really you let your kid play THIS
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Well, the M rating on these games are only set according to the social norms and mores of the majority of the current mass population. Which can be a tiny 51%. In theory, 49% could find the idea ludicrous and it wouldn't matter.
I personally believe that it is the parents right to instill in their children the knowledge of right and wrong. Respect for all living things, respect for themselves, and at the very least the difference between fiction and reality.
If a parent feels confident in their childs grasp of the world, then the games should have no negative influence. If they are feeling cautious, they have every right to keep their child from such items.
I think censorship makes whatever is being censored more desireable. Its human nature to find the unexplored or the withheld. There is something in all of us that resents 'no tresspassing' signs. If you took the time to explain a thing, or a word, or a notion and why it is considered good or ill, you have improved that persons worldview and not hampered their curiousity.
And every little boy likes blood and guts and bugs and guns and explosions. These games were made for them, who are we kidding?
I personally believe that it is the parents right to instill in their children the knowledge of right and wrong. Respect for all living things, respect for themselves, and at the very least the difference between fiction and reality.
If a parent feels confident in their childs grasp of the world, then the games should have no negative influence. If they are feeling cautious, they have every right to keep their child from such items.
I think censorship makes whatever is being censored more desireable. Its human nature to find the unexplored or the withheld. There is something in all of us that resents 'no tresspassing' signs. If you took the time to explain a thing, or a word, or a notion and why it is considered good or ill, you have improved that persons worldview and not hampered their curiousity.
And every little boy likes blood and guts and bugs and guns and explosions. These games were made for them, who are we kidding?
I was merely implying that as Human Beings, we rarely have the wisdom and objectivity to be able to observe those sorts of things about ourselves. It usually takes an outside entity, such as say another human being, to observe that sort of behaviour in us.HG131 said:
Have you even read that article at all? He took 130 other published reports and counted how many of them said bad things about games compared to the amount that didn't. That only proves that if you take a random selection of reports about games causing violence, the general consensus will be that games cause violence.dante brevity said:
If I gather a random selection of "Hitler-lives-in-south-america" conspiracy theory books and compare them, the result will be an unanimous agreement that it's true. Which is a load of horsecock, just like the article you linked.
Wait... are you saying that you are fine with your nine year old kid playing violent M video games, but that you censor out the military recruitment propaganda because with all the other sources out there, failure to resist the temptation to enlist in the armed forces is some kind of epidemic?Jacob.pederson said:My kid (currently 9) was playing Unreal Tournament at age 4. So he has you beat thereIxionIndustries said:But I do censor games like Call of Duty due not to 'mature' content, but due to the militaristic propaganda inherent in them. Male children have a hard enough time resisting that message without throwing it into every moment of their playtime
And that's not even touching the entire "reducing someone to shiny red paste is fine, but a little nookie isn't" thing.
I registered pretty much just so I can reply to this topic.
Here's a little background on myself to give everyone some perspective. I am 28, a father to a two year old daughter, and I've been gaming since I was 9. And yes, I've also played all the "violent" stuff when I was a kid too.
The big question that needs to be addressed first is, does media effect behavior? Specifically, does violent media (or rather, any media that showcases values contrary to what you want to espouse) cause violence or at least has an effect on how one perceives violence?
I think the jury is still out on that one on the exact nature of it's effect. But to say that it has NO effect would be ridiculous. And to say it absolute say over you is just outright ridiculous.
Of course it has effect on us. If a movie is capable of moving me to tears, what's to say that a game can't move me to anger over time? That is my own rationale. And because of this, I personally do believe that violent mediums can have adverse effects on kids. (Keep note, I'm crossing the medium here, not just talking about games)
But then the next question is how much? Can it be mitigated? Is it long lasting? Here's the reality for me. I LOVE gaming. And most of the games I have, tend towards having SOME kind of violent element in some way. As such, I will not pretend I am impartial to this. I think that past a certain point, within a certain frame of control, with the right amount of moderation, this kind of thing would not be an issue. But that's because I have those controls in place. I have the ability to mitigate the ill effects that I think this could have on me. My two year old daughter? She'll imitate behaviors off of her Elmo video right after she sees it (which is why I love the Elmo videos about eating vegetables, but that's a whole different thing all together), so naturally I'm not too keen on letting watch me play Tekken with King where I contort my opponent into human pretzels. Now, if she DID, okay, it happened. No big deal. I can still teach her that this is not acceptable behavior. (Though that would be incredibly hypocritical of me, since she just SAW me play a game that does just that) The fact of the matter is, before I feel comfortable letting her play games like that, I need to make sure she has the emotional and intellectual framework that allows her to understand what exactly these things mean.
The studies have shown one thing in common: video game is a risk, it is a factor. It might not be permanent, it might not be so far impacting. But let's face it... why would I want to even want to allow that to persist even for a short while? Why the fuck would I be okay for my daughter to think violence towards another human being is acceptable even for a short while? Why would I WANT to have to do damage control? That is my primary reason for why I won't let my daughter play violent videogames. At least, not until I KNOW that she understands how to moderate the feelings and all that junk on her own. Want to play WoW? Fine, show me that you can exercise enough self-control so you won't let your grades drop, and your other responsibilities slip. Want to play Tekken? Fine, show me that you understand that this is not what most martial artists do, or that this is not a realistic portrayal of what happens to people when they get into a fist fight.
Think of it like this. You wouldn't let your teenage kid drive your car until you know said kid can drive your car responsibly and not go total the damn thing, right? You wouldn't want your kid having sex until he/she has enough emotional/safety knowledge towards relationship and sex, right? If all of these things are contingent upon knowledge, why shouldn't videogames?
Am I trying to pass the buck for social ills on video games? (or by extension, media in general) Fuck no. The responsibility still obviously lies with the parents. We all know this. But guys, this is exactly the kind of strawman that HALF of the posts in this thread is fighting about. Yes, we get idiots out there who are negligent parents and would do anything to pass the responsibility for being a bad parent off onto someone else. But I'd wager that most parents out there understand this far better than you'd think. If my daughter starts playing violent videogames at say, 5, and decides in kingdergarden the best way to get what she wants is to beat the living tar out of her classmates, that's COMPLETELY my own fault.
And I am certainly not going to say that video games need to be censored. Categorized? perhaps. Let's be real here. I like my own games too much to ever want to see someone pass a draconian censorship law that would make all of my entertainment blande and dull. But I'd be crazy to not keep a close eye on what my daughter grows up with.
Here's a little background on myself to give everyone some perspective. I am 28, a father to a two year old daughter, and I've been gaming since I was 9. And yes, I've also played all the "violent" stuff when I was a kid too.
The big question that needs to be addressed first is, does media effect behavior? Specifically, does violent media (or rather, any media that showcases values contrary to what you want to espouse) cause violence or at least has an effect on how one perceives violence?
I think the jury is still out on that one on the exact nature of it's effect. But to say that it has NO effect would be ridiculous. And to say it absolute say over you is just outright ridiculous.
Of course it has effect on us. If a movie is capable of moving me to tears, what's to say that a game can't move me to anger over time? That is my own rationale. And because of this, I personally do believe that violent mediums can have adverse effects on kids. (Keep note, I'm crossing the medium here, not just talking about games)
But then the next question is how much? Can it be mitigated? Is it long lasting? Here's the reality for me. I LOVE gaming. And most of the games I have, tend towards having SOME kind of violent element in some way. As such, I will not pretend I am impartial to this. I think that past a certain point, within a certain frame of control, with the right amount of moderation, this kind of thing would not be an issue. But that's because I have those controls in place. I have the ability to mitigate the ill effects that I think this could have on me. My two year old daughter? She'll imitate behaviors off of her Elmo video right after she sees it (which is why I love the Elmo videos about eating vegetables, but that's a whole different thing all together), so naturally I'm not too keen on letting watch me play Tekken with King where I contort my opponent into human pretzels. Now, if she DID, okay, it happened. No big deal. I can still teach her that this is not acceptable behavior. (Though that would be incredibly hypocritical of me, since she just SAW me play a game that does just that) The fact of the matter is, before I feel comfortable letting her play games like that, I need to make sure she has the emotional and intellectual framework that allows her to understand what exactly these things mean.
The studies have shown one thing in common: video game is a risk, it is a factor. It might not be permanent, it might not be so far impacting. But let's face it... why would I want to even want to allow that to persist even for a short while? Why the fuck would I be okay for my daughter to think violence towards another human being is acceptable even for a short while? Why would I WANT to have to do damage control? That is my primary reason for why I won't let my daughter play violent videogames. At least, not until I KNOW that she understands how to moderate the feelings and all that junk on her own. Want to play WoW? Fine, show me that you can exercise enough self-control so you won't let your grades drop, and your other responsibilities slip. Want to play Tekken? Fine, show me that you understand that this is not what most martial artists do, or that this is not a realistic portrayal of what happens to people when they get into a fist fight.
Think of it like this. You wouldn't let your teenage kid drive your car until you know said kid can drive your car responsibly and not go total the damn thing, right? You wouldn't want your kid having sex until he/she has enough emotional/safety knowledge towards relationship and sex, right? If all of these things are contingent upon knowledge, why shouldn't videogames?
Am I trying to pass the buck for social ills on video games? (or by extension, media in general) Fuck no. The responsibility still obviously lies with the parents. We all know this. But guys, this is exactly the kind of strawman that HALF of the posts in this thread is fighting about. Yes, we get idiots out there who are negligent parents and would do anything to pass the responsibility for being a bad parent off onto someone else. But I'd wager that most parents out there understand this far better than you'd think. If my daughter starts playing violent videogames at say, 5, and decides in kingdergarden the best way to get what she wants is to beat the living tar out of her classmates, that's COMPLETELY my own fault.
And I am certainly not going to say that video games need to be censored. Categorized? perhaps. Let's be real here. I like my own games too much to ever want to see someone pass a draconian censorship law that would make all of my entertainment blande and dull. But I'd be crazy to not keep a close eye on what my daughter grows up with.
Why precisely are the FBI so much more qualified to come to a reliable conclusion on a psychological issue than the American Psychological Association?HG131 said:
Heck yes it's an epidemic. I've personally witnessed supposedly fully grown men take the path which starts at rainbow six, and ends in a recruitment office. I'm also personally aware of what the end of that path looks like as my Dad is a Vietnam vet. (of course he had to rely on the more traditional propaganda way back thenThe3rdEye said:Wait... are you saying that you are fine with your nine year old kid playing violent M video games, but that you censor out the military recruitment propaganda because with all the other sources out there, failure to resist the temptation to enlist in the armed forces is some kind of epidemic?Jacob.pederson said:My kid (currently 9) was playing Unreal Tournament at age 4. So he has you beat thereIxionIndustries said:
And that's not even touching the entire "reducing someone to shiny red paste is fine, but a little nookie isn't" thing.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are not yourself a parent? Yes, young males reducing each other to red paste is perfectly normal. Way back in the 80's when our video games where still beeping and blooping at us, we followed up by heading outside to shoot each other with sticks, cardboard cut-outs, and occasionally plastic guns. Males are violent. Whether or not we have a game for that fantasy or not, we will act it out any chance we get.
Lastly, on the sexual censoring thing. Censoring sexual content for a nine-year-old, isn't a mater of prudishness, it's a matter of comfort. Sexual content makes my nine-year-old uncomfortable. He hides under a blanket when there is so much as kissing in Farscape. When he becomes mature enough to have interest in that type of narrative, then I will no longer censor it. This is not in any way intending to support the unhealthy christian cultural obsession with sexual censorship.
