Random ramblings about Bullshit Art

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the Dept of Science said:
Douk said:
eggy32 said:
I still don't know the difference between a free verse poem and a short story, if anyone is willing to clarify then please do.
Free verse does not have grammar and punctuation restrictions.

Get someone who doesn't know much english to write a story and it becomes free verse.
Not having strict rules is different from "doing whatever the hell you want". If you did "Get someone who doesn't know much english to write a story", it wouldn't be considered free verse, it would be a badly written story. If you got some pretentious teenager to write free verse poetry, it would be technically be free verse, but it would be very bad free verse, in the same way that the Crazy Frog remix is technically music.

I do get the impression in this argument that you haven't actually taken the time to research the subject. If you were to take the examples given already, you would see there is a lot more to free verse than "prose written on lots of differnt lines".
I've edited the post to explain that, that was the main different if we aren't talking about 'hidden meanings' since both a poem and a story have them. That 'someone who doens't know english' was just a joke, I hope you know that :p

Free Verse poetry really has no restrictions and that is how one tells a really short story from a poem if they had to figure it out themselves.
 

_Cake_

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I HATE poetry, but I lost one of my best friends to that nonsensical pretentious bullshit. I rather people said what they mean flat out.
 

the Dept of Science

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Douk said:
the Dept of Science said:
Douk said:
eggy32 said:
I still don't know the difference between a free verse poem and a short story, if anyone is willing to clarify then please do.
Free verse does not have grammar and punctuation restrictions.

Get someone who doesn't know much english to write a story and it becomes free verse.
Not having strict rules is different from "doing whatever the hell you want". If you did "Get someone who doesn't know much english to write a story", it wouldn't be considered free verse, it would be a badly written story. If you got some pretentious teenager to write free verse poetry, it would be technically be free verse, but it would be very bad free verse, in the same way that the Crazy Frog remix is technically music.

I do get the impression in this argument that you haven't actually taken the time to research the subject. If you were to take the examples given already, you would see there is a lot more to free verse than "prose written on lots of differnt lines".
I've edited the post to explain that, that was the main different if we aren't talking about 'hidden meanings' since both a poem and a story have them. That 'someone who doens't know english' was just a joke, I hope you know that :p

Free Verse poetry really has no restrictions and that is how one tells a really short story from a poem if they had to figure it out themselves.
Ok, its just that considering the title of this thread, I thought I detected a hint of condescention concerning free verse. To describe T.S Eliot's the Wasteland (generally considered the greatest poem of the 20th Century) in the way you did (albeit a joke, apparently), is provably wrong.
 

Quaxar

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eggy32 said:
Quaxar said:
eggy32 said:
Quaxar said:
eggy32 said:
Let your gift run free to the public!
I'd rather not, last time I did this I got a complaint for Public Indecency.

... oh, you mean my artistic gift. Of course! Silly me.
If you're getting arrested for it, it's only because the cops are jealous.

And perhaps you could merge your two gifts into some sort of super art.
Super art... fascinating. I will think about it. Maybe I could even start some sort of "public indecency genre"!

the Dept of Science said:
"Brassau paints with powerful strokes, but also with clear determination. His brush strokes twist with furious fastidiousness. Pierre is an artist who performs with the delicacy of a ballet dancer."
Am I the only one to think that this sounds exactly like the opening line to a soft porn movie?
It didn't quite sound like porn to me but I can clearly see you using your sexual and artistic gifts here to twist something nice into a sexy scene. Do some more.
No!

See? My art was to take your expectations and bash them with two simple letters and an exclamation mark to a pulp of devouring voidness.
Sometimes it's just too easy to be an artist nowadays...
 

TheLaofKazi

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Douk said:
BUT ANYWAYS onto abstract art. I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy. Oh well abstract art is supposed to mean something to the viewer All art is! A painting of a guy could be boring to you, but look at surreal art. Its like abstract art but with actual skill involved. Some of it is mind bending to be honest.
I was in lukewarm agreement with most of your post until this point. I understand where you are coming from with the name being more important then the art to so many people. It's not even the name, it's also a variety of other insignificant things such as popularity.

So you're telling me that this kind of art doesn't take skill to make?




Maybe the skill might not be in the knowledge of physical aspects of people, animals, buildings, environments, ect. But to make good abstract art one must have a keen sense for aesthetics, color, texture, imagery, and must possess the physical skills to produce those things with whatever tools you are using, whether it be paint, computer, pencil, carving, or whatever.

Douk said:
Every time we have a "poetry unit" in school, the shit is indeed quite cash because its so damn easy. Now I may have a knack for it but it seems that it takes no effort to write good poetry.
1) As long as you put some allusions and implications you're set. Just sit back and watch as people look too deep into it and find things you didn't intend.
2) Humorous poetry is harder, since making someone laugh takes more work than making someone go "hmm". I enjoy writing funny/story poetry.
And because people might look too deep into poetry and get a profound message out of something that really isn't means it's easy to write good, deep poetry? The first step to gaining a fine appreciation of art is to keep what others think out of how you view art. If you like it, like it, if you don't, don't. I mean, be open minded to other people's opinions, but don't let them control your enjoyment or art. So sure, there may be some shitty poetry that people overrate, but there's also genuinely brilliant poetry out there that is probably beyond their understanding.
 

Deleted

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I'm going to admit that's some great art. bu that's not really 'abstract' since there's a theme of waves and it generally looks like colors in the wind. I meant more like boxes and dots, something that literally took no skill regardless of its 'intentions'.
 

Bocaj2000

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OP:

Wow... way to minimize art. Saying abstract is unskilled blotches is like saying that The Things They Carried is a Vietnam veteran's ramblings.

EDIT:
You'll grow into it if you're really an artist. Drawing faces is all about knowing anatomy, but being an artist is more than that. It's about creating emotion within the audience.
 

Archemetis

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DividedUnity said:
I dislike minimalist art. I once saw an image that was completely white except for a speck of orange in the middle and people were saying how amazing it was and how it evoked so many emotions in them. The artist was just a lazy ass and they were trying to act sophisticated.
Sounds like whenever I get Artist block if I'm honest...

OT:
For me it's more of a visual artistic approach.
I've got just as little enthusiasm to spare for modern or expressionist artwork as most people, since I was force-fed that shit when I was doing art in College.
I might add, the only thing I learnt from being on that course was how to tack on nonsensical ramblings on my artwork to make it have more than the intended visual interpretation.

Which realistically, being a Cartoonist I didn't see as a necessary skill, and I've since managed to find myself resenting people who have to write a solid page of meaning associated to the ridiculous scribbles they've lazily thrown to a canvas.

(or if we're ragging on our most loathed 'artists' a pissed-soaked mattress, or the other twat that sold a white room with a flickery light, as if a lazy janitor couldn't achieve the same...)

Sod it, here's some pictures to emphasise my point.

As you may notice, it's a bed...
it sold for:
20 million GBP.


It's not a bed, and the meaning behind it is clear and the art took genuine skill
I received:
Absolutely no money/recognition for it.

The difference, She's more than willing to attach whatever horse-shit interpretations she wants to what would have been five minutes and a full-bladders worth of what I can barely strain myself to consider actual 'work'.

Beyond this she also sold a park bench covered in KFC packets... Think long and hard on the meaning if you have the time to forcefully give yourself a brain haemorrhage.

Whereas I'm not, and prefer my art to show its own fucking meaning.

I think my point is made.

Sure, it wasn't the best example of my work, but in an ideal world where rich art enthusiasts have common sense I'd be a fucking billionaire by now.

(Hah-- Like fuck...)
 

stiffy

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There's a movie called "My kid could paint that", that discusses a lot of what you were going into about "modern art".

A lot of people don't realize that an artist like Picasso could paint like Leonardo Da Vinci AT AGE 13!!!! He was a prodigy and his craft evolved throughout his life.

There is something to be said for the old adage, "You have to know the rules to break them"
 

drisky

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Its actually not that easy, its bullshit but its not easy. When had to do abstract art in school it was painfully dull, stupid and time consuming. We were made to draw tangled up pieces of tape and have it "show shape", no matter what why I did it my teacher kept saying it wasn't right. There are still specific rules to abstract art for it to be considered "good". For example this sucks

but this is considered good
 

feather240

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I like some abstract art.



I think the main difference is that abstract is meant to create moods instead of settings, and doesn't it do a good job with it?
 

oktalist

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Douk said:
Now I may have a knack for it but it seems that it takes no effort to write good poetry.
Your definition of good poetry may differ from mine. Although effort is not a necessary property of it.

With all forms of art, the name seems to be more important than the work. A painting done by a famous french guy would be loved more than a painting done by a corporate guy in a suit who acts business like. This isn't relevant in a school setting, but it helps to understand what it takes to not make good art, but to make your art liked.
Quality of art is not really about how many people like it.

Anyways on topic, the business of art seems to be the most dangerous thing to invest in. The most important skill is marketing and your image, then your artistic skill (if any) follows.
True art tends to get ruined when business interests get involved. Best to ignore that kind of thing.

As an aside, it would be interesting to hear what sort of music you like, whether it is bands with big marketing teams behind them, or the more independent outfits.

I personally think it does not take skill to make abstract art. I'm not saying its ugly or not art, I'm just saying its easy.
For me, the quality of a piece of art has fuck all to do with how much skill it took to make.

99% of art is shit. This is because 99% of everything is shit.

99% of art critics are idiots. This is because 99% of all people are idiots.

Trying to teach any kind of art appreciation in the context of school is doomed to failure. So take what you learn there with a pinch of salt.

My favourite poem is Lessness by Samuel Beckett. It's something like twenty pages long, and constructed by writing loads of nonsense sentences and randomly choosing what order to put them in by pulling them out of a hat. For the first few pages I was like WTF is the point of this, but I kept reading and it was like, wow this is wonderful, such pleasing rhythm.

My favourite performace piece was probably Gustav Metzger's Acid action painting, although I didn't witness it myself. "Three nylon canvases coloured white, black and red are arranged behind each other, in this order. Acid is painted, flung and sprayed onto the nylon which corrodes [destroying the nylon] at point of contact within 15 seconds."

Below is a picture generated by a computer program I wrote. When I wrote it I had no idea how it would turn out; I discovered it by accident while developing a method for generating procedural terrains. The program code would fit on a postcard or napkin. There is no Photoshop or anything like that involved, just a random number generator, a very simple mathematical procedure, and directly setting pixel values.


For me it is not about praising the artist but praising the art itself. The artist is just the messenger, the vessel that the art uses to gain corporeal form. To get caught up on how much skill a piece of art took to make, is to miss the point completely.

And BTW, my favourite painting is Picasso's Guernica. So I don't just like "modern art" (although it is abstract, it is not in the same league as the works I listed above that make heavy use of random processes).

I would rather awe at something that took hours and required mastery of tools than to praise someone for something I could have done.
If you still want to see some modern art that you could not have done yourself, check out Wassily Kandinsky.

EDIT: Also, I thought the same way as you about modern art when I was younger.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Blueruler182 said:
I'm not even going to bother reading it because the answer is always the same in this case.

Art is subjective.
Of course.

Good art? Less so.

A work of art is an execution of an idea. If the idea is truly transcendent, the execution can be minimal - as in the case of a very clever modern or abstract piece. If the execution is extremely intensive, the idea can be relatively simple - as in the case of an intricate and skillfully crafted piece.

When people feel compelled to defend something as art, we're typically dealing with a mediocre idea executed simply. Yes, it's technically art - but it's crap. Half the population could have thought of it, and 99% of us could execute it. It shouldn't be hanging in a gallery or a museum.
 

TheLaofKazi

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Douk said:
I'm going to admit that's some great art. bu that's not really 'abstract' since there's a theme of waves and it generally looks like colors in the wind. I meant more like boxes and dots, something that literally took no skill regardless of its 'intentions'.
I'm pretty those are abstract. Although there may be a theme, it's vague and well... abstract. The theme is not directly telling you "colors in the wind," it's something that you interpreted. Other people might think it looks like something else.

Like this?




I don't know, I think the aesthetics are lovely.

I think this article explains it pretty well:

http://www.artmovements.co.uk/minimalism.htm