Prostitution: immoral or in demand

[GeorgW]

I don't understand the kind of people that would buy the services of a prostitute. They just aren't attractive to me, as a concept. It would be nice to deal with someone that's a professional, and good at it, so I guess I can understand it. I definitely understand the prostitutes. Everybody thinks too highly of sex and it earns good money. Hell, I'd be a prostitute if I could choose my clients (and actually get any). Tolerance zones sounds like the best legal option.
To sum up, the world's oldest profession, nothing wrong with it but not really for me.

 

[Verlander]

Sex slavery=bad

Sex working=fine, potentially liberating

Unfortunately, it's hard to legislate, so it's generally banned on grounds of safety etc. Which doesn't necessarily work

actually it would be very easy to legislative, but its an unwillingness, no political party wants to touch the subject, atleast not possibility of legitimising it, its why so many tolerance and management zones proposals are turned down

To an extent maybe, but the studies in Amsterdam ahve proven that sexual slavery and pimping don't stop, regardless of the law. In fact, in certain case, it was made worse, as pimps tried to compete with the legalised brothels

oh yes i compleatly agree, what i meant with legislation is the like of tolerance and management zones, they are a very effective method at the moment, if not currently implemented badly, but i wasn't talking about legislation in regards to sex slavery, i think the law at the moment covers that quite well, i was just talking common prostitues

Yeah, I agree, and would back it wholeheartedly

see now yours is an attitude i like, but according to opinion poles and social studies, that attitude is in the minority, that's why they remain criminalised, but from the 60 something posts here there's only been one against it, so that makes me question these studies (my entie reason for starting this thread)

I think a lot of people who don't know, nor think about things like this, automatically take on a conservative attitude towards it, which is probably a natural reflex action. Mix in the fact that women are often in the center of an emotional tug of war on the subject, with intelligent and outspoken feminists on both sides of the argument. Men generally don't want to be seen condoning something that would upset or arouse suspicions of their spouse. Although when I first meet someone, I generally talk to them about these sort of political and ethical issues immediately (no sense in wasting time on someone you are incompatible with), a lot of men don't, and so are alienated by the subject, deeming it to be in the realm of "womens issues".

Add to that a very conservative ancestry, and currently a conservative political climate in the west, and you don't have the sort of open mindedness that makes social change. Another huge factor in the UK at the moment (not sure what country you hail from) is an increasing educational-social divide, which sees the majority of people, who aren't educated above school level, politically swinging to the right, and becoming mistrustful of those who are in, or from further education. There is a common feeling that people who have entered higher education, or even in some cases, finished high school, are in some way brainwashed, and unintelligent, and those who get their news and education from the tabloid media and youtube videos, are somehow more enlightened than the rest. It's utter bullshit obviously, but those guys make up a vast majority of the population, and only respond negatively to education or information that runs contrary to their beliefs, whether they are strongly held beliefs or not.

Wow, sorry for the wall of text there

 

[Joepow]

If prostitution was legal, even more women who couldn't make ends meet would turn to prostitution, and it wouldn't really be by choice, but because they would need the money they would be far more likely to do it if it was legal.

So it's better for them to be broke?

 

[Bad Jim]

A few points to note:

1) A pimp is just a middleman. The pimp finds business in return for a share of the money. It doesn't mean they have forced the girl to do anything.

2) In the UK, and probably most other countries, there are political lobby groups and the like that spew forth propaganda against prostitution. One of their favourite claims is that a large proportion of the girls are forced into it. They then recommend a ban on all prostitution, rather than, say, telling the police to get their arses in gear and start arresting people on existing slavery laws.

Realistic estimates are generally less than 1%, for two reasons. First, the police do take it seriously and make numerous raids even though they don't find many sex slaves. Secondly, while a lot of men will pay for sex, very few like the idea of girls being forced to do it and the police are likely to get tip offs, unless the operation caters exclusively to psychos.

3) Most regulation isn't such a great idea. Licenses do little more than allow the official issuing the licenses to trade them for sex, or allow an oligopoly of licensed brothels to take a large, unearned share of the cash. Regular testing has some merit, although prostitutes use condoms almost universally, so they are a much smaller health risk than women who have lots of casual sex. Most regulation tends to be aimed at making it harder to pay for sex, creating an incentive for illegal prostitution.

 

[templargunman]

The system we have now in the U.S. is the best. Escort services allow men to take attractive women on dates, and women have the choice to sleep with the men, but they can't be forced.

I don't think that's how it works. That might be what escort services write on their websites, but in reality it's just like every other escort service in the world: Men don't pay just for spending time with a girl, they pay for sex. The women either takes the money and fucks the customer or turns on her heels and goes home if she doesn't want to. (unless there is a pimp who beats her for not making money.)

As far is I understand it, escort services and private escorts are not legal in the US.

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B312B08E_000/escort_service
Oh hey, it's a list of escort services in all 50 states and the district of Columbia. You are wrong about how they work too. An escort service is only for the date, but that of course is due to U.S. law, the women who escort men don't legally have to fuck them (although they normally do), and if they don't fuck them, they still get payed, otherwise the women are prostituting themselves. Otherwise the service is illegal.

So it's better for them to be broke?

If they want the money, they should just become a stripper, that is legal and it doesn't involve being forced to have sex.

 

[SanguineSymphony]

The system we have now in the U.S. is the best. Escort services allow men to take attractive women on dates, and women have the choice to sleep with the men, but they can't be forced.

I don't think that's how it works. That might be what escort services write on their websites, but in reality it's just like every other escort service in the world: Men don't pay just for spending time with a girl, they pay for sex. The women either takes the money and fucks the customer or turns on her heels and goes home if she doesn't want to. (unless there is a pimp who beats her for not making money.)

As far is I understand it, escort services and private escorts are not legal in the US.

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B312B08E_000/escort_service
Oh hey, it's a list of escort services in all 50 states and the district of Columbia. You are wrong about how they work too. An escort service is only for the date, but that of course is due to U.S. law, the women who escort men don't legally have to fuck them (although they normally do), and if they don't fuck them, they still get payed, otherwise the women are prostituting themselves. Otherwise the service is illegal.

Most escorts and erotic services in general have sites where you can review the Escort... How long do you think they'd stay in business/employed if they didn't put out?

 

[Joepow]

So it's better for them to be broke?

If they want the money, they should just become a stripper, that is legal and it doesn't involve being forced to have sex.

We are not talking about forced prostitution.
And legalizing prostitution wouldn't prevent anyone from stripping if they prefer that (and if there is enough demand, of course).

 

[templargunman]

The system we have now in the U.S. is the best. Escort services allow men to take attractive women on dates, and women have the choice to sleep with the men, but they can't be forced.

I don't think that's how it works. That might be what escort services write on their websites, but in reality it's just like every other escort service in the world: Men don't pay just for spending time with a girl, they pay for sex. The women either takes the money and fucks the customer or turns on her heels and goes home if she doesn't want to. (unless there is a pimp who beats her for not making money.)

As far is I understand it, escort services and private escorts are not legal in the US.

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B312B08E_000/escort_service
Oh hey, it's a list of escort services in all 50 states and the district of Columbia. You are wrong about how they work too. An escort service is only for the date, but that of course is due to U.S. law, the women who escort men don't legally have to fuck them (although they normally do), and if they don't fuck them, they still get payed, otherwise the women are prostituting themselves. Otherwise the service is illegal.

Most escorts and erotic services in general have sites where you can review the Escort... How long do you think they'd stay in business/employed if they didn't put out?

I'm not saying they don't normally put out, but by law they don't have to, lets say some dude says that he wants her to do some disgusting sex act, she can say no and leave, and she has the legal right to do so, and the company can't fire her for that. The review system is there so that people who get bad reviews for not putting out can eventually be fired, but I was originally saying that the system we have now works better than actual prostitution.

So it's better for them to be broke?

If they want the money, they should just become a stripper, that is legal and it doesn't involve being forced to have sex.

We are not talking about forced prostitution.
And legalizing prostitution wouldn't prevent anyone from stripping if they prefer that (and if there is enough demand, of course).

I know you're not talking about forced prostitution, but I'm saying that if prostitution was legal, more women would feel that they had to do it to make ends meet. Also, if prostitution was legalized, how many strip clubs do you think wouldn't offer prostitution as well. If you change the system, there are always new problems to come across. I don't really understand what the obsession with prostitution is, it's not that hard to get laid, and if you really need to pay someone to sleep with you, just go to Nevada, don't try to change the entire system.

 

[ramboondiea]

Sex slavery=bad

Sex working=fine, potentially liberating

Unfortunately, it's hard to legislate, so it's generally banned on grounds of safety etc. Which doesn't necessarily work

actually it would be very easy to legislative, but its an unwillingness, no political party wants to touch the subject, atleast not possibility of legitimising it, its why so many tolerance and management zones proposals are turned down

To an extent maybe, but the studies in Amsterdam ahve proven that sexual slavery and pimping don't stop, regardless of the law. In fact, in certain case, it was made worse, as pimps tried to compete with the legalised brothels

oh yes i compleatly agree, what i meant with legislation is the like of tolerance and management zones, they are a very effective method at the moment, if not currently implemented badly, but i wasn't talking about legislation in regards to sex slavery, i think the law at the moment covers that quite well, i was just talking common prostitues

Yeah, I agree, and would back it wholeheartedly

see now yours is an attitude i like, but according to opinion poles and social studies, that attitude is in the minority, that's why they remain criminalised, but from the 60 something posts here there's only been one against it, so that makes me question these studies (my entie reason for starting this thread)

I think a lot of people who don't know, nor think about things like this, automatically take on a conservative attitude towards it, which is probably a natural reflex action. Mix in the fact that women are often in the center of an emotional tug of war on the subject, with intelligent and outspoken feminists on both sides of the argument. Men generally don't want to be seen condoning something that would upset or arouse suspicions of their spouse. Although when I first meet someone, I generally talk to them about these sort of political and ethical issues immediately (no sense in wasting time on someone you are incompatible with), a lot of men don't, and so are alienated by the subject, deeming it to be in the realm of "womens issues".

Add to that a very conservative ancestry, and currently a conservative political climate in the west, and you don't have the sort of open mindedness that makes social change. Another huge factor in the UK at the moment (not sure what country you hail from) is an increasing educational-social divide, which sees the majority of people, who aren't educated above school level, politically swinging to the right, and becoming mistrustful of those who are in, or from further education. There is a common feeling that people who have entered higher education, or even in some cases, finished high school, are in some way brainwashed, and unintelligent, and those who get their news and education from the tabloid media and youtube videos, are somehow more enlightened than the rest. It's utter bullshit obviously, but those guys make up a vast majority of the population, and only respond negatively to education or information that runs contrary to their beliefs, whether they are strongly held beliefs or not.

Wow, sorry for the wall of text there

well yeah i pretty much agree with you on that, and actually over the last 10-15 years (im from the UK btw) there has been a far more 'liberal' attitude, with great improvement in the area of prostitution, the likes of the ugly mug scheme comes to mind first, with plenty of lobbyist becoming for more widely active, plus looking at soem of the more passive legislation that seems to be improving conditions for prostitutions (but still causing problems aswel) but i think the biggest issue is public morality, no political party wants to touch prostitution, never have really and its easy to imagine why, can you picture what would happen if (i know this would never happen) Cameron stated tomorrow that he was going to create sanctioned brothels, every other party would rip them to pieces using the public outrage.

and your compleatly right on the issue of education, just after starting this thread iv seen some real ignorance of what the law is, reasons behind prostitution, methods and theories, and all of the evidence in the world wouldnt hold up to to anybody who thinks prostitutes are the scum of the earth

 

[Sim4500]

The system we have now in the U.S. is the best. Escort services allow men to take attractive women on dates, and women have the choice to sleep with the men, but they can't be forced.

I don't think that's how it works. That might be what escort services write on their websites, but in reality it's just like every other escort service in the world: Men don't pay just for spending time with a girl, they pay for sex. The women either takes the money and fucks the customer or turns on her heels and goes home if she doesn't want to. (unless there is a pimp who beats her for not making money.)

As far is I understand it, escort services and private escorts are not legal in the US.

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B312B08E_000/escort_service
Oh hey, it's a list of escort services in all 50 states and the district of Columbia. You are wrong about how they work too. An escort service is only for the date, but that of course is due to U.S. law, the women who escort men don't legally have to fuck them (although they normally do), and if they don't fuck them, they still get payed, otherwise the women are prostituting themselves. Otherwise the service is illegal.

Most escorts and erotic services in general have sites where you can review the Escort... How long do you think they'd stay in business/employed if they didn't put out?

I'm not saying they don't normally put out, but by law they don't have to, lets say some dude says that he wants her to do some disgusting sex act, she can say no and leave, and she has the legal right to do so, and the company can't fire her for that. The review system is there so that people who get bad reviews for not putting out can eventually be fired, but I was originally saying that the system we have now works better than actual prostitution.

A actual prostitute still has the right to say "no" just as much as the "girl-who-gets-money-for-spending-time-with-the-customer". Especially if the customer wants to do anything the girl didn't agree on.

The kind of escort services you are talking about are still illegal. They write on their website that you only pay for company and not for sex, but if you call them up, u usually discuss what kind of "services" the girl in question offers and how much they cost. That makes it illegal.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

I always argued that they should legalize prostitution in the military. Prostitution may be "immoral," but so is killing people. There have been a bunch of rape coverups coming out in the news about the US military and it is sickening. I'm not saying if they had hookers that those rapes wouldn't have happened, but right now there doesn't exist any form of sexual contact for a bunch of early 20s dudes with nothing to do with their free time except jerk off and play video games. The whole Abu Ghraib abuse scandal just screamed "I'm horny and bored. Take a picture next to that guy's dick, honey." I mean, look at these numbers I just googled.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004600.html

14.6% of all people in the military are women. Less than 1.5 females to men and most of them probably have husbands, families, or are lesbians. Meanwhile, military girlfriends sometimes break up with their guy when he's overseas. That leaves them to contract STDs at whatever scummy whorehouses they happen to be at. There are worse ideas than government run brothels (like say for example, going to foreign countries and killing people).

 

[Joepow]

I know you're not talking about forced prostitution, but I'm saying that if prostitution was legal, more women would feel that they had to do it to make ends meet. Also, if prostitution was legalized, how many strip clubs do you think wouldn't offer prostitution as well. If you change the system, there are always new problems to come across. I don't really understand what the obsession with prostitution is, it's not that hard to get laid, and if you really need to pay someone to sleep with you, just go to Nevada, don't try to change the entire system.

Again, I don't see the problem. You are just adding an option.If someone prefers not to be able to suppert himself, that's still an option.

 

[Choppaduel]

snip

This is also how I see it. Its better to make it legal and regulate it than it is to hand it over to the unscrupulous.

That being said, I can see why some may be afraid of having prostitution legal.
Prostitution doesn't generate resources. The idea is that its a drain on the productivity of a nation. Which means less money for the corporations that rule world.

 

[templargunman]

The system we have now in the U.S. is the best. Escort services allow men to take attractive women on dates, and women have the choice to sleep with the men, but they can't be forced.

I don't think that's how it works. That might be what escort services write on their websites, but in reality it's just like every other escort service in the world: Men don't pay just for spending time with a girl, they pay for sex. The women either takes the money and fucks the customer or turns on her heels and goes home if she doesn't want to. (unless there is a pimp who beats her for not making money.)

As far is I understand it, escort services and private escorts are not legal in the US.

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B312B08E_000/escort_service
Oh hey, it's a list of escort services in all 50 states and the district of Columbia. You are wrong about how they work too. An escort service is only for the date, but that of course is due to U.S. law, the women who escort men don't legally have to fuck them (although they normally do), and if they don't fuck them, they still get payed, otherwise the women are prostituting themselves. Otherwise the service is illegal.

Most escorts and erotic services in general have sites where you can review the Escort... How long do you think they'd stay in business/employed if they didn't put out?

I'm not saying they don't normally put out, but by law they don't have to, lets say some dude says that he wants her to do some disgusting sex act, she can say no and leave, and she has the legal right to do so, and the company can't fire her for that. The review system is there so that people who get bad reviews for not putting out can eventually be fired, but I was originally saying that the system we have now works better than actual prostitution.

A actual prostitute still has the right to say "no" just as much as the "girl-who-gets-money-for-spending-time-with-the-customer". Especially if the customer wants to do anything the girl didn't agree on.

The kind of escort services you are talking about are still illegal. They write on their website that you only pay for company and not for sex, but if you call them up, u usually discuss what kind of "services" the girl in question offers and how much they cost. That makes it illegal.

Did you know you can own a gun, but if you shoot someone with it, it's illegal? Just because someone takes a legal service and breaks the law with it, doesn't make the service illegal, you can have sex with your escort completely legally, it just can't be included in the bill.

I know you're not talking about forced prostitution, but I'm saying that if prostitution was legal, more women would feel that they had to do it to make ends meet. Also, if prostitution was legalized, how many strip clubs do you think wouldn't offer prostitution as well. If you change the system, there are always new problems to come across. I don't really understand what the obsession with prostitution is, it's not that hard to get laid, and if you really need to pay someone to sleep with you, just go to Nevada, don't try to change the entire system.

Again, I don't see the problem. You are just adding an option.If someone prefers not to be able to suppert himself, that's still an option.

I'm going to assume suppert means support. Yes, people have the choice not to support themselves, your right, they could just stop eating or living in a house, that's totally possible, but I think people in poverty don't think "ah, if I don't get a job for another month I can just move into a homeless shelter" I don't really understand what you're arguing at all. You're pretty much just saying now that if the poor don't want to be prostitutes for my amusement, fuck 'em and leave them to die.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Immoral most defiantly. Demand for it just screams bigger government

 

[x EvilErmine x]

There are really two questions here because there are two types of prostitute in general. The first being women and men who do it because they want to and the second being the men and women who do it because they are forced to. Prostitution is the said to be one of the oldest professions, this is undoubtedly true as there records of prostitution going on since year dot. It's something that will never leave us for as long as we are a sexual species, the sex drive is simply too strong for this to go away so i would say no prostitution is not immoral any more than going to a stylist to get your hair cut, its just another service industry.

The immoral aspect of prostitution comes from the second form where people are forced into it, this aspect of prostitution stems form the illegality and taboo/stigma surrounding the practice. This incidentally is the aspect of prostitution that is most in the public consciousness when one talks about prostitution.

The ideal solution would be to adopt the policy of places like Amsterdam where the industry is recognized and can therefore be regulated. Sex workers have rights and there are severe penalties for people that brake the rules. Granted if this did happen it would not completely eliminate illegal prostitution but it would greatly help the police as they would then be able to assist the people who are being taken advantage without having to waste resources dealing with people who have really not done anything wrong and actually are just doing something that they want to do.

TLR
No it's not immoral always.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Keeping it illegal actually prevents people from gaining access to basic human rights. If a prostitute gets raped, they can't go to the police for fear of being arrested for being a prostitute. They also can't get medical assistance, again, for fear of being arrested.Therefore, legalizing prostitution would decrease crime rates, improve lives (for employees, clients and general well being for people) and allow it to be regulated like other businesses. A lot of pros but few cons...

 

[Joepow]

I'm going to assume suppert means support. Yes, people have the choice not to support themselves, your right, they could just stop eating or living in a house, that's totally possible, but I think people in poverty don't think "ah, if I don't get a job for another month I can just move into a homeless shelter" I don't really understand what you're arguing at all. You're pretty much just saying now that if the poor don't want to be prostitutes for my amusement, fuck 'em and leave them to die.

I'm saying that we should give them the opportunity to make money by legalizing prostitution. You are the one who wants to deny them that option.

 

[duckfi8]

prostitution is always in high demand

 

[Dexiro]

There's nothing immoral about prostitution, but for the sake of safety I think it should be regulated with brothels and whatever.

I saw a program about one of the brothels in Texas and it looked as though it worked perfectly fine. Prostitutes were in a safe regulated environment rather than out on the streets, the brothels are kept in suitable locations away from children and everyone else's life carried on as normal.