Nobody is talking about that kind of "rape", if you think they are then you are mistaken.Quotation Marx said:
Rape versus assault and murder
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Seconded. Is it really considered Murder by the courts if the Rapist has AIDS?Mad Maniac with axe-firing chainsaw said:
If rape is worse than murder how about murder then rape? Since they've been murdered they can't be upset about the rape so it only counts as one horrible thing to do.
If there's sufficient evidence that he knew he had AIDS then yes, I think we can all agree that constitute something akin to murder (minus the dying straight away :S).Lord Thodin said:
The difference between assault and rape is that rape is so much more personal. It's an act of power over the victim, forcing them to sex which is unwelcome and incredibly personal.
In addition the attitude that rape is somehow the victims fault as the victim's response is in no way alleviated by the attitude taken in rape prosecution and the general social approach to the act itself. Just thing if other crimes were treated the same way, such as theft. Note: The following is not an attack on lawyers.
Say that Businessman X, let's call him Mr Money found himself robbed by an acquaintance to whom he had previously given financial aid. If it was approached the same way as a rape trial you might see something like the following:
"So Mr Money, you have accused my client of stealing a total of $500 and an expensive watch off of you while you were drunk and unconscious on her couch. Is that correct?"
"Yes."
"And am I to understand that you have previously given money to my client?"
"Yes, she'd been in a bit of strife earlier in the year and asked me for help, so I gave it."
"Am I to also understand that in the event of the theft you were both inebriated, and you, Mr Money, were wearing an expensive suit which outwardly suggests that you would be a prime person to go to for money?"
"We'd been drinking, and yes I was in a suit."
"How then was my client meant to understand that you didn't want her to take your watch and wallet? After all, it's not the first time she has received money from you."
"I was unconscious, I didn't hand her the wallet and watch, she stole them.
"I don't think she did, I think she took them under a false impression that you established, so it was a gift instead."
End result: the accused gets a slap on the wrist and Mr Money gets nothing.
In addition the attitude that rape is somehow the victims fault as the victim's response is in no way alleviated by the attitude taken in rape prosecution and the general social approach to the act itself. Just thing if other crimes were treated the same way, such as theft. Note: The following is not an attack on lawyers.
Say that Businessman X, let's call him Mr Money found himself robbed by an acquaintance to whom he had previously given financial aid. If it was approached the same way as a rape trial you might see something like the following:
"So Mr Money, you have accused my client of stealing a total of $500 and an expensive watch off of you while you were drunk and unconscious on her couch. Is that correct?"
"Yes."
"And am I to understand that you have previously given money to my client?"
"Yes, she'd been in a bit of strife earlier in the year and asked me for help, so I gave it."
"Am I to also understand that in the event of the theft you were both inebriated, and you, Mr Money, were wearing an expensive suit which outwardly suggests that you would be a prime person to go to for money?"
"We'd been drinking, and yes I was in a suit."
"How then was my client meant to understand that you didn't want her to take your watch and wallet? After all, it's not the first time she has received money from you."
"I was unconscious, I didn't hand her the wallet and watch, she stole them.
"I don't think she did, I think she took them under a false impression that you established, so it was a gift instead."
End result: the accused gets a slap on the wrist and Mr Money gets nothing.
Sadly, this is what happens - I don't know how defence lawyers can sleep at night when they get rapists off of prision for their crimes. Ok, they have to defend them, but still, why so effectively. Our system is sadly broken in such a way as criminals have more rights than victims; I heard of one case a few years ago where a theft accidently got himself kill whilst climbing over a factory roof, and the factory got sued even though the theft wasn't meant to be there.Labyrinth said:
(Also to other who have commented and responded.)
Thank you, I'm getting a better understanding of why rape seems to be perceived worse by victims and spectators. I think I don't have enough emphatic ability to really put myself in that place and imagine what i could be like
(I do have emphaty for people who feel bad by the way, so don't think I'm a sociopath or anything .. )
Also, the way you talk about it, makes it seem that you think society has a part to do with the psychological trauma after a rape. Do you think that if there was a mentality change within society that would make victims not feel unmanly/slutty after they were raped, it would have an impact on the psychological pain a victim feels? Or is being raped inherently going to be a worse experience because people by nature feel that 'that area' and 'that act' is more special. I would expect a beat dog to behave the same as a raped dog if the physical trauma was equal. (Yes, a person is not a dog, but they are both mammals and I'm not religious. I see sex and sexorgans not as special, but as an act and bodyparts)
That work by Freud sounds interesting, I'll try to find it after my exams are done I've read parts of his more famous work for a class I took but I couldn't help but find it bullshit .. Not that penis-envy thing though, it was about the Ego, the Id and the Superego.
Amoreyna said:
Thank you, I'm getting a better understanding of why rape seems to be perceived worse by victims and spectators. I think I don't have enough emphatic ability to really put myself in that place and imagine what i could be like
(I do have emphaty for people who feel bad by the way, so don't think I'm a sociopath or anything .. )Also, the way you talk about it, makes it seem that you think society has a part to do with the psychological trauma after a rape. Do you think that if there was a mentality change within society that would make victims not feel unmanly/slutty after they were raped, it would have an impact on the psychological pain a victim feels? Or is being raped inherently going to be a worse experience because people by nature feel that 'that area' and 'that act' is more special. I would expect a beat dog to behave the same as a raped dog if the physical trauma was equal. (Yes, a person is not a dog, but they are both mammals and I'm not religious. I see sex and sexorgans not as special, but as an act and bodyparts)
That work by Freud sounds interesting, I'll try to find it after my exams are done
I've read parts of his more famous work for a class I took but I couldn't help but find it bullshit .. Not that penis-envy thing though, it was about the Ego, the Id and the Superego.
What's worse is that it's a reflection of a culture in which there is an expectation that a woman will have sex when it's required of her. Aside from the sheer freaking inequality present in the ideas of the male 'stud' and the female 'slut' it's a horrible concept to begin with.Doug said:
Why is only murder and assault seen as the "contenders" to rape? I'm reminded by an artist in my area that made a slideshow depicting hate crimes.
The example picture they used to promote the show was enough to make me feel all cold inside, highlighting the fact that you can do really humiliating things and emotionally scar people without even getting close to rape.
The example picture they used to promote the show was enough to make me feel all cold inside, highlighting the fact that you can do really humiliating things and emotionally scar people without even getting close to rape.
A rape victim can still breathe, can still see and hear.berethond said:
A rape victim still wakes up in the morning and eats breakfast.
A rape victim still has birthdays.
Sure, they are going to feel bad things, but at least they can feel.
Saying something is worse than murder is a very bold claim.
Flare huh? It could use a little more I'll give you that, you got anything better?McCa said:
It was not a joke, the question was asked I answered. If I was joking I wouldn't have put so much detail into it, and it would have been more humorous.Knight Templar said:
Bad taste is subjective anyway.
totally agreed.space_oddity said:
murder is death. you cease to exist. it doesnt matter your beliefs, there is no afterlife. you do not "find peace" because you dont think, you are not conscious, you dont exist anymore. people dont seem to get this. Rape is just forced intercourse. you know, you dont HAVE to feel bad that you were raped, you just choose to. I was beaten as a child, very very badly(think: Hospital) I do not feel bad, in fact, I dont feel anything at all except maybe a sligth regret i never ripped out my fathers throat. Rape is no more personal than murder. in fact, its less. How can you get more personal than someone taking away everything?...you cant.
rape, you can get over. death, not so much.
rape, raped by the candy man
lured me into his candy van
said i could suck his lollipop
all i got was a big fat cock!(in singsong)
I agree with the op.
Rape is what rape is.
ah, the id. rapists id screws up victims super ego. yes it is societies fault. they dont understand that, but what can you expect from people? change for the better? when pigs fly.Sebass said:(Also to other who have commented and responded.)
Amoreyna said:
Thank you, I'm getting a better understanding of why rape seems to be perceived worse by victims and spectators. I think I don't have enough emphatic ability to really put myself in that place and imagine what i could be like
Also, the way you talk about it, makes it seem that you think society has a part to do with the psychological trauma after a rape. Do you think that if there was a mentality change within society that would make victims not feel unmanly/slutty after they were raped, it would have an impact on the psychological pain a victim feels? Or is being raped inherently going to be a worse experience because people by nature feel that 'that area' and 'that act' is more special. I would expect a beat dog to behave the same as a raped dog if the physical trauma was equal. (Yes, a person is not a dog, but they are both mammals and I'm not religious. I see sex and sexorgans not as special, but as an act and bodyparts)
That work by Freud sounds interesting, I'll try to find it after my exams are done