Prosecutors Request New Bond Conditions For Kyle Rittenhouse In Light Of Him Being Seen With The Proud Boys

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Houseman

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I didn't make the claim, the police did.
And yet nobody has any hard proof of that, not even the person's family, who, by the way, wants everyone to stop politicizing his death.
 

Trunkage

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And yet nobody has any hard proof of that, not even the person's family, who, by the way, wants everyone to stop politicizing his death.
Man, your understanding of 'hard proof' is really... just not connected to reality
 
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Houseman

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Man, your understanding of 'hard proof' is really... just not connected to reality
I've read the articles. The only evidence that the officer who died was the officer who was hit by the extinguisher is unnamed LEO sources.
Not his family.
Not himself.
Not official named sources.

So no, not hard proof.

Your attempt at gaslighting has failed.
 

Kwak

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"The prosecution’s statement of facts in the case described the fire extinguisher hitting three officers in the head, including one who wasn’t wearing a helmet. Officials said the extinguisher Mr. Sanford allegedly threw isn’t the one that killed Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who was also struck in the head with a fire extinguisher during the unrest and died from his wounds, officials said."

It's probably this video...
 
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Houseman

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So still no hard proof, nothing has changed. The officer didn't report the alleged wounds to the family, only pepper spray, and still died of a blood clot. There is no evidence to suggest trauma was the cause of his death
 

Kwak

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So still no hard proof, nothing has changed. The officer didn't report the alleged wounds to the family, only pepper spray, and still died of a blood clot. There is no evidence to suggest trauma was the cause of his death
Apart from what the police said.


"At approximately 9:30 p.m. this evening (January 7, 2021), United States Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick passed away due to injuries sustained while on-duty.

Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. The death of Officer Sicknick will be investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department’s Homicide Branch, the USCP, and our federal partners. "
 

Houseman

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The death of Officer Sicknick will be investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department’s Homicide Branch, the USCP, and our federal partners. "
And it was investigated.
And they said it was a blood clot.

Before he died he texted his family and said he was in good health, and that he had only been pepper sprayed. Could he have been lying so that his family wouldn't worry? Perhaps. Could he have been telling the truth? Also perhaps.
 

Kwak

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And it was investigated.
And they said it was a blood clot.
They knew about the clot when he was put on the ventilator before his death. That was not the result of the investigation, which one assumes is still ongoing.
 

Agema

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Well I think you need to go back and notice Kwak was referencing the Christ Church shooter and his actions to support his argument.
Given the contexts of posts #62 and #63 that your comment was directly following on from, that claim is obviously dishonest.

Also how does fetishizing them as some kind of dangerous fringe group warranting special coverage of basically anything they do help stop them again?

It's how ISIS was able to recruit by spinning press against them to show themselves as some dangerous rebels and how some I.S. brides were pulled into it too.
White supremacist recruitment guides online specifically recommend concealing their real affiliations during intitial contact because awareness of such beliefs makes people wary. Instead using milder conservative talking points to form a connection, generate trust and sympathy, before attempting to draw them into the real stuff.

As a result, public alertness to these shitbags roaming society is important. And that's a place to consider your argument that the best way to stop the activities of white supremacists is that the general public should not be told about them or able to recognise them. You're arguing we should help them.
 

Agema

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The attack could cause elevated stress and heart rate, which could make a blood clot more likely to kill, and therefore, so would exercise, but I don't think you can punch a blood clot into someone, though I'll defer to the medical experts on that one.
What do you think happens when you hit someone?

This causes damage. Damage ruptures blood vessels: a bruise, for instance, is caused by blood leaking out of blood vessels into the surrounding tissue. This causes clotting processes to go into effect to create a "haemostatic plug" - to temporarily fill the rupture in the blood vessel and prevent further blood loss until full repair can occur. In other words, you pretty much cannot avoid causing blood clots when you punch someone. Punch them in the head, and it's likely to cause damage to blood vessels in the brain itself.

The thing is that the blood clots are not usually fatal, because they are very small, or in peripheral tissues and do not get to somewhere really important like the brain. But sometimes they do, and sometimes they are sufficiently serious they kill someone.

So if the result of a deliberate assault, this is murder.
 

Houseman

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What do you think happens when you hit someone?

This causes damage. Damage ruptures blood vessels: a bruise, for instance, is caused by blood leaking out of blood vessels into the surrounding tissue. This causes clotting processes to go into effect to create a "haemostatic plug" - to temporarily fill the rupture in the blood vessel and prevent further blood loss until full repair can occur. In other words, you pretty much cannot avoid causing blood clots when you punch someone. Punch them in the head, and it's likely to cause damage to blood vessels in the brain itself.

The thing is that the blood clots are not usually fatal, because they are very small, or in peripheral tissues and do not get to somewhere really important like the brain. But sometimes they do, and sometimes they are sufficiently serious they kill someone.

So if the result of a deliberate assault, this is murder.
Sure, it could be.
 

Schadrach

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It doesn't really matter what the origin of the "ok symbol is a white supremacist sign" came from. Even if it started wotj just 4chan trolling, if the symbol got adopted by actual white supremacists and is actively being used by them then it's a white supremacist symbol when used by them, regardless of the origin.
Unfortunately their follow up attempt to make dabbing a white supremacist symbol didn't stick as well. Or the chart of American Sign Language with every letter being a hate symbol.

I've joked in the past that the half dozen or so white supremacists with the biggest social media influence should have an online meeting biweekly in which they decide on an emoji, a hand sign and an innocuous phrase they are going to just use excessively for the following 3 weeks (yes, the overlap is intentional). Over a year or two we'd have so many "hate symbols" that it would become difficult to communicate without showing your support for white supremacy.

only to end up shooting a few guys in "self defence",
Realistically, he'll almost definitely get away with a self defense argument for the first shooting, maybe one of the others, but not the rest.

After all, just look at the immediate events leading up to that first shot - he tried to put out a fire, was approached and confronted by a protester, said protester got increasingly angry and turned violent, he tried to flee, two shots were fired by some other party or parties, the guy he was fleeing from caught him and tried to take his gun. Then he shot. I don't think arguing that in the moment he (possibly rightly) believed he was being shot at and the person grabbing him and trying to take his gun represented a direct threat to his life will be a hard defense to make. The other case where someone tried to take his gun and he shot I also think he might be able to manage a self defense argument against, though it's not quite as strong. The other time he shot is the one I think he won't be able to get out of.

Yeah, that's what the christchurch mass-murderer was signalling.
That's the one that started his spree with "Subscribe to PweDiePie" thus verifying that PewDiePie supports spree killing Muslims and claims he was radicalized by Candace Owens (but that "the extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes"), that Spyro the Dragon 3 taught him ethno-nationalism, that Fortnite trained him to be a killer, and who decided to "contact the reborn Knights Templar for a blessing in support of the attack", right?

Even then, considering that it's oriented wrong for the OK sign and is below his waist, isn't that closer to the "Circle Game"? Specifically the photobombing an otherwise serious image version of it?

Ahh, so we're going into full "she died because her heart stopped beating, the car hitting her had nothing to do with it" territory then?
Seen people pull that with the guy who was burned to death in a pawnshop two days in during the Minneapolis George Floyd protests, with things like "just because they found his body in the remains of the building, he died from smoke inhalation and burns, and there's video of a protester pouring what appears to be accelerant in the building and watching it burn" somehow not suggesting he had anything to do with it.
 

Trunkage

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I've read the articles. The only evidence that the officer who died was the officer who was hit by the extinguisher is unnamed LEO sources.
Not his family.
Not himself.
Not official named sources.

So no, not hard proof.

Your attempt at gaslighting has failed.
I was talking about your claim of ‘died by paperwork’