Rape threats reported to mothers, one mother replies
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True, but probably not the point. If either the recipient of the threat or the mom had at any point thought the threat was serious, I'm pretty sure the conversation would have had a different tone, and would have involved the police.super_mega_ultra said:
What the kid DID do was insult somebody behind the cowardly safety of his keyboard, at the same time trivializing a serious, despicable offence, just for the lulz probably. And that's what his mom reacted to. And I would to. If my girl threatened (when she's older, 'cause right now, she can barely manage a keyboard) anyone of rape/castration/death/dismemberment/doxxing/other, she and I would have a Talk. The kind of Talk that would still be going on come Christmas 2016. And I do not care what she was reacting to - some right wing nutters make me want to chew through plywood, but for the sake of my own cause and self-respect as well as for the sake of free, intelligent discourse everywhere, I will never descend to threats of any kind to shut them up. In person or anonymously. And whether they use threats to puff up their causes is also irrelevant - although an excellent reason why threats shouldn't be used in the first place, I'd think.
You mention the threat's recipient was 'obviously' wanting attention. I don't tweet, or read the bloody things, but I think if she'd wanted the kind of attention you mentioned before, she'd have re-tweeted and inflated the threats, not her way of dealing with them. And since you don't deal with a real rapist by contacting his mom, I'm pretty sure from her actions she didn't consider the threat real. Somebody sent her a nasty insult, and it was obviously coming from some juvenile cretin who felt safe in knowing he'd never meet this woman in real life. So she contacted his mom, who could go over and chew his ear off until he, hopefully, apologizes. I think that's an appropriate response on her part. Maybe this kid will not do it next time. Maybe a few other teen idiots will hear of this and, instead of just changing their facebook privacy settings, will suddenly imagine their parents looming over their shoulder every time they start typing their usual drivel and will stop and give up instead. This might have made the whole cesspool of the internet just a teensy tiny little bit better. Or not. Google 'Parable of the boy and the starfish' for why I think she did good to at least make the effort.
Heh, this is good. Might teach them to mind who they say these things to. Totally in favor of this person's initiative.
I was hit twice in my life by my mom (both times was one single smack on the ass). Both times, I totally deserved it, although, on further thought, it didn't really teach me the lesson I was supposed to learn (I was hit for lying to her face for 2 straight months that I had no homework at all and turned it in blank. I still did it as I got older, but I made sure it wasn't often, or I filled in BS answer instead). The rest of my punishments were very loud lectures, and grounding. I turned out pretty damn well (if a bit spineless).
My cousins who had corporal punishment somewhat regularly in their lives? >_> It's not pretty.
The older one is now a total douche who would similarly punish his younger brother over nothing at all, and as an adult is kinda a heavy drinking dick who thinks intimidating people who disagree with him is how you debate, and has serious anger issues. No doubt he'll hit his own kids regularly when he has them.
The younger brother? He attempted suicide, the parents were shocked and didn't understand why, and finally they stopped all corporal punishment after a long talk with the social worker caring for him after the incident (he did NOT want to go home from the hospital). He's fine now, but he's now super introverted (to the point where he makes me as a kid look like a loudmouth).
If my own brother, who already has anger issues, was smacked around as a kid? I'm fairly certain he'd have either run away from home, or tried to actually hurt my parents by now. >_>
Honestly, if I ever get to the point where I feel I NEED to tell someone they're being horrible parents, I would likely feel an insane urge to fire back "Well, SOMEONE has to raise them!"Zachary Amaranth said:
I'm leaning heavily towards "physical discipline doesn't work". I've seen what it can do if it becomes commonplace.chikusho said:
I was hit twice in my life by my mom (both times was one single smack on the ass). Both times, I totally deserved it, although, on further thought, it didn't really teach me the lesson I was supposed to learn (I was hit for lying to her face for 2 straight months that I had no homework at all and turned it in blank. I still did it as I got older, but I made sure it wasn't often, or I filled in BS answer instead). The rest of my punishments were very loud lectures, and grounding. I turned out pretty damn well (if a bit spineless).
My cousins who had corporal punishment somewhat regularly in their lives? >_> It's not pretty.
The older one is now a total douche who would similarly punish his younger brother over nothing at all, and as an adult is kinda a heavy drinking dick who thinks intimidating people who disagree with him is how you debate, and has serious anger issues. No doubt he'll hit his own kids regularly when he has them.
The younger brother? He attempted suicide, the parents were shocked and didn't understand why, and finally they stopped all corporal punishment after a long talk with the social worker caring for him after the incident (he did NOT want to go home from the hospital). He's fine now, but he's now super introverted (to the point where he makes me as a kid look like a loudmouth).
If my own brother, who already has anger issues, was smacked around as a kid? I'm fairly certain he'd have either run away from home, or tried to actually hurt my parents by now. >_>
Nahh, these kids probably wouldn't be able to look her in the eye. They're all cowards, I doubt any of them are really "unhinged". They just indulge in standard brain-dead juvenilia that they'll stop doing once they realise the world doesn't revolve around them. A lot of otherwise "decent" people will sometimes use anonymity to spread vile stuff. Maybe they're curious what the reaction would be? Maybe they're just really shitty people? Regardless, I hope every dumbass kid that sends abuse gets caught.Sylveria said:
Oh and I'm glad that she shot down any accusations that [REDACTED] was involved. Journalists are getting desperate. Let's not open that can of worms here though.
Saw this story on ABC's Good Game tonight. If my parents had ever caught me doing something like that, they would have cut my internet access off for months. Hopefully these little shits get something of the same treatment.
Man, get with it already. Can't you understand that referring to how parents refuse to discipline their children is totally advocating child abuse?Zachary Amaranth said:
That's awful (although I did laugh at the 'bad with directions' bit). I had a similar experience where, growing up, I thought stuff like racism and sexism was all in the past and any lingering issues (like gendered pay gaps or my boss' souring face at the mention of Aboriginals) was just like... leftover mess that would be tidied up once policy caught up and/or all the older people who'd grown up with discrimination had passed on.Zachary Amaranth said:
Turns out... no. There's a metric ton of intolerance still floating about, it's just less acceptable to be overt about it. The internet and its anonymity is like the last great sanctuary for people who have to watch what they say in real life and in fact are the first to claim that they're not intolerant.
I think that's all 'isms' greatest defence: The steadfast denial that it exists at all. The people who claim 'SJW' as an insult instead of an accolade are a prime example of 'ists' who have learned that it's not socially acceptable to say outright that they think a race/religion/gender/belief is inferior - but they can kind of worm about and claim the person(s) they hate are over reacting/pushing agendas/seeking attention without the consequence of immediately being identified as a racist/sexist etc.
I find it very interesting that you seem to think a threat is a perfectly normal and acceptable reaction to reading something 'provoking' or 'insulting'.super_mega_ultra said:
That is certainly an opinion.
I don't know where to begin with this. The assertion that Mx Pearce wanted attention is exactly the kind of reaction that deflects scorn from the person making the threats, to the person receiving them. 'Everyone gets attacked at some point, people should shut up about it, if anyone says anything they're only doing it to get attention' is certainly a very cynical view to have.
I agree that Mx Pearce probably didn't consider the threat to be made with intent to follow through - otherwise she'd be contacting the police rather than the mother - but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to object to being threatened at all, nor to share one instance where her very low-key response to such threats actually worked. The fact that her tweet was re-tweeted more than usual will probably bring her more attacks rather than attention - something that only masochists enjoy.
When I read this, I was kind of reminded of Captain America.Sylveria said:
Your opinion seems to be 'when people bully you, just accept it'. Cap would say 'stand up for yourself'. I know that I personally would rather stand up for myself and have the rare genuinely-unhinged person (instead of just a regular scumbag person) come to kill me, than waste my life being cowed by such filth. Everybody dies sometime. I'd want to be proud of the life I left behind.
Your comment reminded me of this guy who harassed a man and his wife, sent multiple rape and murder threats, mailed threatening and hurtful things to their door and turned out to be the son of a friend, 17 years old. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/26/day-confronted-trollsanquin said:
I know teens in particular are prone to tearing other people down to make themselves feel powerful but I can't comprehend the intensity of the bile behind such attacks. Is it instability? A degree of sociopathy, like tearing wings off flies? Schoolyard bullying in an arena where it's very difficult to get caught and the "game" to win is making the victim shut down their online presence?
I have to admit, the one positive about increased government oversight of internet use is the improved ability for police services to actually pick people up for what is, technically, a crime.
Heh. I agree. Don't hate the person reporting the threats, hate the people making the threats for giving them the opportunity to.super_mega_ultra said:
I agree. Saying something nasty is probably better than knifing someone. However, it is not an either/or situation. The issue is that people aren't just getting angry and fighting with words, or disagreeing, or arguing. They're not just reflexively shouting 'I will effing kill you' in the heat of the moment like a drunk guy at the pub. They don't calm down later and apologise before explaining what made them so angry in the first place. They just threaten, often explicitly and often repetitively. It is harassment, plain and simple. It's intimidation with intent to cause fear, a written attack because the person (presumably) lacks the ability to disagree without threats or without saying anything at all. It is, in fact, illegal. There's a difference between insulting someone and threatening them.
Agreed.super_mega_ultra said:
She only tweeted it on her personal tweet. That's it. She didn't send it around to local news groups or anything. If she can't tweet about something that she is experiencing in her life, then what the heck is twitter for?
Definitely...with variants such as it is fading away so if we ignore it it will disappear by itself, or it is a problem, but not here, go do something about some nation you don't live in and don't know about rather than expect things to improve here.VondeVon said:
That's not really comparable. In the case of the post, it was one comment on a facebook page. You talk about multiple threats and snail mail. (more personal than e-mail, imo) That's quite a bit more severe than one comment on facebook. In your example, I'd say that the guy should be reported to the police. Can't really compare the two cases, imo, apart from that they're both about threatening someone in a broad sense.VondeVon said:
I'm not sure if it doesn't work, but it appears to be the least effective and most deleterious method to alter behaviour.aegix drakan said:
Oh, crap, you're right! This whole time by mocking parents who pull this, I was totally endorsing it. I will apologise to insaninater immediately.Shamanic Rhythm said:Man, get with it already. Can't you understand that referring to how parents refuse to discipline their children is totally advocating child abuse?
Fun fact. I once got disciplined at work for grabbing the hand of a guy I thought was going to hit his child. I can't absolutely prove it, so it was his word against mine, but....
In other words, I totally support child abuse, right? >.>
This is a very bad way to respond to people saying mean things online, partially because it's escalating and partially because as you say it works spectacularly well in reverse. If it becomes socially acceptable to contact people's parents because they did something you don't like then that's a weapon anyone can use. That includes justified people but it also includes both sides of the Internet censorship versus rudeness war and all their asshole friends.The Choke said:
It means that one lot will be trying to get people in to trouble for something that may never happened, it also means that the homophobes get to use the same weapon to out people to their parents, which can be lethal (as I'm sure you know). If you allow this to become acceptable that means every idiot on Tumblr is going to use it in response to obviously shooped shit that never happened, 4chan is going to use it to tell people their kids are shitposting online (and probably also doxing people, which'd be a fun loop) and bigots are going to use it to ask if parents know their teenage boy has been seen making out with other guys.
Hell, that's even assuming a measured and restrained use of this. Remember kids; if #gettingracistsfired works, so will #gettingfaggotsfired. This is a can of worms you want to think hard before opening.
I'm not American, I'm British and we have the same laws (in fact I think ours are actually stronger) but the Internet isn't our two countries, this'd work very well in some other countries and even within certain of the more closed communities in the UK.The Choke said:
My lawyer little sister points out to me that, as a country, the UK has stronger anti-discrimination laws than US federal laws, but on a state by state basis, some states actually offer more protection. Blah blah blah, let's liberal-arm-wrestle over our liberal-ness.ForumSafari said:
I don't disagree that outing can be used to devastating effects, though I'd argue that it's ALREADY being used to devastating effects, and so the ominous "don't open this can of worms yadda-yadda" should probably be leveled at, you know, the people who opened that can of worms in the first place, but that's a whole long chicken-egg argument that I think would just make my head hurt. Suffice to say: I don't think that people should quietly accept abuse on the off-chance that calling someone out on that abuse gives some other asshole an idea on how to be an asshole.
I used my anecdote to illustrate why I wouldn't contact someone's mother: I have found that some people's mothers are stupid, small-minded jerks. However, I think public intervention has its place. We ask kids all the time to stand up for other kids who are being bullied. We tell people that they have a duty to call the police if they hear a violent domestic dispute. In that same vein, I like the idea of being able to turn to someone and say, "hey, your kid is being an asshole, could you do something about that?" I just, unfortunately, don't think it works most of the time. Because of the small-minded jerk thing.
Captcha's all, "full house."