visible facial hair. Eeew/She's hideous/etc" reaction that seems to be commonplace that's bothersome. At least, that's something that's always bothered me about it.
I might be one of the rare people who don't care about the aesthetic thing, I've always felt that its a personal image issue and not something other folks should really care about. I just hate to shave my face for multiple reasons. I've run into a disconnect though in some foodservice jobs I've had where guys can't have long hair because of a health issue but women are allowed as long as they put it up. I don't see that as "men are being held back" but rather that women are being held to different standards on that issue. I called a general manager out on this before and they were less than receptive on it. It wasn't that I wanted long hair or women to cut theirs, I just wanted to see a silly outdated aesthetic non-issue masked by "health concerns" that were totally contradictory be taken out of use. Its just silly.
Actually I think the whole thing is silly. Unless there's a hygiene issue involved, it shouldn't matter what someone looks like or whether they shave or not.
 

DementedSheep

New member
Jan 8, 2010
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Vault101 said:
DementedSheep said:
A lot of the stupid is stupid and pointless and face very real issues but considering I don't think women should be acting like "women" I certainly don't want men to start.
define "acting like women"
Note that women is in quotation marks. I don't necessarily think stuff is inherent. Still I'm talking about things like being overly emotional and sensitive, screaming and crying and carrying on over stupid things, being fearful of everything (every-time I see a women get silly over a bug or mouse I want to slap them) or getting hurt, "talking" about their emotional problems without a purpose and going to councillors for nothing, inability to handle physical pain, fucking about with clothing and make-up even when the end result is crippling, obsessing over relationships and drama (I despise most media targeted at girls), being passive and being content to leech off of a spouse. A lot of women are far too comfortable being incompetent and needing help or even worse handing a task completely over to someone with simple things that you really shouldn't need help with. Even in a lot of women's fiction the girl ends up being completely outclassed by the guys and I end up wondering why we have them as the POV character. It seem a lot of women would rather attach themselves to a hero rather than be one. I see men lament being expected to be strong, stoic, capable and able to provide but everyone should want to be that. Having shame for negative traits and failures is a good thing within reason.
 

mecegirl

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May 19, 2013
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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Vault101 said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I'm not. I was commenting on how, as a guy, shaving my face is extremely annoying and I'd give anything to not have to do that and its one of the things I envy about women. Also I've shaved my entire body before and as a guy thats still much harder than a woman considering we tend to get hair in more places than they do.
I'm preeeeety sure women have hair in all the same places men do, its just a question of density
Exactly, down-like hair isn't noticeable or really needs to be shaved. I'm well aware there is hair there, but my experience has been that women don't get the same noticeable thickness. I didn't mean to claim they don't have any, just that its not the of the shaving necessity type. Yes I realize there are women who get that type of hair in similar/same areas, and I can sympathize with them on it. My whole point was that there are far far more men who have to deal with shaving their faces constantly than there are women who do. I've also been written up at a job for not shaving in a timely manner (even though I had bad razor burn and a doctors note saying I wasn't supposed to shave at that time). Aside from modeling/acting, I don't know of any jobs a woman could have that would put shaving as a requirement, but hey I could be wrong.
Overall shaving is something that both sexes have their difficulties with. Most women use tweezers, a hair removal cream, or wax to get rid of the hair on their faces. And I can't think of too many women that would go to work with obviously unshaven legs or armpits unless they were wearing clothes that would cover it. It shouldn't matter, but social conditioning tends to hold fast.

Not all workplaces have issues with a well trimmed beard. Nor does society at large. But if a woman goes somewhere while obviously unshaven then she can be considered unhygienic. Which is weird since body hair has little to do with hygiene.
But yes, women don't have to remove hair from their faces that often. Usually it is the hair on our legs and pubic area that grows back the fastest. And if you think razor burn on your face is bad try getting it on your bikini line (ah youth, learning how to shave, and having to resist the urge to claw my skin off down there at school the next day)

In a corporate environment I'm more than sure that shaving would be required(in the sense that it would be codified within a dress code). But for the most part it would probably be something an employer would assume a woman did anyway. Even for a retail job, if a woman showed up with obviously unshaven legs to an interview some employers would think she's being slovenly and not hire her. And I doubt that showing up to work in such a manner on a repeated basis wouldn't get her a warning. I could be wrong though.
 

Zaeseled

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May 17, 2011
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Drake Barrow said:
I don't have a lot of them, mostly because I'm careful with who I take on as friends. I have very long hair, favor fedoras and trench coats without apology, and very rarely get shit for those things.

However, I do get crap for not liking beer. Seriously, I can't stand it. Most beers taste like some combination of sweat socks and licking hot aluminum to me. If there's one thing a man is "supposed" to do, it's enjoy a cold beer. It also leaves me out of the beer discussions for the most part, as my contributions consist of, "Well that label doesn't taste quite like Cthulhu's pit sweat."

Also the whole "men are to initiate all romantic overtures" business constantly gives me grief. I wouldn't mind being the one pursued instead of doing the pursuing.
I feelses you, I can't stand beer either. The problem is that all my friends used to tell me that I just hadn't found the right kind of beer yet, so I got to try a lot of them. I do, however like vodka, have a high tolerance for alcohol and don't get hungover. They stopped doing that after a while but I still feel that they're excluding me from whatever "beers-r-us" they're in.
 

Trude

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Nov 26, 2012
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Male, heterosexual and white as lard, I grew up in a very balanced house with two very well educated and rounded parents. Being academics, they put school first but never at the expense of physical hobbies like sports, which I've taken part in since I was six. Mother being a politician though, you're not likely to be bullied based on your gender, ever.
Honestly the worst examples would have been gender profiling, which got me into trouble when a group of smart ass girls in elementary thought it'd be a riot to cover themselves in mud and claim some random boy pushed them down.
Ask me again in twenty years, maybe then I could contribute to this conversation.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Apr 16, 2010
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erttheking said:
Just a heads up: in response to that (admittedly dry) video, the insanely progressive nations of Nordic Europe completely defunded the Nordic Gender Institute, which had been responsible for the majority of "gender theory" informing public policy throughout the region. That goofy comedian wandering around and interviewing people completely altered one of the most "gender-sensitive" landscapes in the world, demonstrating once more that truth bombs don't need a degree - especially when so many modern degrees are completely suspect/outright bullshit.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
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hoo boy....

DementedSheep said:
Note that women is in quotation marks. I don't necessarily think stuff is inherent. Still I'm talking about things like being overly emotional and sensitive, screaming and crying and carrying on over stupid things
this ones a little hard to measure isn't it? feeling things aside from anger isn't actually a bad thing, or a weakness regardless of what were lead to belive

[quote/]being fearful of everything (every-time I see a women get silly over a bug or mouse I want to slap them)[/quote]
I'm sorry but as much as a REALLY wish I wasn't bothered by spiders I am, same with Lizards and I think Lizards are cute, but both things set off my fight/flight response, its involuntary

[quote/]or getting hurt, "talking" about their emotional problems without a purpose and going to councillors for nothing,[/quote]
talking about your emotional shit is actually really useful

[quote/]inability to handle physical pain,[/quote]
child-birth...nuff said

[quote/]fucking about with clothing and make-up even when the end result is crippling, obsessing over relationships and drama (I despise most media targeted at girls),[/quote]

...so? how'd you get from being into cloths and stuff to being....difficult? an interest in ones appearance isn';t inherently bad and you know I hate womens fashion as much as anyone but I get over it and not get a flase sense of superiority over people for their different priorities

[quote/]being passive and being content to leech off of a spouse. A lot of women are far too comfortable being incompetent and needing help or even worse handing a task completely over to someone with simple things that you really shouldn't need help with.[/quote]
ok this is not a good trait

[quote/]Even in a lot of women's fiction the girl ends up being completely outclassed by the guys and I end up wondering why we have them as the POV character. It seem a lot of women would rather attach themselves to a hero rather than be one. I see men lament being expected to be strong, stoic, capable and able to provide but everyone should want to be that. Having shame for negative traits and failures is a good thing within reason.[/quote]
I don't particularly like women centric media either...but anyway

while I've picked apart your points I get the vibe that overall you're very frustrated with the expectations and less than steller stereotypes that get placed on women

except I don't think directing your grievances on those who you perceive to "follow" the "rules" is the right way to look at it, it makes you no better than people who might chastise you for not being "feminine" enough