Random ramblings about Bullshit Art

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Every time we have a "poetry unit" in school, the shit is indeed quite cash because its so damn easy. Now I may have a knack for it but it seems that it takes no effort to write good poetry.
1) As long as you put some allusions and implications you're set. Just sit back and watch as people look too deep into it and find things you didn't intend.
2) Humorous poetry is harder, since making someone laugh takes more work than making someone go "hmm". I enjoy writing funny/story poetry.

With all forms of art, the name seems to be more important than the work. A painting done by a famous french guy would be loved more than a painting done by a corporate guy in a suit who acts business like. This isn't relevant in a school setting, but it helps to understand what it takes to not make good art, but to make your art liked.

I've done a project for science fair that involved a painting being showcased at different schools by different kids, nobody would know about it and they'd think the painting belonged to whichever kid was 'claiming' it. One kid was a handsome senior who claimed to be a well known poet, another kid was a skater who didn't really care about art theory and thought it was hooey, and the third was an elitist hipster guy who took art too seriously. We asked students from the 3 schools to write what they thought about the work of art. The kids who saw the senior liked it the most, and the kids who saw the skater were divided on love or hate, not much middle ground. And the elitist had mostly negative views. PM me if you want more info on that, it was a pretty cool project and it opened some eyes.

Anyways on topic, the business of art seems to be the most dangerous thing to invest in. The most important skill is marketing and your image, then your artistic skill (if any) follows. I find it funny how back in the day, nobody could draw, so people like Leonardo were the gods of art. Nowadays his level of skill is reached by tons of people, so "good art" is not about technical skill anymore.

In art class, all we learned about was putting our emotions onto paper and expressing ourselves and what old artists did a long time ago. Fuck I just want to learn how to draw faces and realistic animal and how to shade with a pencil. Turns out that's advanced art, so I feel like I wasted a whole term.

BUT ANYWAYS onto abstract art. I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy. Oh well abstract art is supposed to mean something to the viewer All art is! A painting of a guy could be boring to you, but look at surreal art. Its like abstract art but with actual skill involved. Some of it is mind bending to be honest.

I would rather awe at something that took hours and required mastery of tools than to praise someone for something I could have done.

I am not an artist but if I could make money by drawing a few simple shapes and lines I definitely would. But I don't know if I could sacrifice my ideals and views about good art.

edit: by abstract art I mean more Modern Art in general. Can't be arsed to go edit every mention of it.
 

Quaxar

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Douk said:
BUT ANYWAYS onto abstract art. I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy. Oh well abstract art is supposed to mean something to the viewer All art is! A painting of a guy could be boring to you, but look at surreal art. Its like abstract art but with actual skill involved. Some of it is mind bending to be honest.
Exactly my view. Even worse are installations/ready-mades. Yes, this is a fucking urinal. No, this is NOT worth a few thousands. It's worth the price you bought it for you idiot, now go make real art!
Same with poetry. Feels like some people don't even try anymore. No rhymes, no scheme, it's just prose with a 70% increased use of the Enter-Key.

Luk at me
I can write poems
Aren't I great? I don't even
Know wat I does
There.
 

eggy32

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I agree that most modern art is awful. It's really the art critics who do all the work and look too deeply into it. What an artist did was throw something together randomly. To an art critic, art is immediately seen as some sort of expression of opinions. Art in general confuses me. I understand than some art looks beautiful and can be used to make money. I don't understand why an artist would choose this method to get across a view or opinion, especially since they rarely explicitly state what that view is, so it's left to interpretations and it's impossible to know which is right.

Therefore, I conclude that most art these days is just a cheap and easy way of making money, and people who are art critics just want an easy job that makes them feel important.
 

eggy32

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Quaxar said:
Douk said:
BUT ANYWAYS onto abstract art. I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy. Oh well abstract art is supposed to mean something to the viewer All art is! A painting of a guy could be boring to you, but look at surreal art. Its like abstract art but with actual skill involved. Some of it is mind bending to be honest.
Exactly my view. Even worse are installations/ready-mades. Yes, this is a fucking urinal. No, this is NOT worth a few thousands. It's worth the price you bought it for you idiot, now go make real art!
Same with poetry. Feels like some people don't even try anymore. No rhymes, no scheme, it's just prose with a 70% increased use of the Enter-Key.

Luk at me
I can write poems
Aren't I great? I don't even
Know wat I does
There.
By modern standards you could be revered as the new Shakespeare. Let your gift run free to the public!
 

Carbonic Penguin

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Ever heard of an old game called Total Distortion? It has a poetry generator in it, called MacBeatnik... it makes people go hmmmm... And nowadays, people don't want art that looks good, they've got photographs for that, people want art that evokes emotions, or makes some kind of statement about life. At least, that's what I think... it's highly subjective.
 

Blueruler182

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I'm not even going to bother reading it because the answer is always the same in this case.

Art is subjective.

EDIT: After reading it I have deduced that my previous answer only applied for your abstract section. On further review I have to agree on a few things. First and foremost, poetry does seem increasingly easy to do with form and function and free verse is complete bullshit, even if it's the only type I can do.

Second, I agree that an art class should teach some techniques. But I will say you should probably look into a drawing class or some how to draw books if you want to learn how to draw faces and such.
 

Zarokima

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When I hear modern/abstract art, I think of Jackson Pollock.

http://www.google.com/images?q=jackson%20pollock

Pictured: random paint splatters that look like they were made in less than a minute "art"
 

eggy32

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Carbonic Penguin said:
it's highly subjective.
That's the problem. How is somebody supposed to portray an emotion or statement about life if it's not interpreted the way they creator intended. They could be sending the wrong message to millions of people.
 

Quaxar

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eggy32 said:
Let your gift run free to the public!
I'd rather not, last time I did this I got a complaint for Public Indecency.

... oh, you mean my artistic gift. Of course! Silly me.
 

eggy32

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Quaxar said:
eggy32 said:
Let your gift run free to the public!
I'd rather not, last time I did this I got a complaint for Public Indecency.

... oh, you mean my artistic gift. Of course! Silly me.
If you're getting arrested for it, it's only because the cops are jealous.

And perhaps you could merge your two gifts into some sort of super art.
 

Deleted

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If art is subjective, why is it so hard for some people to make a living as an artist. And why is it so easy for some people with just a little effort?

People who think that this

is just as good as this

are wrong in my eyes. Sure the scribbles could mean a lot more but I see skill>meaning. Skill is meant to be praised because not everyone has it. Why praise something you could do yourself, if you see your childhood in a painting of lines, paint your own lines and go on a nostalgia trip.

My complaint is that art is not about technical skill anymore, only art has become its the simplest medium. Books, movies, games, songs all require skill because they are more complex than a painting.

My biggest gripe is 3D art that's just a few things put together. For example, a bike covered in chocolate. That's not art, there was no input other than putting chocolate on a bike. Something as simple as that should not be worth any money. A bike MADE of chocolate, that's art because it took skill to do it. And its more interesting because it will obviously be stylized.
 

the Dept of Science

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I think the people complaining about modern poetry probably don't read much modern poetry. Its like people that complain about modern music, I get the impression that they just aren't looking very hard.

There is nothing inherantly wrong with free verse. Well writen free verse (Allen Ginsberg, John Berryman or Bukowski for example) is better than poorly written standard verse and visa versa. Sure, lots of people nowadays think that they are poets because they can write in non-sequiturs, without poetic meter or rhyme. On the other hand, these people generally have no standing whatsoever in the poetic world.

Also, on the subject of art. Traditional art mainly fased out because of the invention of photography. There is little point in capturing a landscape on canvas when it could be done in a fraction of the time on film. Modern art is about intention, meaning that the fact that you could do it doesn't really matter, because you didn't.
I do think modern art gets a bit silly at times, though. Consider the case of Pierre Brasseau, who's art got praised thusly: "Brassau paints with powerful strokes, but also with clear determination. His brush strokes twist with furious fastidiousness. Pierre is an artist who performs with the delicacy of a ballet dancer." The art critic was unaware that Mr Brasseau was a monkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Brassau
 

LiquidGrape

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Quaxar said:
Same with poetry. Feels like some people don't even try anymore. No rhymes, no scheme, it's just prose with a 70% increased use of the Enter-Key.
Allow me to remedy that.
When I think modern poetry, I think Nicole Blackman.
Her work together with Alan "Depeche Mode" Wilder is especially striking.
 

Zarokima

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Douk said:
Books, movies, games, songs all require skill
Tell that to Stephanie Meyer, Michael Bay (shut up, I know movies require a whole team), and Miley Cyrus. Unfortunately I can't think of a counterexample for games, but there's a Jackson Pollock in just about every field.
 

eggy32

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Douk said:
I slightly disagree. I think art should contain both skill and meaning sometimes. If a picture has a meaning there should also be skill put into it. If a picture has no meaning but it was made with skill and it looks nice then I like it too. I don't like pictures with more meaning than skill, unless there are substantial amounts of both.

BTW, I just thought I'd mention something that annoyed me slightly about poetry when I had to study it. While analysing poems in class I was told that the author was expressing opinions about how he adored his father. It made me think he was incredibly cocky to think that the general public cares that much about his opinions about his father or his childhood.
Honestly it baffles me. If I wanted people to know I loved my dad I would tell my friends, those people that actually care about my life. Telling everyone in the whole world and expecting them to care and get paid for it seems incredibly arrogant to me.

All I got from his poem was "I love my father, he is awesome." My response was "Good for you, I love mine too, now go do something worthwhile."

Anybody else feel this way?
 

manythings

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"Talent, like wisdom, is one of the few things that looks bigger the further away it is." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade

Percerption does a lot with art and I've always considered abstract to be bollocks. A girl I knew once told me about how her brother "destroyed" a piece of art that was worth ?500 just over five years ago. It was a piece of bubble wrap sellotaped to a piece of cardboard sitting on the floor. Funny how anyone without being told would interpret it as a piece of garbage and here he is being told to cough up ?500 FFS.
 

Daveman

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Quaxar said:
Douk said:
BUT ANYWAYS onto abstract art. I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy. Oh well abstract art is supposed to mean something to the viewer All art is! A painting of a guy could be boring to you, but look at surreal art. Its like abstract art but with actual skill involved. Some of it is mind bending to be honest.
Exactly my view. Even worse are installations/ready-mades. Yes, this is a fucking urinal. No, this is NOT worth a few thousands. It's worth the price you bought it for you idiot, now go make real art!
Same with poetry. Feels like some people don't even try anymore. No rhymes, no scheme, it's just prose with a 70% increased use of the Enter-Key.

Luk at me
I can write poems
Aren't I great? I don't even
Know wat I does
There.
I love it. The breakdown of the lines and the poor spelling excellently show the breakdown of modern society. The "Aren't I great?" shows the desire to excel but also the self-doubt accompanying every genius. Brilliant.

This is why I wish english literature should have been optional at my school because it brings out the worst of mankind. I fucking hate poetry just as much as I hate Shakespeare, the unsubtle, boring fuckwit.
 

SlowShootinPete

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There's a great section in On Writing where Stephen King talks about this. He gives an example of the type of poem the average English student would write while he was in college:

"i close my eyes
in th dark i see
Rodan Rimbaud
in th dark
i swallow th cloth
of loneliness
crow i am here
raven i am here"

If you were to ask the poet what this poem meant, you'd likely get a look of contempt. Certainly the fact that the poet would likely not have been able to tell you anything about the mechanics of creation would not have been considered important. If pressed, he or she might have said that there were no mechanics, only that seminal spurt of feeling: first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is. And if the resulting poem is sloppy, based on the assumption that such general words as "loneliness" mean the same thing to all of us- hey man, so what, let go of that outdated bullshit and just dig the heaviness.
And then, he compares that to a poem that one student in particular, who would later become his wife (imagine that), wrote:

"A Gradual Canticle For Augustine

The thinnest bear is awakened in the winter
by the sleep-laughter of locusts,
by the dream-blustering of bees,
by the honeyed scent of desert sands
that the wind carries in her womb
into the distant hills, into the houses of Cedar.

The bear has heard a sure promise.
Certain words are edible; they nourish
more than snow heaped upon silver plates
or ice overflowing golden bowls. Chips of ice
from the mouth of a lover are not always better,
Nor a desert dreaming always a mirage.
The rising bear sings a gradual canticle
woven of sand that conquers cities
by a slow cycle. His praise seduces
a passing wind, travelling to the sea
wherein a fish, caught in a careful net,
hears a a bear's song in the cool-scented snow."

It's about Saint Augustine, whose mother was a Christian and father was a pagan. Before converting to Christianity himself, Augustine pursued money and women, and afterward continued to struggle with his sexual impulses. He's the origin of the Libertine's Prayer: "Lord, make me chaste, but not yet." He wrote about man's struggle to give up belief in self in favor of belief in God, and sometimes likened himself to a bear. So there's both technical skill and actual creative thought on display in that poem. And the first poem is just meaningless trash.

So art is not only about beauty and craft, but also on the understanding of the artist about what they're trying to say or show. Or something to that effect.
 

eggy32

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the Dept of Science said:
I think the people complaining about modern poetry probably don't read much modern poetry. Its like people that complain about modern music, I get the impression that they just aren't looking very hard.

There is nothing inherantly wrong with free verse. Well writen free verse (Allen Ginsberg, John Berryman or Bukowski for example) is better than poorly written standard verse and visa versa. Sure, lots of people nowadays think that they are poets because they can write in non-sequiturs, without poetic meter or rhyme. On the other hand, these people generally have no standing whatsoever in the poetic world.
I must admit I'm slightly confused. What is the difference between a poem in free verse and a short story?