RANT: Weapons on your back

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MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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OptimisticPessimist said:
Couldn't agree more. Thing is, it's a game. It doesn't HAVE to make sense.
What I was thinking. It's a sword/staff/whatever. I couldn't really care if it actually looked like it was attached to my characters back or not. As long as it gets the killing done, that's all I need. Hell, if the character wants to pull a huge mallet out of their tiny bag and start swinging it around, I don't care. It's a game after all.

Let's not get so uptight over this. There are much more pertinent matters to get worried about, even in the "things in games that annoy me but are of no real consequence to the gameplay" category.
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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spartan231490 said:
Christian Lerche said:
Bitchin'!
The guy in the second post is part right, in my opinion. Scabbards like that work alright but they look like shit and they're awkward as hell, in my opinion. The only real reason to use one is when your sword is a great-sword that is too long to sheath at the waist because it will drag on the ground.
Yeah, I get that. Like I mentioned, you can totally hook it on your back like Berserk did it. Halbards and spears however, can not look like you're wearing it. I have to wield the thing around in your hands at all time when you're goofing around in place you might get attacked.
 

spartan231490

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Christian Lerche said:
spartan231490 said:
Christian Lerche said:
Bitchin'!
The guy in the second post is part right, in my opinion. Scabbards like that work alright but they look like shit and they're awkward as hell, in my opinion. The only real reason to use one is when your sword is a great-sword that is too long to sheath at the waist because it will drag on the ground.
Yeah, I get that. Like I mentioned, you can totally hook it on your back like Berserk did it. Halbards and spears however, can not look like you're wearing it. I have to wield the thing around in your hands at all time when you're goofing around in place you might get attacked.
Yeah, short spears do ok with a giant modified quiver, but for long pole-weapons you're pretty much stuck with an ugly walking stick.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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Christian Lerche said:
xitel said:
I'd like to point out, first and foremost, your justification for Mass Effect's and Gears of War's reasons (i.e. "magnets") kind of applies for the other games you mentioned. In other words, "magic" instead of "magnets."

As for a more realistic reason, it's an aesthetic choice. The designers spend a lot of time making pretty things, they want to show those pretty things to the gamer. But if you only ever have the sword drawn in combat, at which point it's moving around and is inside enemies a majority of the time, then it sits in an ugly brown scabbard for the rest of the time. And I don't know about you, but as far as my experience goes, you can't really make a brown scabbard pretty, no matter how hard you try.

As for why it's on the back? Two reasons. Let's use Dragon Age 2 as an example (first one that came to mind). First reason: Greatswords and the like would not fit on your hip. They're as tall as your character is. Regardless of the practicality of actually USING a sword like that, if they put it on the hip, the model would pass through the floor unless your character spends the entire time levitating. Why do they use this for all the equipment, then, if only greatswords and axes and whatnot would pass through the floor? Because having all the models go to the same place on the character makes the programming easier than having a separate place for each weapon type. It also make it easier to animate, because no matter what weapon you're using, you can use the same animation to draw and return it. Second reason is, again, aesthetics. What part of the model do you spend most of the game looking at? The back. Where, if they wanted to show off the weapon models the most, would you put the weapon, in that case? Again, the back. After all, not many people spend a majority of the game staring at their player character's hip.

All in all, yes, I understand where you're coming from, but it honestly makes sense, given the context. That, and like I said, it's MAGIC! *jazz hands*
"A wizard did it" is not a proper excuse. Mass effect LOOKS like magnets and that it has a place,
Dragon age looks like BS, as if they have nowhere else to put them. If it's magic, how come there are no sparkles since they want it pretty? It's just there for no reason. Plus, if you use a two handed sword, like I refereed to Berserk, you can 'hook' it on your back. I think it's wasted potential and lazyness, call it "aesthetic choice" if you want, but it would be nice if they put a bit of believability in the game.
In Dragon Age's defense, realistically putting a two-hander away into a back scabbard would be a long, boring animation. Even a very talented, experienced warrior would take a good ten seconds of slightly awkward bending and probing. Still, even an unbelievably accurate single motion from the hero character would be much better than the magical magnet effect they used.
 

kittii-chan 300

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Feb 27, 2011
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you said MMO's? they use magc to keep their swod attached!and its not as bad as pulling a sword out of nowhere like in lots of games. you have plate mail???
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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MarsProbe said:
OptimisticPessimist said:
Couldn't agree more. Thing is, it's a game. It doesn't HAVE to make sense.
What I was thinking. It's a sword/staff/whatever. I couldn't really care if it actually looked like it was attached to my characters back or not. As long as it gets the killing done, that's all I need. Hell, if the character wants to pull a huge mallet out of their tiny bag and start swinging it around, I don't care. It's a game after all.

Let's not get so uptight over this. There are much more pertinent matters to get worried about, even in the "things in games that annoy me but are of no real consequence to the gameplay" category.
There is a difference for me when I play a roleplaying game. In another genre, I wouldn't give a rats ass, but I immerse myself in being the character I play. I am not myself, I am Geralt of Rivia. I slay monsters. I try to live and breathe in Vizima by the medium that's my PC. And then theres floaty weapons. Why are they there? Why do they only come out when I draw them? (and so on and so fourth). And it's no like I want my inventory to a real time bag you can get out, that's silly, but when it is in my face for the whole duration, that makes me bitter.
 

xitel

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Aug 13, 2008
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Christian Lerche said:
"A wizard did it" is not a proper excuse. Mass effect LOOKS like magnets and that it has a place, Dragon age looks like BS, as if they have nowhere else to put them. If it's magic, how come there are no sparkles since they want it pretty? It's just there for no reason. Plus, if you use a two handed sword, like I refereed to Berserk, you can 'hook' it on your back. I think it's wasted potential and lazyness, call it "aesthetic choice" if you want, but it would be nice if they put a bit of believability in the game.
Oh, I know it's not a proper excuse, but it's an understandable one. As for putting sparkles on it, it would be be way too distracting to have a constant effect on it at all times when it's sheathed. Even the elemental weapon effects in Dragon Age disappears when you're not in combat. And yes, they do use a hook in Berserk, but Berserk, from what I remember, doesn't have the same prevalence of magic. Really though, it just comes down to the aesthetic and stylistic choices the designers made. And let's be honest, it's better than what other games do by just having the weapons disappear when not in use.
 

DarkSoldier84

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Jul 8, 2010
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OptimisticPessimist said:
Couldn't agree more. Thing is, it's a game. It doesn't HAVE to make sense.
The problem I have with your statement is that these games are at least pretending to be realistic. When it comes to fiction, I live by the statement "Unless magic or sufficiently-advanced technology exists, things should obey real-world physical laws." There is no reason why weapons in Dragon Age should float a couple inches off people's backs with no visible means of support except for technical reasons that only the games' programmers can answer.
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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loc978 said:
Christian Lerche said:
@loc798 Nice pic, but I still insist it's more practical to have your weapon in a sheath by the waist, you have to consider that you're very less mobile with the sword equipped and that it's not protected by rain.
oh, it's more practical and faster with a sword short enough not to drag on the ground, certainly... but with a hand-and-a-halfer on up, the back tends to be a more practical place for it. You actually lose a LOT more mobility having a sword waggling around by your legs hanging from a double-wrap belt than you do from one strapped tightly to your back.
As for rain and such... it won't hurt your sword in the short term to be wet, as long as you clean it regularly. Same as being in leather. Leave a real, tempered carbon steel sword in a leather scabbard for a week or so, and you'll need to be cleaning some rust off. Real steel is a different ballgame from display swords or foam.
before my mistake:


after my mistake:


after a week of rust removal:

Out of curiosity, are your LARP weapons foam-wrapped PVC, or harder foam molded into sword-shapes? I've had the former, but not the latter.
Hmm, I trust your judgement and agree. But it's still a ***** to have a back scabbard for my part. But this is more about games, if you want, we could continue this discussion another time? :)

My larp weapons are either like these http://www.rodes.dk/images/products/PalnatokeElvenBlade.jpg

Or these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX7LisW1_L8

Depend entirely what LARP I'm attening.
 

StellarViking

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Apr 10, 2011
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You shouldn't play Iron Storm, then. Guy has three weapons strapped to his back. I tried a sword with a back scabbard and it was difficult to draw, simply because it was longer than my arm. I've had success with a quiver and bow on my shoulder, but swords (except with the earlier scabbard) were just a bit difficult for me.
 

ajemas

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Nov 19, 2009
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I'm sorry, but I can't believe that you're actually complaining about it not being realistic. In games with magic, dragons, mythical creatures, and the complete destruction of any form of ontological inertia, why are you focused on the way characters keep their weapons? I would think that you would be complaining about how half of them would probably break immediately because they're so poorly designed, or how weapons from completely different time periods with completely different purposes are placed side by side.
Honestly, it really doesn't matter how they are carried. It's aesthetically pleasing, and you should probably be focusing on the dragons.
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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kittii-chan 300 said:
you said MMO's? they use magc to keep their swod attached!and its not as bad as pulling a sword out of nowhere like in lots of games. you have plate mail???
I have plate, chain mail, leather armor, and cute hello kitty underwear. Joke.
 

Kitteh

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Mar 31, 2010
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You should see spore. The pieces of the outfit seemingly float right over where I want to put it, making a shirt hard to add without it clipping through the creature's chest.
 

kittii-chan 300

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Feb 27, 2011
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Christian Lerche said:
kittii-chan 300 said:
you said MMO's? they use magc to keep their swod attached!and its not as bad as pulling a sword out of nowhere like in lots of games. you have plate mail???
I have plate, chain mail, leather armor, and cute hello kitty underwear. Joke.
aaawww :( i would have traded you EXALIBUR for the underwear...
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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ajemas said:
I'm sorry, but I can't believe that you're actually complaining about it not being realistic. In games with magic, dragons, mythical creatures, and the complete destruction of any form of ontological inertia, why are you focused on the way characters keep their weapons? I would think that you would be complaining about how half of them would probably break immediately because they're so poorly designed, or how weapons from completely different time periods with completely different purposes are placed side by side.
Honestly, it really doesn't matter how they are carried. It's aesthetically pleasing, and you should probably be focusing on the dragons.
Read the rest of this thread. I have a right to demand that it makes sense in it's own world.
Like any other shitty / good animé it explains EVERYTHING, and big games like the ones that has been mentioned, have at least enough conversation to fit a Dan Brown novel, so just mention or hint or at least make it look like it belongs in that world.

EDIT: I would focus on the dragons, but there are only like, one in DA2, 0 in the witcher, and WoW... I don't play MMO seriosly, so that is off the hook. In a game that takes itself seriosly, it should also at least take in the consideration that you're going to watch this floaty weapon crap for more than 24 hours.
 

teisjm

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Mar 3, 2009
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Having to fit every single weapon model nicely to every single character model that might be wearing said weapon would add a lot of costly manhours to the already hefty graphics budgets, that could've been spend better elsewhere. Especially if they have to unsheet them proberbly.
Making unique well-fitted drawing animations for every weapons even more so.
This is especially true for games like WoW with tons of character/armor/weapon combinations.

But yeah, if it's a single player game with one cjaracter model that has to draw the weapon, and relatively few weapons, it would be nice.
 

Christian Lerche

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Jun 22, 2010
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kittii-chan 300 said:
Christian Lerche said:
kittii-chan 300 said:
you said MMO's? they use magc to keep their swod attached!and its not as bad as pulling a sword out of nowhere like in lots of games. you have plate mail???
I have plate, chain mail, leather armor, and cute hello kitty underwear. Joke.
aaawww :( i would have traded you EXALIBUR for the underwear...
Pfff, I'm a orc, I don't use swords most of the time.

Picture: Me bitching it out

[http://img684.imageshack.us/i/24873349721966193645856.jpg/]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us [http://imageshack.us]

LIKE A BOSS!
 

Camarilla

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Jul 17, 2008
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To be fair to The Witcher, they had to have Geralt wear his silver and steel swords on his back because it's explicitly stated in the novels that he does:

"The stranger's hair was almost white, but he was not old. Beneath his coat he wore a leather jerkin laced at the neck and shoulders. When he removed his coat, all saw the sword strapped across his back. This was nothing remarkable - in Vizima almost everyone went armed; but no one carried their sword behind them like a bow or quiver."