Rapist With The Dragon Tattoo

[corvuscorrax]

In response to the OP no she's not. Though she did commit the act purely out of vengeance but often there are never better reasons to act than that.

I've personally thought it'd be amusing to have a show like dexter but instead of a serial killer who kills other killers, it's about a rapist who rapes other rapists.

 

[Starke]

Much as I loathe Bob

Very weird thing to bring up, but, uh, okay, I guess.

Not that weird. If I said, "Much as I like deep fried pickles, Bob may have a point there", that would be weird. Loathing Bob's just a matter of having taste, or something.

EDIT: I'm sorry, you deserve a slightly better answer then that. I really dislike Bob, due to his sloppy generalizing, and rampant tantrums. And, I tend to discount everything that comes out of his mouth as a result.

 

[Starke]

Quote Wiki, and also the foreword in some editions of the books: 'Larsson, aged 15, stood by as three of his friends gang-raped an acquaintance of his named Lisbeth. He did nothing to help her. Wracked with guilt, he begged her forgiveness days later, but she angrily refused. The incident haunted him for years afterward, and in part inspired him to create a character named Lisbeth who was also a rape victim.'

...

Okay, I think I'm going to go be sick now.

 

[JimB]

I'm sorry, you deserve a slightly better answer then that. I really dislike Bob, due to his sloppy generalizing, and rampant tantrums. And, I tend to discount everything that comes out of his mouth as a result.

Fair enough. I've been doing pretty much the same thing to, well, it's probably not cool to name names, but yeah, I am not innocent of that crime. I just like to believe I wouldn't be grudging to admit they have a point, if they ever actually get a point one day; but don't we all like to think better of ourselves?

Thanks for coming back and addressing me honestly. That's pretty cool of you.

 

[Right Hook]

Why is rape okay as long as it happens to a "bad guy?" I simply don't buy that premise. It fucking hurts (I'd imagine), in addition to all of the other things that would happen to a person's psyche. You can't rape in self defense. She did it for her own masochistic pleasure. Next will we have a movie where the protagonist is a prison rapist, but it's "okay" because he only assaults convicted rapists? And the movie sees it as justified and we're supposed to be on that character's side?

Replace rape with murder and you've basically described the plot to the tv show Dexter. Some people think an eye for an eye is acceptable, some don't, both could make perfectly decent cases either way. Oh and you might want to hold onto your prison rapist raper idea because I could totally see that becoming a show on HBO.

 

[StylinBones]

It's a movie. That part was just in there to add to the drama and show that she's badass and crafty. It didn't really have much to do with the plot of the movie.

I thought the plot was solid and entertaining.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

The rape scenes in this movie where like having a really bad psychedelic drug trip. I felt physically ill.

The movie got it right then. I've never actually felt a physical response to a piece of literature before that chapter in that book. My face was deep red, my forehead was sweating, my stomach was writhing and I had a lump in throat. It's a very intense piece of literature.

Oh... I'm cautiously curious in picking up the book now just to see how it was written.

One of the reasons Rape should be avoided in fiction is because, aside from it being almost cliche, it's incredibly difficult thing to write. To much one way, and it's like a life time movie. To much another way, it's porn. It's extremely difficult to really hit the right tone to make the audience feel ill over it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the movie did the book (i've never read it) justice, however because... well from the story perspective? Aside from giving her motivation to help with the case, I feel like one could of elimnated all rape scenes and the whole "getting her money from the government douchebag" thing and it wouldn't of changed the story.

Then again, while I can't say I agreed with Lisabeth sodomizing the guy and tattooing of his chest, it did leave me... Well it's a silly notion, but I found myself wishing I could give her a hug. Homegirl is soooooooo freaking dark, and distrusting, and then at the end when she thinks she has romantic feelings for James Bond and it doesn't work out it's soooooooooo that much more heart breaking. You spend the whole movie just wanting to see her smile, just a little bit.

 

[Do4600]

The rape scenes in this movie where like having a really bad psychedelic drug trip. I felt physically ill.

The movie got it right then. I've never actually felt a physical response to a piece of literature before that chapter in that book. My face was deep red, my forehead was sweating, my stomach was writhing and I had a lump in throat. It's a very intense piece of literature.

Oh... I'm cautiously curious in picking up the book now just to see how it was written.

One of the reasons Rape should be avoided in fiction is because, aside from it being almost cliche, it's incredibly difficult thing to write. To much one way, and it's like a life time movie. To much another way, it's porn. It's extremely difficult to really hit the right tone to make the audience feel ill over it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the movie did the book (i've never read it) justice, however because... well from the story perspective? Aside from giving her motivation to help with the case, I feel like one could of elimnated all rape scenes and the whole "getting her money from the government douchebag" thing and it wouldn't of changed the story.

Then again, while I can't say I agreed with Lisabeth sodomizing the guy and tattooing of his chest, it did leave me... Well it's a silly notion, but I found myself wishing I could give her a hug. Homegirl is soooooooo freaking dark, and distrusting, and then at the end when she thinks she has romantic feelings for James Bond and it doesn't work out it's soooooooooo that much more heart breaking. You spend the whole movie just wanting to see her smile, just a little bit.

It's a very well written book, the last sixth or so is a little slow. I found it absorbing, I finished it in three days over winter break.

As far as the rape is concerned, it's certainly no lifetime special and it's far from pornography. It's very complex, I can almost guarantee that everybody will hate this man though. You're relating to Lisbeth at this point in the story. Lisbeth's emotions, however, are blank. She doesn't react. It almost seems like she treats sexual abuse as a unpleasant chore, at least at first. It's devastatingly awkward, devastatingly, dangerously awkward. This man thinks of it as a sexual encounter but Lisbeth is mechanically performing actions, it's disturbing. Lisbeth is more perplexed after the first incident, almost as if she is pondering what do do about a defective appliance. It's very alienating, I've never read anything that has invoked so many conflicting emotions so intensely.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

2. So the rape victim gets to take revenge "based on his/her emotions" and the emotions of the other victims are worth jack sh*t.

The family' anger at their relatives death is balanced by their knowledge of his crime, so therefore they have no right to revenge since they know his actions were criminal and deserved punishment.

If you cant form a cogent reply or add something more, then i wouldn't even bother.

So emotions are balanced out by knowledge?
Like the emotions of the victims in the real world are balanced out by knowing that the culprit will never harm anyone again and has been stripped of his freedom?
Should that not work as well?
Since, apparently emotions and knowledge totally work that way.

 

[Vault101]

So exactly what i said when i called it a self defeatist white male hetrosexual shame decleration of a self styled white-knight, in Sweden.

wait..whats the hetero part got to do with it?

homosexuality isnt the main theme here

 

[Vault101]

TL;DR version: as a teenager, Larsson stood and watched as three of his friend raped a girl named Lisbeth. He did nothing to stop them. Lisbeth never forgave him and he was haunted by guilt for the rest of his life.

imo, the fictional character Lisbeth Salander was Larsson's attempt to absolve himself for his inaction, by creating a fictional heroine who can avenge her own rape, and therefore didn't need Larsson's help.

so it's not quite a masturbatory fantasy, but it's still pretty gross and self-indulgent.

I think thats a bit unfair....as somone else said this is an adult story with adult themes

they say "wrtie what you know" and that is more or less what Larson did (the story does surprise me in a way) I also think its a bit unfair to to call it "gross and self indulgent" he was a dumb kid at the time and I guess if this was his way of trying to make up for something he never really could then...

 

[WitherVoice]

She did it for her own masochistic pleasure.

Sadistic pleasure, surely?

Original Post Snip of DOOM

It's all reprehensible at every angle. In the book (not seen movie) the POINT of the exercise is simple enough to understand... Miss Salander distrusts everyone, in particular authority figures. This particular authority figure is her legal guardian, and having him removed through legal means is one: not a solution she has faith in, and two: not a way to gain her autonomy, as a new guardian will simply be appointed. When she is raped by this person, this makes her feel justified in taking whatever action she deems necessary to wrest control of her life from him - and she is more or less successful. It also establishes a fairly central character trait - that she is completely willing to go far beyond legal actions in search of payback, and that while she is surrounded by horrible people, she is no less of a monster than they (ymmv).

 

[SpaceBat]

I honestly can't believe that some people here believe that rape is in any way justifiable. I understand people having questionable morality when it comes to justice (Such as confusing it with revenge), but I never expected so many escapist users to come up with such vile shit as they're doing now.

Rape is never justified, because it's rape. That "An eye for an eye" bullshit that people keep repeating doesn't work well when the revenge is forcibly committing sexual acts on another person.

I haven't seen the movie, but I doubt they made her to be a great person with excellent mental health, so I'm sure it works within the movie.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

She did it for her own masochistic pleasure.

Sadistic pleasure, surely?

282 posts and I'm pretty sure that was the first one to point out that error.

 

[cobra_ky]

TL;DR version: as a teenager, Larsson stood and watched as three of his friend raped a girl named Lisbeth. He did nothing to stop them. Lisbeth never forgave him and he was haunted by guilt for the rest of his life.

imo, the fictional character Lisbeth Salander was Larsson's attempt to absolve himself for his inaction, by creating a fictional heroine who can avenge her own rape, and therefore didn't need Larsson's help.

so it's not quite a masturbatory fantasy, but it's still pretty gross and self-indulgent.

I think thats a bit unfair....as somone else said this is an adult story with adult themes

they say "wrtie what you know" and that is more or less what Larson did (the story does surprise me in a way) I also think its a bit unfair to to call it "gross and self indulgent" he was a dumb kid at the time and I guess if this was his way of trying to make up for something he never really could then...

There's an actual Lisbeth out there who got to watch Larsson become famous and make millions of off her personal tragedy.

 

[gravian]

I get the feeling that the rape scene with Lisbeth and her revenge is supposed to illustrate just how screwed up of a person she is (as others have pointed out). It wasn't supposed to be painted in a light of, "oh she is totally justified in doing this to the man!" but more along the lines of, wow she is messed up. I mean...

Also, from what I recall, her whole revenge on Bjurman was done with the point of humiliating him (just as he did to her). She could have turned him in, but what would that have gotten her? Instead, she enacted the ultimate revenge fantasy and in the process was able to get FULL access to her funds AND have the freedom of not having a guardian.

For me this sums up what the book was trying to do, in establishing Lisbeth as screwed up/damaged by giving the audience a shock and not trying to be overly sympathetic or rationally justify it.

Also, the book mentions that Salander dosen't trust the police due to previous stuff that's happened to her (damn I wish I knew how to spoiler things), and has her own way of taking revenge on people who cross her.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

So, how is she any less of a rapist than the guy who raped her? Theoretically, the guy could easily call the cops and they'd both go to jail for a really long time. Isn't rape categorically wrong and a crime no matter who commits it to who? Why does this beloved (from what I've seen online) character get let off the hook? One could argue that he "deserved" it or was "asking for it," but by definition, no one deserves or asks for rape. It's not possible. It feels pretty despicable and disgusting to paint that act of violence as justifiable, which I'm pretty sure this movie does. Maybe I'm weird and looking at it the wrong way, but it feels fucked up.

Victims of traumatic forms of abuse are known to lash out. This is why the abused wife for years may one day shoot her abusive husband that rapes, beats, and basically enslaves her may shoot her husband in his sleep. You cannot expect rational and civil responses forever from those who endure such. A rape is a traumatic experience and which can trigger such responses. If you could make the argument that she would have done these acts without being a victim first then you would have some sort of point here.

Furthermore she is known to have psychological problems before hand, her very rapist is aware of this in-fact and given his position which grants him a form of power of her is just damning to him. So because of this and previous history and the traumatic experience she endured the charges would never stick against her. She would walk easily.

Now as far as the movies message this is a bit up to interpretation. But from what I took from the rape scenes is the aim to disgust and to be vile acts. This includes what she does and why she did something so brutal to make you cringe. This is a attempt to darken Lisbeth and show just what she is willing to do to those who would bring harm to her.
I don't believe the message of the movie at all through this was justice or any sort of positive act. The events that took place were mainly to show who Lisbeth is to help the viewer understand the character.

What he/she said.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

I honestly can't believe that some people here believe that rape is in any way justifiable. I understand people having questionable morality when it comes to justice (Such as confusing it with revenge), but I never expected so many escapist users to come up with such vile shit as they're doing now.

You mean like expecting a rape victim to act rationally? -_-