Prosecutors Request New Bond Conditions For Kyle Rittenhouse In Light Of Him Being Seen With The Proud Boys

[Kwak]

"haha, let's pretend ok is a white power symbol, so we can PRETEND we're racists.
What, no, of course that doesn't make us racist, even though actual for real racists will start using it too, it makes us extremely clever and funny because being offended by racism makes you an sjw soyboyfagcuck.
We're so amazing at trolling."

 

[Elijin]

Even if it was the ok symbol, (in which case see Kwak's post above) when known groups do it, it's definitely meant as the bad interpretation.

Personally I say let him hang out with them. Will make for great content when arguing his character in court.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Ah, so all white supremacist symbols aren't real becuase the okay one was made up. I get it.

Let's apply your logic to another situation. Jessie Smullet made up a crime. Therefore all black people make up crimes against them. I wonder if we have a debating fallacy for that..

Or, perhaps, you can find us some 4chan evidence this was made up (i dont expect you to do this. The article didn't bother to explain the symbol, leaving us wondering what they're talking about. Thats poor reporting. That's on them.) This could have been a Hail Hitler motion for all we know

No the Thumbs up symbols isn't white supremacist because Trump uses it. Other people have and do use it for the intended purpose too.

No 88 isn't a sign that some-one is a White supremacist because some people put their birth years in names etc so 88 could just be they were born in 1988 or they're a fan of a person who races in Car 88 in a sport and the driver had no choice in the number they were just assigned it.

No norse runes don't mean some-one is a white supremacist, some people just find norse shit cool.

No liking Pizza doesn't make some-one a pedophile. Just because the journalist who went by Dr Pizza for a while on twitter who had the Pizza emoji in his bio turned out to be a pedophile.

I'm saying we need to stop using symbols being used as evidence to confirm peoples biases.

If you want to bring up smullet, how many people looked at the symbol of the noose and his descriptions of people in red hats with white hoods or masks attacking him and went "Yeh those symbols add up must have been Trump supporters". That was confirmation bias. You know this happened other times.

Guys drive way sprayed with pro Trump racist stuff and his car torched......... Turned out to be he burned it for insurance money.

Church burned down and pro Trump graffiti found sprayed on it? Turned out a guy from the Church as covering up a crime he was committing.

Pro Trump supporter accused of pulling off Muslim girls headscarf? Turned out she made it up and there were no actual police reports made by her of it happening.

Synagogues getting anti-semantic bomb threats. Turns out it was one of the main reporters reporting on such stories doing it.

Oh and I did look it up BTW. Here's The Symbol he made


It's the OK sign

How the “OK” Symbol Became a Popular Trolling Gesture

www.adl.org

This is thanks to a 2017 hoax campaign started by members of the notorious website 4chan that has since taken on a life of its own.

The 4chan site is an anonymous discussion board with an outsized cultural impact on the internet. It has been responsible for everything from the “I can haz cheeseburger” cat meme to the concept of Rickrolling. There is little that 4channers like as much as a hoax, and in recent months, they have served up a number of fakeries with white supremacist themes to largely credulous online audiences.

The “OK” hand gesture originated as one of these hoaxes in February 2017 when an anonymous 4channer announced “Operation O-KKK,” telling other members that “we must flood Twitter and other social media websites…claiming that the OK hand sign is a symbol of white supremacy.” The user even provided a helpful graphic showing how the letters WP (for “white power”) could be traced within an “OK” gesture. The originator and others also suggested useful hashtags to help spread the hoax, such as #PowerHandPrivilege and #NotOkay. “Leftists have dug so deep down into their lunacy,” wrote the poster, “We must force [them] to dig more, until the rest of society ain’t going anywhere near that s***.”

Following the cues of the hoax’s originator, 4channers created fake e-mail and Twitter accounts and bombarded civil rights organizations, journalists, and others with messages furthering the “OK” hoax. It is possible that some of the hoaxers were racists or white supremacists themselves, as parts of 4chan are something of a haven for them, and the site itself has been a source of adherents of the alt right segment of the white supremacist movement.

The original launch of “Operation O-KKK” sputtered after a few days and it seemed that the hoax had run its course without spreading too far, but it picked up again in late April and this time was far more successful in spreading across social media—and beyond.

It is important to realize that the “OK” gesture is a nearly universal hand gesture and most usage of it is completely innocuous. Even when used as described here, the fact that white supremacists, the alt lite and many Trump supporters all use the symbol means that one cannot assume that anyone who poses with such a gesture is intending or exhibiting an association with white supremacy. Only if the gesture occurs in context with other clear indicators of white supremacy can one draw that conclusion.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

"haha, let's pretend ok is a white power symbol, so we can PRETEND we're racists.
What, no, of course that doesn't make us racist, even though actual for real racists will start using it too, it makes us extremely clever and funny because being offended by racism makes you an sjw soyboyfagcuck.
We're so amazing at trolling."

People jumping at god damn shadows shows how things have been going too far.

You know like the time a reporter claimed an ICE agent had Neo-nazi tattoos and the guy turned out to have regimental tattoos from his Army regiment and to be a disabled veteran working at ICE because it gave him a job after his legs were blown off.

Even if it was the ok symbol, (in which case see Kwak's post above) when known groups do it, it's definitely meant as the bad interpretation.

Personally I say let him hang out with them. Will make for great content when arguing his character in court.

Or to prove people will jump at anything now to try and confirm their bias.

I mean come on drinking fucking Milk was being framed and a White Supremacist action at one point so much so even PETA started jumping on the train to push that bullshit.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

No the Thumbs up symbols isn't white supremacist because Trump uses it. Other people have and do use it for the intended purpose too.

No 88 isn't a sign that some-one is a White supremacist because some people put their birth years in names etc so 88 could just be they were born in 1988 or they're a fan of a person who races in Car 88 in a sport and the driver had no choice in the number they were just assigned it.

No norse runes don't mean some-one is a white supremacist, some people just find norse shit cool.

No liking Pizza doesn't make some-one a pedophile. Just because the journalist who went by Dr Pizza for a while on twitter who had the Pizza emoji in his bio turned out to be a pedophile.

I'm saying we need to stop using symbols being used as evidence to confirm peoples biases.

And a skin-head with a swastika tattoo on his forehead is totally actually just a Buddhist monk seeking inner peace and enlightenment right?

It doesn't really matter what the origin of the "ok symbol is a white supremacist sign" came from. Even if it started wotj just 4chan trolling, if the symbol got adopted by actual white supremacists and is actively being used by them then it's a white supremacist symbol when used by them, regardless of the origin.

The proud boys are white supremacists and when someone is hanging out with them and throwing up the "ok" sign he's doing it knowing exactly what it means to that group.

 

[Kwak]

He is a hero of racists for shooting people at a BLM protest - to pretend they aren't referencing that using a 'pretend' racist symbol is abusive gaslighting. No-one buys it, just stop it.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And a skin-head with a swastika tattoo on his forehead is totally actually just a Buddhist monk seeking inner peace and enlightenment right?

It doesn't really matter what the origin of the "ok symbol is a white supremacist sign" came from. Even if it started wotj just 4chan trolling, if the symbol got adopted by actual white supremacists and is actively being used by them then it's a white supremacist symbol when used by them, regardless of the origin.

The proud boys are white supremacists and when someone is hanging out with them and throwing up the "ok" sign he's doing it knowing exactly what it means to that group.

Because the sign means OK. It's always meant OK. It's a sign so widely used tons of politicians use it even now.

Does the skin-head with a swastika tattoo on his forehead using a phone make phones racist? How about just that brand of phone?

What if he says thank you to a person? Does that make Thank you racist now too?

The Symbol was already widely in use. You know what's funny. People jump at others for using it and try to then ruin their lives for the OK hand sign taking it as some grand confirmation they're bad. You know what then happens? You happily drive the into the arms of groups desperate to swell their membership and get more people in their ideology thus you create more White Supremacists but no-one seems to realise that because people either don't care or don't think that maybe they could be wrong and the person isn't the monster they've made them out to be in their mind.

Does Kyle know they're White Supremacists or did they happen to try and find Kyle in said bar?

Would you automatically be able to recognise all the Proud boy members in public?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

He is a hero of racists for shooting people at a BLM protest

All of whom were white and one of them was a convicted sex offender for offenses involving minors. All of whom are on video either trying to attack him first or seemingly trying to draw their own weapon after a false surrender to try and shoot him.

- to pretend they aren't referencing that using a 'pretend' racist symbol is abusive gaslighting. No-one buys it, just stop it.

Because it's NOT a sign the ADL even points that out. It wasn't a sign until 4chan pushed it as a joke.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[Dwarvenhobble]

And the Swastika was once just a sun symbol in Hinduism. The Hammer and Sickle were just a pair of common tools. A clenched fist was just a clenched fist. But their adoption and usage by political groups has given them more meaning then they once had. When you see a crossed hammer and sickle you think of communism. When you see a black swastika on a white background you think of nazis and when you see a clenched fist you think of the black power movement. You do this because the people who adopted these symbols worked hard to infuse them with meaning and to make people associate the symbol with their ideology.

That makes them totally different from this:

Well you asked for it, I'm pulling Robert Langdon's speech on the importance of context of symbols.

Because this is just a guy (a piece of shit guy, but still just a guy) using a phone. Now if he and all his neo-nazi friends started using Nokia phones, posing with Nokias in front of Pepe flags, Nokias atop copies of Mein Kampf and hummed the standard Nokia ringtone as some sort of in-joke, that would obviously be different. Because then they'd be trying to make Nokia more then just a phone, to make Nokia ownership a symbol of White Supremacy ideology.

So you're willing to just let them take anything they want?

I mean, you obviously understand internet culture so I can only assume you're making this argument in bad faith. Because anyone who's been even remotely Chan adjacent since the autumn of 2014 knows that the troll culture of the Chans has been providing the alt-right with all their memes, including adopting specific emojis (milk glass and ok sign chief among them) as in-jokes and signs that you share alt-right values. That's why Proud Boys, Neo-Nazis and all the other alt-righters pose while making the ok sign. A sign that before it surfaced in 2016 as an alt-right dog whistle was pretty much dead as far as hand signals go.

Also I literally posted Obama making the OK hand sign, I could post AOC and the Pope too if you'd like. It was far from dead. Also because neo-Nazis try to appropriate whatever they can it doesn't mean that's what it was designed for. I mean come on the there's a lot of Nazi Mickey Mouse stuff online so is Disney now the preferred entertainment of Nazis? They just want to try and make stuff associated with them so idiots will attack others and make it so the only people who will be seen as accepting them with the the Nazis now.

 

[Elijin]

Your broad strokes, making everyone look bad, argument loses weight when the topic is known white supremacists are using the symbol.

Does this mean all uses of the okay symbol have that implication? No.

The group alleged to use it as a symbol, using it, is intentional.

Also the comments about "Did Kyle even know who they were?"....If you're out on bail for murder charges, and someone wants to shake your hand and grab a picture based on that....probably don't do that, yeah?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Your broad strokes, making everyone look bad, argument loses weight when the topic is known white supremacists are using the symbol.

Does this mean all uses of the okay symbol have that implication? No.

The group alleged to use it as a symbol, using it, is intentional.

Also the comments about "Did Kyle even know who they were?"....If you're out on bail for murder charges, and someone wants to shake your hand and grab a picture based on that....probably don't do that, yeah?

The allegations started from 4chan because it's such a commonly used symbol.

Are people just that eager to give White supremacists power to take control of whatever symbol they want?

As for pictures etc. Kyle is fairly well known and likely it's not just white supremacists who actually think maybe he did good.

 

[Gordon_4]

Isn’t the obvious answer to this is that someone released on bail should not be hanging around with known or suspected criminals or those with ties to same?

 

[Elijin]

The allegations started from 4chan because it's such a commonly used symbol.

Are people just that eager to give White supremacists power to take control of whatever symbol they want?

As for pictures etc. Kyle is fairly well known and likely it's not just white supremacists who actually think maybe he did good.

Except I directly said that using this symbol doesn't make you one of them. However if you are one of them, and you use the symbol, that is an intentional message.

I also didn't mention demographics about the photo/handshake bit. If you're on bail for murder and some random wants to shake your hand and get a picture because of that, probably just politely decline, eh?

 

[Thaluikhain]

when you see a clenched fist you think of the black power movement

A quibble, but is that view that widespread? Because I thought of feminism and the Boxer Rebellion (who might not actually have used the fist symbol) first, and there's plenty of others, though it seems a bit more modern than I'd expected.

Not to say that groups haven't become associated with certain signs and vice versa, just that I'd not have thought that was one of them.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[laggyteabag]

So the white guy who decided it was a good idea to go out of his way, and bring a gun to a BLM protest, only to end up shooting a few guys in "self defence", is now hanging with alt-right hate groups, and throwing up white power signs?

Thats a bold move.

It'll be interesting to see how his defence tries to argue his innocence, now.

 

[Baffle]

It'll be interesting to see how his defence tries to argue his innocence, now.

Laughably, judging by what I've read here.

 

[Agema]

Because the sign means OK. It's always meant OK. It's a sign so widely used tons of politicians use it even now.

The trick here is to have a symbol with plausible deniability.

If we think of the Freemasons, they have a secret handshake. But those who want to covertly signify affiliation can also hide it in plain sight, with an otherwise innocuous gesture that others in the know will recognise. Although the okay symbol is common, people tend not to use it except where contextually relevant. Like when waiting staff check back and ask you whether your meal is okay and your mouth's full, so you use a hand gesture, or as added emphasis whilst stating everything's fine.

Using it for the sort of photo op Rittenhouse was in is odd. Why signify "okay" here? There's no normal tradition of doing this sort of thing - a thumbs up might be standard.

And the answer is that irrespective of origins on 4chan or whatever, it has become what it is and every far righter will see that and know what it means. Of course, so can other people see too, but the far right and their useful idiot allies can scurry round carrying out interference on the back of the plausible deniability. That it is partly about screwing with people as well as signifying allegiance is neither here nor there.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yep...

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