RANT: Weapons on your back

Recommended Videos

Christian Lerche

New member
Jun 22, 2010
101
0
0
DISCLAIMER: I like the games I'm about to bash.

Okay, so, this is a subject that i've personally feel royally pissed about and should be adressed with child-like anger and irritation, and lets get one thing straight from the get-go:
Weapons = awesome. Weapons that fit in a believable way, like assasins creed and mass effect, are the best.

And then there's The Witcher, Dragon Age, WoW (and every other mmorpg in the world), that has floating weapons that inexplicably hovers one to two centimeters from your back.

WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.

Now, talking as a LARPer, I've tried to have weapons on my back. And that shit does not work, you cannot draw a sword that is longer than your own arms length. It's impratical, it's stupid, and you look like an ass drawing it. The only reason why, is because it looks cool.
I have however, accepted mass effects and gears of wars version, since they're, magnets or something like that, but medevial times did not use magnets.

This has to stop, and I might sound a bit annoying, but this REALLY has to stop. It looks like you're trying to take two meter long rope from your undergarments from your back for gods sake!
We had scabbards in our belts for a reason, quick to draw, and easy to manage.
It breaks immersion when EVERY SINGLE character in the game have weapons on their back as if they're Guts from Berserk (anime / manga). And Guts has a hook and a scabbard that like it's easy to draw out, it's not realistic but I can deal with it.

I did, once, put magnet inside my foam swords, and they stuck nicely on my plate armour, but when you run around, they get loose, and fall off easily. So, I made a scabbard on my back that had a close function like a purse, with magnets. It still does not work, the belt that held the scabbard fell out quicker than you could say: "AMBUSH!"

It looks unreal, and it should be avoided. When you make a dark fantasy game, or any game for that matter that has visible weapons on the characters, at least make it believable.
 

loc978

New member
Sep 18, 2010
4,900
0
0
If you've had trouble drawing from your back, you're using the wrong type of scabbard. One thing about back scabbards- easy to draw, difficult to put away.


I agree about gaming implementation, though.
 

similar.squirrel

New member
Mar 28, 2009
6,021
0
0
Makes sense from a design perspective. It's nice to see what you're packing, so to speak. I'd be more concerned about games that actually purport to be realistic, like GTA IV and its magically-materialising heavy ordnance.
 

Jordi

New member
Jun 6, 2009
812
0
0
I have to say that I don't really care, but I think you have a point.

However, it seems to me that carrying stuff on your back is far more comfortable than having a large scabbard dangling beside your leg, especially when it holds a heavy weapon. Carrying stuff on your back is simply easier. Also, weapons exist that are not as long as your arm (or can otherwise be pulled out fairly easily), and I don't see a reason why those can't be on your back.

For long swords, it seems to me that it is a trade off between comfortable walking/running and being able to pull it out fast. I think that in real life you would probably spend a lot more time walking around, than you do fighting, so unless the situation really really calls for it, it seems plausible to carry heavy stuff like swords on your back.
 

luckycharms8282

New member
Mar 28, 2009
540
0
0
I recall, not specifically, where your gun/weapon was floating on your back in many games. I also know in cod games, your secondary (no matter what it is) is always on your back. This can be kind of silly when a big ass 44 magnum is just chilling on some guys back, with no explanation offered as to how it stays on there.
 

Tomster595

New member
Aug 1, 2009
649
0
0
Fucking magnets....

But you do have a point. I just don't think it's THAT big of a deal.
 

AugustFall

New member
May 5, 2009
1,110
0
0
When in doubt, magic.


Seriously though you basically told us why. It's cool, cool as hell in fact and the majority of people simply see it that way and have no intention of trying it themselves probably safe in the knowledge that even if it was possible they are not swordsmen and would simply do it wrong.

Also if there wasn't anything on their back then we would see their back for the entire game. BOOOOoooooring.
 

Sarpedon

New member
Feb 9, 2011
429
0
0
I find myself agreeing whole-heartedly. It wouldn't be that damned difficult for the developers to add a strap or some such device to back-sheathed weapons, and an animation to compensate for such a thing. Seeing my weapon loyally hovering behind me apparently of its own volition takes away some points from immersion.

Don't get me wrong here, though, I'd much rather see my weapon carried along through no obvious means (Such as in Halo 3 or Oblivion) rather than watch it simply disappear inexplicably into my pocket (Halo 2 or Morrowind), and it's by no means a weighty complain - I absolutely love all these games either way.
 

Christian Lerche

New member
Jun 22, 2010
101
0
0
OptimisticPessimist said:
Couldn't agree more. Thing is, it's a game. It doesn't HAVE to make sense.
It has to make sense within its' own world. Like, Dragon Age, how come everyone has weapons that float? Is it magic? Is it, genetic or something? It's totally unexplained, and it's even worse since they had a bigger budget in the second game, which means they could've made it, but didn't When you put some things in, you have to consider, that if this is a "real" fantasy world, and if it has a very well thought out plot or storyline, at least make it less obvious that we're in a game. If you can't have them look believable, at least let them spawn like Half-Life so it doesn't cover the nice armor.
Thanks for agreeing by the way :)

@loc798 Nice pic, but I still insist it's more practical to have your weapon in a sheath by the waist, you have to consider that you're very less mobile with the sword equipped and that it's not protected by rain.
 

gigastar

Insert one-liner here.
Sep 13, 2010
4,419
0
0
To quote Unskippable,
"Putting Velcro on your sword is an old adventurer's trick."
"Clever!"


I dont usually care, because every time i see this i think, 'I must be playing something either from or inspired by a Capcom game.'
 

xitel

Assume That I Hate You.
Aug 13, 2008
4,618
0
0
I'd like to point out, first and foremost, your justification for Mass Effect's and Gears of War's reasons (i.e. "magnets") kind of applies for the other games you mentioned. In other words, "magic" instead of "magnets."

As for a more realistic reason, it's an aesthetic choice. The designers spend a lot of time making pretty things, they want to show those pretty things to the gamer. But if you only ever have the sword drawn in combat, at which point it's moving around and is inside enemies a majority of the time, then it sits in an ugly brown scabbard for the rest of the time. And I don't know about you, but as far as my experience goes, you can't really make a brown scabbard pretty, no matter how hard you try.

As for why it's on the back? Two reasons. Let's use Dragon Age 2 as an example (first one that came to mind). First reason: Greatswords and the like would not fit on your hip. They're as tall as your character is. Regardless of the practicality of actually USING a sword like that, if they put it on the hip, the model would pass through the floor unless your character spends the entire time levitating. Why do they use this for all the equipment, then, if only greatswords and axes and whatnot would pass through the floor? Because having all the models go to the same place on the character makes the programming easier than having a separate place for each weapon type. It also make it easier to animate, because no matter what weapon you're using, you can use the same animation to draw and return it. Second reason is, again, aesthetics. What part of the model do you spend most of the game looking at? The back. Where, if they wanted to show off the weapon models the most, would you put the weapon, in that case? Again, the back. After all, not many people spend a majority of the game staring at their player character's hip.

All in all, yes, I understand where you're coming from, but it honestly makes sense, given the context. That, and like I said, it's MAGIC! *jazz hands*
 

Christian Lerche

New member
Jun 22, 2010
101
0
0
Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
It matters why? If the game is good, one small detail like that isn't going to drag it down. Hell, even if the game is bad, that's nothing to complain about.

Go take a look at the sword drawing animation for The Witcher. It's retarded as hell. When he puts it away, he grabs the blade and slides it onto his back.

Does it make sense? No.

Does it have to? No.

Realism has little place in games unless simulation is the goal. Quit bitching.
Like I said, it has to make sense within it's own world- it breaks immersion, and fills a big deal of the screen. If you play the witcher, you have, give or take, 65 hours of a watching a steel sword floating around and a silver sword as its' partner. Of course it's not a big deal, but if they keep ignoring it, we might aswell have our whole inventory packed like a balloon or something ridicules. Not to mention wows weapons, if you're regular, you've probably watched about 13 days of floating weapons.

I ***** where I please, and I please where I *****.
 

Harry Mason

New member
Mar 7, 2011
617
0
0
This filled me with frothing nerd rage in the Dragon Age games (which I love) and in many others as well. The LEAST they could do is try to animate some kind of magical strap that materializes when the weapon is put away. Even that would be preferable to the magic, floating voodoo weapon approach.

I'm usually pretty impressed when developers have realistic weapon storage. The remake of Alone in the Dark was dreadful, but the way you physically looked into your trench coat to access your inventory was really awesome.

I almost NEVER ***** about realism, but I'm in 100% agreement with this sentiment.

Captcha sez: "expel University."
No joke. Who programs these things?
 

loc978

New member
Sep 18, 2010
4,900
0
0
Christian Lerche said:
@loc798 Nice pic, but I still insist it's more practical to have your weapon in a sheath by the waist, you have to consider that you're very less mobile with the sword equipped and that it's not protected by rain.
oh, it's more practical and faster with a sword short enough not to drag on the ground, certainly... but with a hand-and-a-halfer on up, the back tends to be a more practical place for it. You actually lose a LOT more mobility having a sword waggling around by your legs hanging from a double-wrap belt than you do from one strapped tightly to your back.
As for rain and such... it won't hurt your sword in the short term to be wet, as long as you clean it regularly. Same as being in leather. Leave a real, tempered carbon steel sword in a leather scabbard for a week or so, and you'll need to be cleaning some rust off. Real steel is a different ballgame from display swords or foam.
before my mistake:


after my mistake:


after a week of rust removal:

Out of curiosity, are your LARP weapons foam-wrapped PVC, or harder foam molded into sword-shapes? I've had the former, but not the latter.
 

baddude1337

Taffer
Jun 9, 2010
1,856
0
0
The same thing gets me with firearms. No body seems to use slings in games, they just chuck the gun behind themselves and it sticks to them, it looks kinda silly.
 

spartan231490

New member
Jan 14, 2010
5,186
0
0
Christian Lerche said:
DISCLAIMER: I like the games I'm about to bash.

Okay, so, this is a subject that i've personally feel royally pissed about and should be adressed with child-like anger and irritation, and lets get one thing straight from the get-go:
Weapons = awesome. Weapons that fit in a believable way, like assasins creed and mass effect, are the best.

And then there's The Witcher, Dragon Age, WoW (and every other mmorpg in the world), that has floating weapons that inexplicably hovers one to two centimeters from your back.

WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.

Now, talking as a LARPer, I've tried to have weapons on my back. And that shit does not work, you cannot draw a sword that is longer than your own arms length. It's impratical, it's stupid, and you look like an ass drawing it. The only reason why, is because it looks cool.
I have however, accepted mass effects and gears of wars version, since they're, magnets or something like that, but medevial times did not use magnets.

This has to stop, and I might sound a bit annoying, but this REALLY has to stop. It looks like you're trying to take two meter long rope from your undergarments from your back for gods sake!
We had scabbards in our belts for a reason, quick to draw, and easy to manage.
It breaks immersion when EVERY SINGLE character in the game have weapons on their back as if they're Guts from Berserk (anime / manga). And Guts has a hook and a scabbard that like it's easy to draw out, it's not realistic but I can deal with it.

I did, once, put magnet inside my foam swords, and they stuck nicely on my plate armour, but when you run around, they get loose, and fall off easily. So, I made a scabbard on my back that had a close function like a purse, with magnets. It still does not work, the belt that held the scabbard fell out quicker than you could say: "AMBUSH!"

It looks unreal, and it should be avoided. When you make a dark fantasy game, or any game for that matter that has visible weapons on the characters, at least make it believable.
The guy in the second post is part right, in my opinion. Scabbards like that work alright but they look like shit and they're awkward as hell, in my opinion. The only real reason to use one is when your sword is a great-sword that is too long to sheath at the waist because it will drag on the ground.
 

Christian Lerche

New member
Jun 22, 2010
101
0
0
xitel said:
I'd like to point out, first and foremost, your justification for Mass Effect's and Gears of War's reasons (i.e. "magnets") kind of applies for the other games you mentioned. In other words, "magic" instead of "magnets."

As for a more realistic reason, it's an aesthetic choice. The designers spend a lot of time making pretty things, they want to show those pretty things to the gamer. But if you only ever have the sword drawn in combat, at which point it's moving around and is inside enemies a majority of the time, then it sits in an ugly brown scabbard for the rest of the time. And I don't know about you, but as far as my experience goes, you can't really make a brown scabbard pretty, no matter how hard you try.

As for why it's on the back? Two reasons. Let's use Dragon Age 2 as an example (first one that came to mind). First reason: Greatswords and the like would not fit on your hip. They're as tall as your character is. Regardless of the practicality of actually USING a sword like that, if they put it on the hip, the model would pass through the floor unless your character spends the entire time levitating. Why do they use this for all the equipment, then, if only greatswords and axes and whatnot would pass through the floor? Because having all the models go to the same place on the character makes the programming easier than having a separate place for each weapon type. It also make it easier to animate, because no matter what weapon you're using, you can use the same animation to draw and return it. Second reason is, again, aesthetics. What part of the model do you spend most of the game looking at? The back. Where, if they wanted to show off the weapon models the most, would you put the weapon, in that case? Again, the back. After all, not many people spend a majority of the game staring at their player character's hip.

All in all, yes, I understand where you're coming from, but it honestly makes sense, given the context. That, and like I said, it's MAGIC! *jazz hands*
"A wizard did it" is not a proper excuse. Mass effect LOOKS like magnets and that it has a place, Dragon age looks like BS, as if they have nowhere else to put them. If it's magic, how come there are no sparkles since they want it pretty? It's just there for no reason. Plus, if you use a two handed sword, like I refereed to Berserk, you can 'hook' it on your back. I think it's wasted potential and lazyness, call it "aesthetic choice" if you want, but it would be nice if they put a bit of believability in the game.