Balobo said:
Treblaine said:
FISKING! So much easier than writing well constructed prose, yet so much harder to reply to. See what you've done? ^^^^^^ Don't do that.
Rayman Origins DOES have significantly less content. It has a whole dimension less. Even Uncharted lets you turn and move to the side and explore environments and the whole element of camera and body positioning relative to the enemy, vehicle levels, weapon types, and a dozen other gameplay circumstances.
Yes, a games does have to be more than 2D for me to ever pay more than $20. There is only so much you can do with a 2D game, this isn't 1992 any more, times have changed.
Now I will repeat myself, as you seem to be playing jeopardy, I gave you the answer and then in the reply you give me the question that goes precisely with that answer: "as a 3D Graphics designer for computer games I'll tell you that is HARD WORK!"
You should expect the more basic 3D games to be cheaper precisely because Steam does that. Lower game prices are better for everyone, more people play the games and publishers get more money.
Everyone is "aware" of Rayman: origins. I remember seeing the prime-time TV slots in my country but they are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear when there are millions who will pay a fair price for a sows ear purse and enjoy it... but not being treated like chumps. Hardly anyone cares about Rayman's origins, and the art strays so much from the original that I remember and might have drawn me in (that PIXIE!). And the music and sound design is just an obnoxious cacophony. Less is more.
It is too expensive. Everything about this screams "$15 downloadable title", and it would have been a very good one. But they pushed it too far. Other great 2D sidescrollers have sold well even when released in the November melee... but they weren't sold on disc for $60. Remember it's not JUST the price, it's also the location. Cash in hand in store, it's going to go to Skyrim, Red Dead GOTY or COD, not this obnoxiously jubilant 2D French game. But on XBLA, much easier sell with some leftover points or a credit card with some money left.
If fisking is too hard for you to understand how to respond to then I will avoid doing it. Keep in mind some of us like to organize our points.
This first point doesn't make sense. So because you can position yourself in a 3D world rather than a 2D world... it makes it worth three times as much regardless of content? What the fuck. So let's say I make a blank 3D desert with about five enemies and a couple of weapons to attack them with. There is only one level. Is it worth more or less than Rayman Origins? Expect you to say "more" because you can position yourself, apparently adding 40 dollars worth of content.
Here's the thing, critics seem to be thinking that Rayman Origins did quite enough to justify its price point. I see people who have purchased the game say that its price point is justified. I see people who have paid a lot less after the game has been marked down saying that they feel bad for not buying at the full retail price because it is definitely worth it. Yes, I am aware that you are a 3D artist. Yes I am aware that 3D art takes hard work. How the hell does that mean that 2D art takes less work?
Listen, if you want to pay for the more generic 3D games such as CoD rather than a charming and beautiful 2D platformer, be my guest. Everybody that has purchased Rayman seems to be raving about it.
Yes, insult my intelligence why don't you. My objection to fisking was not my lack of comprehension and you know it as I made that explicit to you.
Worth UP TO three times as much. Serious Sam 3 isn't worth $60 though it is certainly a worth while game, the $40 is much more reasonable and it has a lot more going for it than a few enemies, this is a game where you have to learn to be a matadore... against an army of bulls! The only way you can survive is to start thinking in three dimensions in the most subtle ways. You made quite a straw man argument here, and I do not appreciate such attempts as you know they can only obfuscate.
Most critics don't mention the price at all. They got the game for free in the mail and very few publications approach the complex issue of price/value and often lose sight. Also, it is entirely possible that most of the critics are wrong
They have been before
*cough*
Modern-warfare-2
*cough*
Yep, SOME people pay for Rayman: origins. Obviously from it's poor sales not many have! Your ears seem deaf but only to the praise. And surprise surprise the people who bought it liked it. That's... kinda obvious.
"How the hell does that mean that 2D art takes less work?"
Photoshop.
I don't think many understand how revolutionary this tool has been. You can do the same drawings as 2x or 4x the speed with error correction, layers, edit moving, joining. Again, FIVE people worked on Rayman: Origins!
"if you want to pay for the more generic 3D games..."
Keep your meaningless insults to yourself in future. Its easy to be an internet tough guy, but having some real insightful critique? Pah! I expect too much.
R:O is colourfully "adorable" but in the most garish saccharine sweet way, the sound design is deep and complex but without any melodic structure of varying tone and pace. It's like a cat on a Disk jockey's sound board. THESE are real criticisms. Charming is the most is the most inappropriate word to describe the half-crazed hyperactive cast; leaping, gurning, posing and strutting they are fun more like a clown, it comes off more as desperately attention seeking.
There are linear games, but this is taking it almost literally, this is as linear as it gets hardly using the 2nd dimension for actual gameplay. The Metroid/Castlevania type games showed what a world you can create even in 2D by using both those dimensions to the full extent but not here. Just seems like a huge step back, and all I say applies to new Super Mario Bros Wii as well, so don't think this I ONLY have it in for Ubisoft.
