Is there a quantum physicist in the house? Because I've got some issues with the ending to Bioshock Infinite. Needless to say, the following box contains spoilers to the ending. Be warned: this box contains The Great Wall of Text, as any ending as mind-crushing as this one practically demands when trying to discuss the details of it.
Whew! Don't think I've spewed out an essay like that for any game that wasn't made by Bioware. Anyways I'm REALLY interested in discussing some of the finer details of the ending, that's why I made this topic. I might not fully understand the sciences and theories involved here, but I do find them absolutely fascinating. So please, if anyone has answers to the questions/points I bring up, please feel free to respond to them. Or, for that matter, feel free to offer up your own! Surely I can't be the only one whose brain exploded about 5 minutes into the ending sequence after the big final battle.
Alright. The entire game revolves around quantum mechanics and an infinite multitude of possible worlds. That I can understand, but just like with most stories revolving around parallel universes and/or time travel, there's a lot of room for plot-holes that - surprisingly enough - can't be summed up by simply saying "magical quantum physics".
For starters there's the point that the ending would in no way solve anything. Thinking back on the story, in order for Booker to have had Anna and thus sold her away to pay off his debt it means that said Booker and Anna come from a universe in which Booker never accepts a baptism to wash away his sins, thus being reborn as Comstock. Alright, fair enough, the Comstock/Booker of some random dimension used the Device to open a door to a world in which he never became Comstock and thus had a baby that could be stolen.
Now, according to Elizabeth, killing Comstock in the world you play through solves nothing. There's still millions of worlds out there with millions of Comstocks, it'll never be over unless Comstock never exists. Alright, well lets go kill Comstock when he was born. And here comes the big revelation that you ARE Comstock. So in order to kill Comstock when he's still a child, you have to kill yourself. The problem is, doing so is a deliberate choice. And as is the theme behind the entire game (and one of the tenants of parallel universes, I at least know this much) every possible choice that can be made leads to an infinite number of possible universes. So here's the question: sure, by killing yourself, you prevent a Comstock from ever coming into being. But what about in all the potential universes in which Booker refuses to sacrifice himself? Comstock will always exist in those universes and there's not a damn thing that can be done about it. As such, doesn't the plan fail which leads to Booker drowning for absolutely no reason? And for THAT matter, couldn't Booker - armed with the knowledge that he IS Comstock - simply make the concious decision "I won't let that happen. I will NEVER become him!" effectively negate Comstock's existence as well? No, it wouldn't, because that's how Anna got taken from him in the first place: a Comstock from some random world reached into a world in which Booker never became Comstock and stole his daughter. It truly is an endless loop, one that can never be shattered no matter what Elizabeth and Booker try to do.
For that matter, here's a rather large question that I would have asked Elizabeth if I were in Booker's shoes when she insists that it isn't over just because you killed the Comstock in the current universe: "Why?" Unfortunately, Elizabeth, it seems as though the circle will indeed remain unbroken (loved that bit where you pick up the guitar and she sings)...because of the way the parallel universes work, it's impossible to erase Comstock from existence seeing as how his entire existence stems from a concious choice made by Booker, and no matter what you - as Booker - decide to do, there will always be countless other Bookers that decide not to. That being said - since trying to wipe out Comstock is impossible, and this is something Elizabeth should realize since she can see all the doors and what lies behind them - I would have said to her "Look Elizabeth, just because you can see all the doors doesn't mean you should open them. What's wrong with this world? We saved THIS world, our world, the world we're in right now. Columbia has fallen, Comstock is dead. New York won't be set on fire because you're not going to go all bitter, ruthless war-monger due the fact that I never came to save you. Because I did come and I did save you. Let's just forget all this business and go to Paris. We solved OUR problem, trying to fix all the universes will just drive us mad." Seems to me that would be the most sensible thing to do. Sure, there's still going to be countless Comstocks out there snatching up countless Annas from countless Bookers, but absolutely none of them matter to the Booker you're playing as and the Elizabeth that you rescued. For all intents and purposes, they could both move on with their lives and let the rest of the ininite universes solve their own problems the way they did.
And for THAT matter, what the hell happens when Songbird takes Elizabeth away towards the end of the game? To my knowledge, you use the Tears to jump to completely different universes/timelines four times. The first time is when you find that the gunsmith is dead, so you go to a world/timeline in which his brother-in-law (or something) is the head of Fink's security and thus he decides not to arrest the gunsmith. Hooray! He's alive! We can get the guns now! But damnit, now all his machines have been taken! So you search them out and find there's absolutely no way to get them get them out of where they're impounded at. But wait! Let's use this handy-dandy Tear to go to a world where they were never impounded at all! BAM! Problem solved and here comes the Revolution. You've now entered a world in which Booker has already been killed as a martyr for the revolution. This is why Daisy lables you an imposter and declares you an enemy of the Vox Populi, thus making the Vox hostile towards you for the rest of the game.
This is the world that the ending of the game takes place in. You proceed towards Comstock House, yadda yadda yadda, Songbird attacks and Elizabeth gives herself to him. Here's the question: how does that translate into her, YOUR Elizabeth, being imprisoned and tortured for (at least) 6 months when in reality it would have only taken Booker a couple hours to catch up to her? You find Voxophones left by Future Elizabeth talking about how she regrets what she has become and what she did. You find more in which the doctors are talking about the process of breaking her down, and you even get to listen to her getting tortured through some Tears (good god.....that was just BRUTAL to listen to....) And given the propaganda playing over the speakers, it becomes clear that you're in a Comstock House in a world in which Elizabeth has already risen to fulfill her role in Comstock's prophesy. I had assumed that the third "shift" occurs during the white-out when you're crossing the bridge and suddenly you see it's snowing and make the comment "It's snowing? In july?" This makes sense with Comstock House being Future Elizabeth's stronghold. This is why you say "But I was coming to get you!" and she says "Songbird always stops you." (that's one thing that bugged me, by the way, you never get to put the bird in his place...I think he would have made a MUCH better main boss battle rather than a "defend the airship" sequence.) Ok, fair enough. But then she uses the fourth "shift" and sends you back in time, giving you the chance to actually save her, the Elizabeth (I'm presuming) that was snatched away from you in the first place. So why does Elizabeth act like she's been stuck there for a very long time? Granted, this is under the presumption that she would have returned you not only to that world, but to relatively the same time as well...as I don't see the sense behind sending you back to a point 6 months after Elizabeth was taken from you...
Another thing I take issue with is the fact that Booker turns out to be Comstock at all. Seems to me that would mean that Comstock actually WAS at Peking and Wounded Knee, despite what Slate was ranting. If Booker was such a true hero of those battles, wouldn't Slate know that Booker is actually Comstock? Or does growing a Moses-beard provide an impenatrable disguise? And then what about the nose-bleed effect? If Comstock is Booker, then shouldn't Booker be having those "double-memory" issues throughout the entire game? Two Bookers are existing in the same world. Hell, you play as the a third Booker when you get into the world where the revolution is in full swing. Why do you get bleeding effects from Martyr Booker but not from Comstock himself?
For starters there's the point that the ending would in no way solve anything. Thinking back on the story, in order for Booker to have had Anna and thus sold her away to pay off his debt it means that said Booker and Anna come from a universe in which Booker never accepts a baptism to wash away his sins, thus being reborn as Comstock. Alright, fair enough, the Comstock/Booker of some random dimension used the Device to open a door to a world in which he never became Comstock and thus had a baby that could be stolen.
Now, according to Elizabeth, killing Comstock in the world you play through solves nothing. There's still millions of worlds out there with millions of Comstocks, it'll never be over unless Comstock never exists. Alright, well lets go kill Comstock when he was born. And here comes the big revelation that you ARE Comstock. So in order to kill Comstock when he's still a child, you have to kill yourself. The problem is, doing so is a deliberate choice. And as is the theme behind the entire game (and one of the tenants of parallel universes, I at least know this much) every possible choice that can be made leads to an infinite number of possible universes. So here's the question: sure, by killing yourself, you prevent a Comstock from ever coming into being. But what about in all the potential universes in which Booker refuses to sacrifice himself? Comstock will always exist in those universes and there's not a damn thing that can be done about it. As such, doesn't the plan fail which leads to Booker drowning for absolutely no reason? And for THAT matter, couldn't Booker - armed with the knowledge that he IS Comstock - simply make the concious decision "I won't let that happen. I will NEVER become him!" effectively negate Comstock's existence as well? No, it wouldn't, because that's how Anna got taken from him in the first place: a Comstock from some random world reached into a world in which Booker never became Comstock and stole his daughter. It truly is an endless loop, one that can never be shattered no matter what Elizabeth and Booker try to do.
For that matter, here's a rather large question that I would have asked Elizabeth if I were in Booker's shoes when she insists that it isn't over just because you killed the Comstock in the current universe: "Why?" Unfortunately, Elizabeth, it seems as though the circle will indeed remain unbroken (loved that bit where you pick up the guitar and she sings)...because of the way the parallel universes work, it's impossible to erase Comstock from existence seeing as how his entire existence stems from a concious choice made by Booker, and no matter what you - as Booker - decide to do, there will always be countless other Bookers that decide not to. That being said - since trying to wipe out Comstock is impossible, and this is something Elizabeth should realize since she can see all the doors and what lies behind them - I would have said to her "Look Elizabeth, just because you can see all the doors doesn't mean you should open them. What's wrong with this world? We saved THIS world, our world, the world we're in right now. Columbia has fallen, Comstock is dead. New York won't be set on fire because you're not going to go all bitter, ruthless war-monger due the fact that I never came to save you. Because I did come and I did save you. Let's just forget all this business and go to Paris. We solved OUR problem, trying to fix all the universes will just drive us mad." Seems to me that would be the most sensible thing to do. Sure, there's still going to be countless Comstocks out there snatching up countless Annas from countless Bookers, but absolutely none of them matter to the Booker you're playing as and the Elizabeth that you rescued. For all intents and purposes, they could both move on with their lives and let the rest of the ininite universes solve their own problems the way they did.
And for THAT matter, what the hell happens when Songbird takes Elizabeth away towards the end of the game? To my knowledge, you use the Tears to jump to completely different universes/timelines four times. The first time is when you find that the gunsmith is dead, so you go to a world/timeline in which his brother-in-law (or something) is the head of Fink's security and thus he decides not to arrest the gunsmith. Hooray! He's alive! We can get the guns now! But damnit, now all his machines have been taken! So you search them out and find there's absolutely no way to get them get them out of where they're impounded at. But wait! Let's use this handy-dandy Tear to go to a world where they were never impounded at all! BAM! Problem solved and here comes the Revolution. You've now entered a world in which Booker has already been killed as a martyr for the revolution. This is why Daisy lables you an imposter and declares you an enemy of the Vox Populi, thus making the Vox hostile towards you for the rest of the game.
This is the world that the ending of the game takes place in. You proceed towards Comstock House, yadda yadda yadda, Songbird attacks and Elizabeth gives herself to him. Here's the question: how does that translate into her, YOUR Elizabeth, being imprisoned and tortured for (at least) 6 months when in reality it would have only taken Booker a couple hours to catch up to her? You find Voxophones left by Future Elizabeth talking about how she regrets what she has become and what she did. You find more in which the doctors are talking about the process of breaking her down, and you even get to listen to her getting tortured through some Tears (good god.....that was just BRUTAL to listen to....) And given the propaganda playing over the speakers, it becomes clear that you're in a Comstock House in a world in which Elizabeth has already risen to fulfill her role in Comstock's prophesy. I had assumed that the third "shift" occurs during the white-out when you're crossing the bridge and suddenly you see it's snowing and make the comment "It's snowing? In july?" This makes sense with Comstock House being Future Elizabeth's stronghold. This is why you say "But I was coming to get you!" and she says "Songbird always stops you." (that's one thing that bugged me, by the way, you never get to put the bird in his place...I think he would have made a MUCH better main boss battle rather than a "defend the airship" sequence.) Ok, fair enough. But then she uses the fourth "shift" and sends you back in time, giving you the chance to actually save her, the Elizabeth (I'm presuming) that was snatched away from you in the first place. So why does Elizabeth act like she's been stuck there for a very long time? Granted, this is under the presumption that she would have returned you not only to that world, but to relatively the same time as well...as I don't see the sense behind sending you back to a point 6 months after Elizabeth was taken from you...
Another thing I take issue with is the fact that Booker turns out to be Comstock at all. Seems to me that would mean that Comstock actually WAS at Peking and Wounded Knee, despite what Slate was ranting. If Booker was such a true hero of those battles, wouldn't Slate know that Booker is actually Comstock? Or does growing a Moses-beard provide an impenatrable disguise? And then what about the nose-bleed effect? If Comstock is Booker, then shouldn't Booker be having those "double-memory" issues throughout the entire game? Two Bookers are existing in the same world. Hell, you play as the a third Booker when you get into the world where the revolution is in full swing. Why do you get bleeding effects from Martyr Booker but not from Comstock himself?
