Racist tram woman watches video evidence; denies everything

[Darkmantle]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

No it's not. so yes you are justifying it you horrible racist.

Whoa whoa WHOOOOA! Hold on there!

You call jazoni a "horrible racist" for suggesting that high levels of immigration might merely be "an issue"? You're saying Jazoli justified her uncouth outburst just because there may be something worth looking at on the basis of this issue?

Do you realise what you are saying?

This is thought-crime!

This is censorship of the worst order!

When did the issue of immigration become a form of blasphemy?

you know what, I disagree with you, so

I'M GOING TO GO TO SOMEWHERE YOU FREQUENT AND SCREAM AT YOU FOR 10 MINUTES USING PROFANITY AND SLURS, AND USE MY CHILD AS A DEFENCE

RA RA RA RA RA RA.


She didn't "state an opinion" she yelled it cursing and swearing at people she assumed were contributing to the problem, without any knowledge of the people she was yelling at what so ever.

Theres a difference between stating an opinion and attacking other people with it. If see was WAY more calm about this whole thing, she probably would have been let off. I'd put money on it.

TLR having an opinion does not justify harassment.

Cursing and swearing? What like you hear every time you turn on the TV?

Come on, she'd sitting down with a toddler on her lap, no way she's intimidating anyone. It's "harassment" of the most benign order! Yeah, she made some jibes, that's the point where the police give her a talking to that this behaviour is unacceptable and get a warning. NOT IMEMDIATLEY ARRESTED AND HAVE HER TRIED IN COURT! Not Take away her children! Not Try to have her imprisoned like she is guilty of some grievous assault!

And all this doesn't excuse you calling jazoni a "horrible racist".

Darkmantle, Now I've seen you on the forums before, I know in other topics you are reasonable and don't fly off the handle like this. What the HELL is going on? Why has everyone gone crazy over this issue?

shall I do up and transcript for the video?

Woman "is this what this countries come to?"

"a load of black people and a load of fucking polish."
"a load of fucking n- (indistict noise) - yeah, your fucking--"

That's the first 10 seconds. a total of 3 fuckings. And it continues at about that rate. Yeah some shows I watch late at night have swearing maybe half as frequent, But I'm an adult, and those are on late. She is cursing and swearing in front of her child. I assume you wouldn't swear like that in front of your young kids. And I'm sure something was really bothering her that day and she was very upset about it, but that doesn't mean she has the right to lash out a people who have done nothing wrong as far as she knows. also adding the "get out of my country" in there a few times. That's a clear hate crime to me, also, it could be argued that she was using her child like a shield, so people wouldn't yell back at her, the other passengers, the ones she insults, seem to have more respect for her child then she does. That's why I can't support her.

Although I'm sure she should get off lighter than she's going to, I have no doubt the book will be thrown at her because of how well publicised this is, and she definitely doesn't deserve all of what's coming to her for sure.

Also I apologize, I get too worked up and confrontational over racism issues sometimes, sorry.

I also get worked up as soon as someone references 1984, damn I hated that book. And most people have no idea what the are talking about when they talk about it. most people do anyway.

I get it there is a lot of swearing but I don't think that is really such a problem. What is the difference between one swear word and three? And I think it's a bit harsh that saying a woman holding her child on her lap is using it as a shield, that just too cynical.

Emigration is not hate.

Inciting violence is hate! These hate crime laws were to target leaders of lynch mobs and racist-parties who plan offensive and intimidatory actions, not a mother having a freak-out on a train.

I'm going to ask you to stop and really consider this for a second: what if this was your mother.

I don't know if you've actually been fortunate enough to have a mother but your parent or guardian, have they ever had the screaming heebie jeebies and said a load of things they don't really mean? That's just an outburst of every idle prejudice and annoyance.

I'm not saying she's right, I'm just saying she isn't as bad as "lock her up and separate her from her family" bad. It's not one extreme or the other, there is the shade of grey here.

Remember, the racists you REALLY want to worry about are the quiet ones. It's the ones who dress up their prejudices and conspire in plain sight. This woman is being used as a scapegoat by both the normal people AND the undercover-racists who like to have this be the face of racism, well racism is everywhere, insidious and feeds of hate and conflict.

But that's not to say racism is a person, it is an idea. You don't destroy an idea by destroying people, that only makes it grow, you destroy it with kindness and courage, like turning the other cheek and helping the mean old lady. Don't you see how that UTTERLY SHATTERS racist prejudices? And add on "I'm not such a bloody immigrant now am I?" to reaffirm your decision.

This is what my parents raised me on. That Hate it wrong. Both FROM racists, and AGAINST them. Racism is an idea that feeds off hate, hate going BOTH ways.

what's the difference between one swear word and three?

someone who's upset about their state of affairs and venting, and a raving lunatic.

I don't think you are using the word you think you are using "emigration"

Definition for emigration:
Web definitions:
migration from a place (especially migration from your native country in order to settle in another).
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
So no, leaving your native country is not hate, But I doubt that's what you meant.

and if my mother was stupid enough to act like that, I expect her to get punished, and more than an idle slap on the wrist. I don't see how it being my mother should change my opinion, unless you think I only hold this opinion lightly.

I highly doubt there is some kind of secret racist organization somehow feeding off people who hate them, as if everyone thinking you're an asshole makes you stronger.

Being kind to racists doesn't stop them from being racist, it reaffirms their feelings of superiority. I know in the states segregation was not ended by the blacks being nicer to racists, it was ended when they passively resisted them. Passive resistance is not being nice. You think every time a black person did something nice for a white man the white guy was like "gee they're not so bad after all"? or was it more likely they were more along the lines of "damn right, you are beneath me".

And I don't take such a black and white view of hate. Any racists who still exist in this century are simply refusing to change against all evidence, and as such I don't feel any need to be kind to them. Fuck them. Hopefully their kids grow up smarter, because the parents are already too set in their ways.

Being nice to them only makes them think that what they are doing is acceptable.

now granted, this woman is going to have the book thrown through her if possible, by the courts. So the ruling will be harsher than needed, but not even close to unwarranted. At the very least child services should be heavily re-evaluating her fitness to parent. Someone who throws a fit like that is not capable of raising children. they are children, not yet mature enough to act in a reasonable matter and too busy throwing temper tantrums and swearing.

 

[Koroviev]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

...But that's not what she's saying, she wants all the non-natives to leave Britain, no matter how long or how many generations they've lived there simply because they are foreign, not because any of them are seeking asylum

Her views has been blown out of proportion yes, but it is what spurs most people on in the first place to make such comments like these.

I wouldn't know for sure though I'm not her Psychiatrist, but it is the main vocal point reared towards racial row's in this country.

The woman has no idea what she's talking about and probably inherited her stupid and bigotted views from her equally stupid and bigotted parents.

Reminds me of this guy


I also want Britain to be about British, but those damn Muslamic Ray Guns ruin everything.

You lose brain cells watching that. It's painful.

 

[CATS FTW]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html

Now I don't like the daily mail either but her are video links for this story, racism goes both ways y'all. Let's just agree that human empathy needs to be turned up a notch.

 

[red the fister]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

Feh. Unemployment is a global issue because there are just too goddamned many human beings on earth. Trying to pin it on people seeking asylum is little better than fat rednecks screaming that the Mexicans took their jobs.

My point is, blaming -other- people just trying to get by is bull. Blame rich corporate fuckers hoarding more money than they will ever need, or blame pretty much everyone opposed to birth control.

I could tell from not looking at your profile that you are not British.

The thing is Britain is too small of a country, and our immigration laws are very loose, so the fresh faced immagrants get support, and a lot of welfare from our government. While all of us working class are having a hard time to keep afloat, so everyone is feeling the pinch at moment, except for the insanely rich, and of course the immigrants.

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

The money is all they care about, respecting everyone else, and hell even speaking basic english comes second to them.

man, we have a lot of the same bullshit going on here in america. pricks thinking that the world is supposed to change to conform to their desires. you may have heard fox snewz bitching about "the war on christmas"? it's a federal holiday, made so because a president said it embodied (past-tense) all the highest ideals that america stood for. yet acknowledging it as the reason we go bat shit-stupid this time of year is a wonderful way to go and get ostracized and be accused of being anti-whatever-the-fuck the accuser thinks is right.

no matter where you go, locals will blame the Outsider for all of their problems.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

No matter what, free speach should never let you do that in a place where people have to listen to you, as they can't walk away.

 

[red the fister]

These ladies who sit on trains and trams screaming out these obscenities have no excuse and are clearly idiots. Anyone who thinks they have close to a point are also retarded

So those who break down just once should be imprisoned and be separated from their family forever?

I would smack that ***** so hard her tits would spin.

Why not physical violence and some sexism to boot?!?!? What... what the FUCK happened to this website?!?!?

This will only embolden the hardcore skinhead-racists. You think hate can be matched with hate.

You think this sort of violent rhetoric and over-reactionary prison sentences and breaking up of families is the right way to defeat with racism and xenophobia? Take a step back and fucking look at yourself.

I shoved an elderly lady through the doors of a tram when she called me a "Jävla invandare"

You disgust me.

As a carer of the elderly that, that is almost inconceivable that you'd do that... that's bad enough but you seem bloody proud of it. Proud of it?! People say shit all the time, it's just words. You know how all these cases of abuse begin in care homes? Of elderly and infirm ladies being beaten and starved? One day they are a bit rude - because they are crotchety and old - and some FUCKING BULLY just uses that as an excuse to lash out at them!

Take a look at yourself. Ask yourself, are you a bully?

You know what you should have done when she said "Jävla invandare" to you? You should have offered your hand to help her on the tram. And proved she was wrong about you.

But you didn't you didn't just reaffirm her prejudice... you may have just proven her right.

You condemn his actions but condone the old lady's? You sir are a hypocrite. You said yourself, "hate with hate" but apparently her hate is okay? I don't even know what that phrase means, but I'll assume it's some slur, Personally I would have just told her off, very colourfully, but you can't sit here and tell me that what she did was okay. She was being the bully, and he responded to it. She probably thought that she could get away with whatever she said because no one would say anything back to an old lady, using her age as a defence, and to you apparently an excuse, to bully and insult people. If all he did was push her off the train, That's hardly bullying. Maybe if he punched her in the face, which was likely coming if she didn't shut up.

and sexism, really? Because someone mentions tits they are sexist now? how about we go find every woman who said "punch him in the nuts" and call them sexist too? That comment has nothing bad to say about her sex, if she were male instead of female, the comment would have been adjusted accordingly. maybe to something like, "I'd punch him in the nuts", would that have been sexist to you? It's sex specific, not sexist.

Google Translated it to "Bloody Immigrant"

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

No matter what, free speach should never let you do that in a place where people have to listen to you, as they can't walk away.

ok. i've gotten a quite tired of, what i assume are, my fellow americans - apparently - believing that our constitution holds legal weight out side of our borders, embassies and off of our naval vessels in regards to foreigners so i went a wiki trolling (as some fishermen do) and i found this page HERE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom !!!
i don't want to dump too much text at ya
"There are many exceptions including threatening, abusive, or insulting speech or behavior likely to cause a breach of the peace,[42][43] which has been used to prohibit racist speech targeted at individuals, incitement,[44] incitement to racial hatred,[45] incitement to religious hatred, incitement to terrorism including encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications,[44][46] glorifying terrorism,[47][48] collection or possession of information likely to be of use to a terrorist,[49][50] treason including imagining the death of the monarch,[51] sedition,[51] obscenity, indecency including corruption of public morals and outraging public decency,[52] defamation,[53] prior restraint, restrictions on court reporting including names of victims and evidence and prejudicing or interfering with court proceedings,[54][55] prohibition of post-trial interviews with jurors,[55] scandalizing the court by criticising or murmuring judges,[55] time, manner, and place restrictions,[56] harassment, privileged communications, trade secrets, classified material, copyright, patents, military conduct, and limitations on commercial speech such as advertising."

her rant, almost called that a speech :-/, i do not recall as being threatening, but it was abusive and insulting in addition to being racist, as long as nationality is equated to race then it was indeed racist... does British law equate nationality to race?

 

[Dark Knifer]

They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

Just wanted to point out, their burkas are a huge part in their religious tradition, if they were to not do that then they would be punished. Badly, depending on the group they are a part of. Plus I don't remember Britain ever having a uniform so I don't really see the problem honestly, it's not disrespecting your culture at all, just following what they are told to by their faith.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

I won't defend the content of her rant, but I think that police services could be better used than hunting down people saying stupid shit on trains.

 

[Dascylus]

These ladies who sit on trains and trams screaming out these obscenities have no excuse and are clearly idiots. Anyone who thinks they have close to a point are also retarded

So those who break down just once should be imprisoned and be separated from their family forever?

I would smack that ***** so hard her tits would spin.

Why not physical violence and some sexism to boot?!?!? What... what the FUCK happened to this website?!?!?

You know what you should have done when she said "Jävla invandare" to you? You should have offered your hand to help her on the tram. And proved she was wrong about you.

But you didn't you didn't just reaffirm her prejudice... you may have just proven her right.

I pointed out that I would smack young old male and female for spouting clearly racist and inappropriate carp.
As for the old lady, I shortened the story as I had already written a rather long post.
The problem had been that the tram was already crowded and she had forced her way on with her walker. As she could not take a space further in the tram she stood in the doorway. I was there with my childs pram and saw that at the next stop it was nigh impossible for anyone to get off the tram.
I noticed that there was another tram going to the same destination by the same route directly behind us and so I initially politely started by saying "excuse me" (In swedish). She deliberately avoided direct eye contact and proceeded to ignore me.
She jumped 3 feet when I tapped her on the shoulder.
Then followed a conversation where I attempted to explain that it was more convenient and safer for her to get of at the next stop and take the next tram.
She insisted that she was in a hurry... (The next tram was following directly behind so close that it was waiting at each stop.)
As more and more people attempted to get off at their stops and found it difficult because she was in the way I pointed out to her (and I was getting annoyed at her blind obstinance at this point so I was more direct but I remained as polite as possible) that she was also posing a safety hazard in the event of an accident.
That was the point where she started to rail against immigrants and how we have no respect etc, taking jobs and benefits.
At this point I stopped talking but 3 stops later when she was still talking and still standing in the way I had to get off with my child in her pram.
She was so insistent on standing her ground that the only course of action was to just drive forwards.
She was forced to get off or be run down and ans I walked up the hill and looked behind me the doors had closed on her and she was unable to get back on.
I also noticed that as people have a tendency to take the first available tram that the one following was much less crowded. She was able to take a seat.
If you feel her age or gender was a factor in any decision I made then you are wrong.

I can understand if the short version of my tale misled you.
If I was living home in England and saw such behaviour then I whóuld react the same way.
as I said before, this is the 21st century. And especially in a very multicultural country like England I feel that such ignorance is unacceptable.

If the woman was replaced with a skinhead with boots, wife-beater and shaved head would you be as welcoming to their right to voice their opinions in such a public, vile and open manner?

 

[Treblaine]

These ladies who sit on trains and trams screaming out these obscenities have no excuse and are clearly idiots. Anyone who thinks they have close to a point are also retarded

So those who break down just once should be imprisoned and be separated from their family forever?

I would smack that ***** so hard her tits would spin.

Why not physical violence and some sexism to boot?!?!? What... what the FUCK happened to this website?!?!?

You know what you should have done when she said "Jävla invandare" to you? You should have offered your hand to help her on the tram. And proved she was wrong about you.

But you didn't you didn't just reaffirm her prejudice... you may have just proven her right.

I pointed out that I would smack young old male and female for spouting clearly racist and inappropriate carp.
As for the old lady, I shortened the story as I had already written a rather long post.
The problem had been that the tram was already crowded and she had forced her way on with her walker. As she could not take a space further in the tram she stood in the doorway. I was there with my childs pram and saw that at the next stop it was nigh impossible for anyone to get off the tram.
I noticed that there was another tram going to the same destination by the same route directly behind us and so I initially politely started by saying "excuse me" (In swedish). She deliberately avoided direct eye contact and proceeded to ignore me.
She jumped 3 feet when I tapped her on the shoulder.
Then followed a conversation where I attempted to explain that it was more convenient and safer for her to get of at the next stop and take the next tram.
She insisted that she was in a hurry... (The next tram was following directly behind so close that it was waiting at each stop.)
As more and more people attempted to get off at their stops and found it difficult because she was in the way I pointed out to her (and I was getting annoyed at her blind obstinance at this point so I was more direct but I remained as polite as possible) that she was also posing a safety hazard in the event of an accident.
That was the point where she started to rail against immigrants and how we have no respect etc, taking jobs and benefits.
At this point I stopped talking but 3 stops later when she was still talking and still standing in the way I had to get off with my child in her pram.
She was so insistent on standing her ground that the only course of action was to just drive forwards.
She was forced to get off or be run down and ans I walked up the hill and looked behind me the doors had closed on her and she was unable to get back on.
I also noticed that as people have a tendency to take the first available tram that the one following was much less crowded. She was able to take a seat.
If you feel her age or gender was a factor in any decision I made then you are wrong.

I can understand if the short version of my tale misled you.
If I was living home in England and saw such behaviour then I whóuld react the same way.
as I said before, this is the 21st century. And especially in a very multicultural country like England I feel that such ignorance is unacceptable.

If the woman was replaced with a skinhead with boots, wife-beater and shaved head would you be as welcoming to their right to voice their opinions in such a public, vile and open manner?

I think you suggestion of sudden violence in response to mere words Is completely contrary to how modern society can possibly hope to function. It is frankly something more Feudal or Medieval to justify summarily striking people across the face for speaking the wrong words. It's barely even appropriate as a joke, only you seem to be serious.

This is no excuse to shove, especially an elderly lady. Shoving is violence that against an old lady who has bones literally as fragile as glass could be serious.

You are also completely changing you story from:
-Tram was suddenly so crowded it would be "impossible" for another person to get on, didn't say that
-There was another tram immediately behind, neglected that
-She "jumped 3 feet when I tapped her on the shoulder."
-You were apparently polite and told her she was being inconvenient and a safety hazard
-you had actually let her on the tram, for 3 Stops?
-Suddenly now you didn't shove her off but "She was forced to get off or be run down"
-No mention of quiet applause from tram-occupants nor even it seems an opportunity

Against:

I shoved an elderly lady through the doors of a tram (In a manner indicating she should get off and wait for the next one) when she called me a "Jävla invandare" during her similar tirade and was applauded quietly by my fellow passengers.

...


"I said before, this is the 21st century. And especially in a very multicultural country"

No. We are supposed to live in a TOLERANT society! Not one of cruel and arbitrary bias. Harshness or cruelty because it either goes FOR or Against a certain status quo is unacceptable. Rosa Parks didn't shove anyone off a public transport, SHE was shoved off!

If the woman was replaced with a skinhead with boots, wife-beater and shaved head would you be as welcoming to their right to voice their opinions in such a public, vile and open manner?

Vile? What obscene things did she reference? As in to genitals, defection, lewd or gory acts? You neglected to mention that. You can't just use vile to characterise the opposing argument to controversial issues like immigration.

A skinhead's words don't hurt any more than an old lady's, it's just that it is a threat to use their physical strength and suspected partial prowess for violent attack that is indicated by violent words. In which case it is a completely different situation. Also skinheads are clearly trolls, everything about their dress and mode is design to intimidate and incite unrest, but old ladies ranting about and issue you CANNOT compare the a para-military arch-racist!

And I wouldn't resort to shoving a Skinhead either, I would engage and THINK about how to defuse the situation and only resort to any sort of physical action in preservation, self-defence. We're all human beings, can we not relate on that? Change the subject, sooth the issue, don't butt heads! If they persist them they are being a clear threat. An old lady daring to suggest that the status quo should be changed on immigration is not a threat that should be acted against so harshly as if she is a racist gang member spoiling for a fight!

Also do NOT make the straw man argument that I "welcome" such outburst. I don't. They clearly are inflammatory and muddy the issue. Why am I suddenly on their side just because I don't want to needlessly escalate the situation? I'm PRO immigration! I've lived half my life as an Immigrant.

You know what I HAVE been on trains and found myself conversing with elderly people where they go on a tirade about "bloody immigrants" and I don't let myself get mad at them or confrontational with them, because I know the second you've done that you've lost them. I take the opportunity to school them. And if you can't hope to change their mind why bother speaking to them abut this? Show a bit of diplomacy. I certainly don't try to bodily remove them! That will ONLY reaffirm their prejudices.

This is the upbringing I've had.

And this is what I take from the Civil Rights Movement of the American South, that wasn't won by shoving around old ladies as if it was right, but by realising it was WRONG.

 

[Treblaine]

what's the difference between one swear word and three?

someone who's upset about their state of affairs and venting, and a raving lunatic.

I don't think you are using the word you think you are using "emigration"

Definition for emigration:
Web definitions:
migration from a place (especially migration from your native country in order to settle in another).
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
So no, leaving your native country is not hate, But I doubt that's what you meant.

and if my mother was stupid enough to act like that, I expect her to get punished, and more than an idle slap on the wrist. I don't see how it being my mother should change my opinion, unless you think I only hold this opinion lightly.

I highly doubt there is some kind of secret racist organization somehow feeding off people who hate them, as if everyone thinking you're an asshole makes you stronger.

Being kind to racists doesn't stop them from being racist, it reaffirms their feelings of superiority. I know in the states segregation was not ended by the blacks being nicer to racists, it was ended when they passively resisted them. Passive resistance is not being nice. You think every time a black person did something nice for a white man the white guy was like "gee they're not so bad after all"? or was it more likely they were more along the lines of "damn right, you are beneath me".

And I don't take such a black and white view of hate. Any racists who still exist in this century are simply refusing to change against all evidence, and as such I don't feel any need to be kind to them. Fuck them. Hopefully their kids grow up smarter, because the parents are already too set in their ways.

Being nice to them only makes them think that what they are doing is acceptable.

now granted, this woman is going to have the book thrown through her if possible, by the courts. So the ruling will be harsher than needed, but not even close to unwarranted. At the very least child services should be heavily re-evaluating her fitness to parent. Someone who throws a fit like that is not capable of raising children. they are children, not yet mature enough to act in a reasonable matter and too busy throwing temper tantrums and swearing.

I mean Emigration, "moving of people out of a country of area" this is hardly blasphemy.

The Civil rights movement was won by gaining the moral high ground and shaming the racists into stopping their discrimination. It was the speeches of Martin Luther King, calling not for division but for unity. He asked for forgiveness, reconciliation and fairness, he did NOT want a race war. When he was assassinated his message only stood more poignant.

Passive resistance only worked so far.

And I don't take such a black and white view of hate. Any racists who still exist in this century are simply refusing to change against all evidence, and as such I don't feel any need to be kind to them.

But that IS a "black and white" view. Any amount of racism means they deserve no amount of kindness?!? Do you think that will ever convert them from their racist ways? By fighting with them? That will only turn racists further towards extremism.

Being nice to them only makes them think that what they are doing is acceptable.

No. No no no no. How can you characterise kindness like that?

I'm not saying slavish subservience. I mean in a clear case like a strong your man who has every physical advantage over an elderly lady he use kindness to prove her racist ideas are wrong, that immigrants are not a curse on her country but will help her.

Someone who throws a fit like that is not capable of raising children.

Have you parents NEVER thrown a fit like that? Regardless of any racial aspect? They've never had a rant and rave over something? You realise what kind of precedent this sets for breaking up families? Do you have any idea how cruel it is what you are condoning?

 

[mightybozz]

I freely admit that I'm late to the thread and haven't got time to read the rest before I go to work, but:

She didn't plead not guilty. Several papers (the Metro, for instance), say that her not guilty plea was entered as an administrative error. She's yet to plead, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Dascylus]

These ladies who sit on trains and trams screaming out these obscenities have no excuse and are clearly idiots. Anyone who thinks they have close to a point are also retarded

So those who break down just once should be imprisoned and be separated from their family forever?

I would smack that ***** so hard her tits would spin.

Why not physical violence and some sexism to boot?!?!? What... what the FUCK happened to this website?!?!?

You know what you should have done when she said "Jävla invandare" to you? You should have offered your hand to help her on the tram. And proved she was wrong about you.

But you didn't you didn't just reaffirm her prejudice... you may have just proven her right.

I pointed out that I would smack young old male and female for spouting clearly racist and inappropriate carp.
As for the old lady, I shortened the story as I had already written a rather long post.

If the woman was replaced with a skinhead with boots, wife-beater and shaved head would you be as welcoming to their right to voice their opinions in such a public, vile and open manner?

Vile? What obscene things did she reference? As in to genitals, defection, lewd or gory acts? You neglected to mention that. You can't just use vile to characterise the opposing argument to controversial issues like immigration.

A skinhead's words don't hurt any more than an old lady's, it's just that it is a threat to use their physical strength and suspected partial prowess for violent attack that is indicated by violent words. In which case it is a completely different situation. Also skinheads are clearly trolls, everything about their dress and mode is design to intimidate and incite unrest, but old ladies ranting about and issue you CANNOT compare the a para-military arch-racist!

And I wouldn't resort to shoving a Skinhead either, I would engage and THINK about how to defuse the situation and only resort to any sort of physical action in preservation, self-defence. We're all human beings, can we not relate on that? Change the subject, sooth the issue, don't butt heads! If they persist them they are being a clear threat. An old lady daring to suggest that the status quo should be changed on immigration is not a threat that should be acted against so harshly as if she is a racist gang member spoiling for a fight!

Also do NOT make the straw man argument that I "welcome" such outburst. I don't. They clearly are inflammatory and muddy the issue. Why am I suddenly on their side just because I don't want to needlessly escalate the situation? I'm PRO immigration! I've lived half my life as an Immigrant.

You know what I HAVE been on trains and found myself conversing with elderly people where they go on a tirade about "bloody immigrants" and I don't let myself get mad at them or confrontational with them, because I know the second you've done that you've lost them. I take the opportunity to school them. And if you can't hope to change their mind why bother speaking to them abut this? Show a bit of diplomacy. I certainly don't try to bodily remove them! That will ONLY reaffirm their prejudices.

This is the upbringing I've had.

And this is what I take from the Civil Rights Movement of the American South, that wasn't won by shoving around old ladies as if it was right, but by realising it was WRONG.

A man was smoking on the tram the other day, an old lady asked him to put it out and he just grunted and carried on. When I stood up and told him to put it out he got off at the next stop.
A teenager was smoking on the tram the other day, a mother with a child asked him to put it out. He laughed and carried on. I stood up, he put it out.
You can see in the OPs video that the guy sitting behind the lady wants to do something but he is stopped. But what if we had. what if instead of allowing racism because we don't want to cause a scene or be direct we make racists afraid of shouting their hate on a tram, train or bus full of people.
I like immigration, if I were so inclined I could apply for and take a job anywhere in the EU absolutely freely.
If ever you visit the UK, pick up a copy of The Daily Mail and you will see the type of stories that have fueled this womans opinions.
Headlines designed to sell papers become public opinion and nobody tells them they are wrong.

 

[FamoFunk]

Crying because She knows she's gonna be hated by, pretty much the world now, and because She's gonna be in deep shit with fines/prison etc.

She's not crying because of what She did, or because She feels sorry for the passengers and her Son, She feels sorry for herself.

Mt heart goes out to that little Boy, I hope he's being looked after a family member or something who doesn't share this Woman's views and is just loved.

 

[FamoFunk]

Someone who throws a fit like that is not capable of raising children.

Have you parents NEVER thrown a fit like that? Regardless of any racial aspect? They've never had a rant and rave over something? You realise what kind of precedent this sets for breaking up families? Do you have any idea how cruel it is what you are condoning?

What? I can safely say my parents have never ranted and raved like her. And if I ever did it while my child was around me, I'd be so utterly ashamed of myself.

Honestly, what this Woman did was more than a, "Rant and rave"

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

^this x 1,000. That's all I have to say

 

[Hoplon]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

No it's not. so yes you are justifying it you horrible racist.

Whoa whoa WHOOOOA! Hold on there!

You call jazoni a "horrible racist" for suggesting that high levels of immigration might merely be "an issue"? You're saying Jazoli justified her uncouth outburst just because there may be something worth looking at on the basis of this issue?

Do you realise what you are saying?

This is thought-crime!

This is censorship of the worst order!

When did the issue of immigration become a form of blasphemy?

It hasn't, but it's only a problem in the eyes of a daily mail reading limited world view racist. since most of the shitty low paying jobs in the uk get filled by immigrants because NO ONE ELSE WILL DO THEM.

the immigration as a blight on the nation just isn't there, they don't get treated well, they don't live fat off the state and the people the believe they do want some one to blame for all their woes.