Random thourght about portrayal of women in media..

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

snip

Wouldn't the best idea for creating more "types" of women in games and media be to have actually women create them? Because at the moment most game designers and people in media are men. If more women jumped on board, then things wouldn't be so bland.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

The fact is already known that males in general have a far variety of psychologies than females.

Case in point:
> The number of male brilliant minds in the world outnumber female brilliant minds by a noticeable amount.
BUT
> Majority of the world's most lunatics/idiots are also males. Going by prison populations males vastly outnumber females, males are more likely to commit a crime and do stupid/reckless shit.
.

Alternate theory based on the data presented.

In a traditionally male dominated society (which the west definitely has been at least until the 60s/70s and arguably still is today) women are not afforded as many opportunities for learning. Girls from an early age are pushed into gender stereotypical play roles, high school courses and then university courses. Any woman wanting to go into Engineering/Science/Mathematics will face opposition, ridicule and the glass ceiling. That 15% pay gap between women and men in the same position (in the UK) still exists.

So, putting all the above together, the following conclusion could be drawn:

Male children who display particular aptitude for science, mathematics, engineering or other subejcts traditionally considered the field of 'geniuses' will receive support, special tuition, and be encouraged to do their level best in the field.

female children who display similar aptitude will be given no special treatment, and will be ridiculed and mocked by their peers, if not outright hindered by their teachers as well.

So naturally we 'have more male geniuses' because women are being shunted into professions traditionally for women. And that's just in the west, completely ignoring the way that other developed nations still treat women. You think a genuinely exceptional woman in, say, China, is going to be as accepted as a male?

 

[maninahat]

Archetypes. You expect the hero of an action story to be masculine. Just glance at Hollywood. Games are no different. How many Die Hards/James Bonds/Rambo's have you seen starring a female lead?

What's more interesting, I think, is the evolution of the female "companion" to the hero in both Hollywood and videogames. These have gone from 'damsel in distress' to 'semi-competent, but still in distress' to 'very competent'.

These days, female characters end up being the most extreme opposite of a damsel in distress. Writers are afraid of creating a weak woman with any negative or feminine qualities, so they end up creating bland, hyper-aggressive, !Strong Female Characters! instead. It's a marginal improvement, I guess, but it kind of misses the point about giving women diverse, good characters.

 

[maninahat]

snip

Wouldn't the best idea for creating more "types" of women in games and media be to have actually women create them? Because at the moment most game designers and people in media are men. If more women jumped on board, then things wouldn't be so bland.

Sadly, that's not as easy as it looks. Female designers are in shorter supply. It isn't a job women tend to go into in the first place, partly because (I suspect), they're encouraged not to from an early age. Designing comes under "technical", and most girls just aren't brought up to think about such things. It's a similar reason for why men tend not to see "housewife" as a plausible career path - even in an age where that is more than possible.

 

[Tippy]

You're not connecting any dots, you're just making claims without evidence. Your idea has nothing to back it, nowhere has personality been linked to criminality or brilliance at all. Hell, you haven't even shown that there are more male geniuses than female ones.

The above phenomenon that you haven't shown is true? The criminal one I know, the genius one you've cited nothing for it. And nothing about it has anything to do with a variety of personalities.

I'm wondering if you have the absurd notion that your opinion is somehow worth something unless someone can provide something to answer your stupid 'phenomenon' better. If so then you're in good company with people who say anything that has yet to be explained was done by God, aliens or Barack Obama.

Well, the below person seems to share my belief that the number of male geniuses outnumber females, and they've even given a nice description of the reasoning behind it (unlike you). So now your options are:
a) Continue living in a fantasy world where the number of female brilliant minds equal male brilliant minds
b) Quickly change tact and agree that some factor (whether it be social/cultural/psychological/whatver) has led to males outnumbering females in the genius department.
c) Bail

Alternate theory based on the data presented.

In a traditionally male dominated society (which the west definitely has been at least until the 60s/70s and arguably still is today) women are not afforded as many opportunities for learning. Girls from an early age are pushed into gender stereotypical play roles, high school courses and then university courses. Any woman wanting to go into Engineering/Science/Mathematics will face opposition, ridicule and the glass ceiling. That 15% pay gap between women and men in the same position (in the UK) still exists.

So, putting all the above together, the following conclusion could be drawn:

Male children who display particular aptitude for science, mathematics, engineering or other subejcts traditionally considered the field of 'geniuses' will receive support, special tuition, and be encouraged to do their level best in the field.

female children who display similar aptitude will be given no special treatment, and will be ridiculed and mocked by their peers, if not outright hindered by their teachers as well.

So naturally we 'have more male geniuses' because women are being shunted into professions traditionally for women. And that's just in the west, completely ignoring the way that other developed nations still treat women. You think a genuinely exceptional woman in, say, China, is going to be as accepted as a male?

You're totally right about places like China where countless parents still hold the notion of being "unlucky" if left with a baby girl. It's very sad, but that part of the world still faces the harsh reality of men being more likely to help the family survive than females.

However I don't think you can prove that your theory still holds true in first-world countries. I thought the pay-gap thing was finally discovered to be an apples-to-oranges comparision, that the 15% was caused by women in general valuing family/relationships more than ambitions to earn? Or have they done a genuine apples-to-apples comparision in the UK where a male and female doing exactly the same job at exactly the same capacity/proficiency still have a 15% pay gap? That would be really alarming :O

Also, your alternate theory is missing a really important chunk: what about the crime rates and prision population? Did society encourage males to commit theft/rape/murder and put themselves behind bars? How would you explain it?

We're still on the topic of varied personalities/roles, so I'm genuinely curious. We always hear about that guy who spent 10 years in prision and finally emerged a new man, to be re-united with his family. Or about his daring and cunning escape. But we rarely see stories about women, despite them going through similar experiences (just on a drastically lesser scale than males). It would explain why the media portrays males in more varied personalities/roles, but not why so many men are still ending up behind bars vastly more than women.

 

[Tippy]

You're not connecting any dots, you're just making claims without evidence. Your idea has nothing to back it, nowhere has personality been linked to criminality or brilliance at all. Hell, you haven't even shown that there are more male geniuses than female ones.

The above phenomenon that you haven't shown is true? The criminal one I know, the genius one you've cited nothing for it. And nothing about it has anything to do with a variety of personalities.

I'm wondering if you have the absurd notion that your opinion is somehow worth something unless someone can provide something to answer your stupid 'phenomenon' better. If so then you're in good company with people who say anything that has yet to be explained was done by God, aliens or Barack Obama.

Well, the below person seems to share my belief that the number of male geniuses outnumber females, and they've even given a nice description of the reasoning behind it (unlike you). So now your 2 options are:
a) Continue living in a fantasy world where the number of female brilliant minds equal male brilliant minds
b) Quickly change tact and agree that some factor (whether it be social/cultural/psychological/whatver) has led to males outnumbering females in the genius department.
c) Bail

Are you joking? Someone agrees with you is your evidence? I mean I guess I can see how you get your ideas if that's the sort of logic you use, but it's not valid logic.

Plus a stupid strawman about me saying there's an equal amount? Because I never said there was, I was questioning your claim. Because you know, you don't just believe whatever someone says. Particularly someone who has shown themselves to be pretty dishonest.

I guess you chose to bail then, fair enough >_<

 

[Vault101]

snip.

thats not what I'm talking about

I'm saying that [i/]people[/i] in this case women are more diverse than media would suggest...

 

[Tippy]

snip.

thats not what I'm talking about

I'm saying that [i/]people[/i] in this case women are more diverse than media would suggest...

Totally, they are definitely more diverse than what the media suggests.

And honestly I can't really give a straight answer as to why that is, I don't think anybody can. So instead I was just trying to explore one of the countless factors behind why we're seeing the phenomenon. We can only take tiny pokes at very large bubbles when it comes to topics like these

I didn't choose to bail, I'm saying that someone agreeing with you isn't evidence to support you. But hey, you clearly don't have much integrity and just want to get out of admitting you have no evidence for your beliefs.

Also you lied about me, but is there anything addressing that? Nope. Seems you've bailed.

Alright, jeeez, here you go: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1274952/Men-ARE-brainy-women-says-scientist-Professor-Richard-Lynn.html

Some more options for you:
a) Claim the source is horribly sexist and biased
b) Claim it's just 1 source and means absolutely nothing
c) Claim the statistics presented in that article are all flawed/lies
d) Bail

I guess you chose to bail then, fair enough >_<

CONGRATULATIONS! you have levelled up from "kindergarten" to "grade 1" level arguing

you get a gold star!

Thanks, I try ^_^

 

[Vault101]

I guess you chose to bail then, fair enough >_<

CONGRATULATIONS! you have levelled up from "kindergarten" to "grade 1" level arguing

you get a gold star!

[img/]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4gght71IH1r15r4k.jpg[/img]

 

[Vault101]

oh, vault101! why do you want always to see the internet burst into flames?

just blame the 30's, 40's and 50's and the catholic church.

and while you are at it, obama care.

hey, I tried to make this as less flamey as possible....

 

[Ragsnstitches]

snip.

thats not what I'm talking about

I'm saying that [i/]people[/i] in this case women are more diverse than media would suggest...

Totally, they are definitely more diverse than what the media suggests.

And honestly I can't really give a straight answer as to why that is, I don't think anybody can. So instead I was just trying to explore one of the countless factors behind why we're seeing the phenomenon. We can only take tiny pokes at very large bubbles when it comes to topics like these

I didn't choose to bail, I'm saying that someone agreeing with you isn't evidence to support you. But hey, you clearly don't have much integrity and just want to get out of admitting you have no evidence for your beliefs.

Also you lied about me, but is there anything addressing that? Nope. Seems you've bailed.

Alright, jeeez, here you go: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1274952/Men-ARE-brainy-women-says-scientist-Professor-Richard-Lynn.html

Some more options for you:
a) Claim the source is horribly sexist and biased
b) Claim it's just 1 source and means absolutely nothing
c) Claim the statistics presented in that article are all flawed/lies
d) Bail

I guess you chose to bail then, fair enough >_<

CONGRATULATIONS! you have levelled up from "kindergarten" to "grade 1" level arguing

you get a gold star!

Thanks, I try ^_^

I choose option E: I can't believe you cited the Daily Mail and expect a reasonable discussion from here on.

Seriously? The Daily Mail... do you really think that's a reputable source?

 

[Spearmaster]

I admit I laughed because she was funny as hell...but when I think about it (and read in an article) they really draw attention to the fact that she is "fat" short and "butch"...now of coarse its a comedy, thats to be expected, but when you think about it the reason they point and laugh seems like the Idea that a women is like this rather than the image hollywood has shown us is so ludacrous that its hilarious...

..another way of looking at it is that if a man is butch, or less butch, or short, or funny or serious, or is the subject of physical humour, or is smart, or a physisist, or a mechanical genious, or a violent badass......it just is

Are you just saying it seems they stand out more based on the majority of female roles in media? That men are more varied in personality and traits than women(edit)in media?

 

[Evil Smurf]

I don't need women objectified in media, be sexy if you want, but you don't need to impress me with your massive boobs. I have porn for that.

 

[Tippy]

I choose option E: I can't believe you cited the Daily Mail and expect a reasonable discussion from here on.

Seriously? The Daily Mail... do you really think that's a reputable source?

Ah damn, I should've included option e). Will keep it in mind the next time I'm told to cite sources.

Well, atleast it was a link to an article that attempted to say something >_<

Hell of a lot more than the meme images and youtube reaction videos we've been seeing in this thread so far, right?

 

[MixmasterInTheSky]

I don't see how this is something specific to female characters. Equally often you have male protagonists that are just hollow archetypes