Red Dead Redemption
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I haven't decided whether this is a great idea or a terrible one. I love the idea of having a factor that makes not becoming an outlaw a challenge, both because that's how it would be in real life and because it would give the more casual "I'm just here to have fun" players and the "I must prove my worth as a man" hardcore crowd their own distinct methods of play, as well as the opportunity to endlessly bicker about it on the Internet (which we all know both sides enjoy as much as the game itself). Whether this is the way to go about it or not, I don't know. And maybe we never will until someone actually tries it.
This is why I wish it were easier for people with interesting game ideas to break into the industry. I'd like to see more games come out that experiment. The way Mirror's Edge did. The results may end up being terrible, but they're learning experiences for the designers and the industry as a whole as to what players are and are not willing to put up with. Companies like Valve and Epic* have done the world a bigger favor than they know by making their engines relatively open and nearly free for personal use; it's just a shame neither one has built-in support for open world mapping*, since both of Yahtzee's epic game ideas so far have been open world games.
*So far as I know.
This is why I wish it were easier for people with interesting game ideas to break into the industry. I'd like to see more games come out that experiment. The way Mirror's Edge did. The results may end up being terrible, but they're learning experiences for the designers and the industry as a whole as to what players are and are not willing to put up with. Companies like Valve and Epic* have done the world a bigger favor than they know by making their engines relatively open and nearly free for personal use; it's just a shame neither one has built-in support for open world mapping*, since both of Yahtzee's epic game ideas so far have been open world games.
*So far as I know.
I think that having more than 2 (3, at most) meters to worry about in a game would become a pain in the ass. I agree on what you said about what needs fixing, but on how to fix it... Bullshit. What you suggested there sounds just like something you'd whine about in ZP, just like someone else already mentioned here.
Yes, commiting crimes should be more tempting and useful. This would be simply accomplished by making the money worth something and make the crimes the best way to gather income. And how to make the money worth a damn?
-Take away the replenishing health and Dead Eye so buying supplies would be vital.
-Don't give away free ammo on save points (that felt completely out of place for me) and make enemies drop only like 1-3 ammo when killed.
-Like Yahtzee said, the respawning horses need to go (again, a stupid feature), which would force you to either buy a new one, steal one, or tame one (the taming should also be harder, btw).
As for having something to worry about in the wilderness when your horse is dead, maybe moving without a horse could eventually attract bandits that would rob you or kill you, obviously. And when you die, you lose half of your money (with autosave, this of course wouldn't be avoided by simply loading your save >
).
Yes, commiting crimes should be more tempting and useful. This would be simply accomplished by making the money worth something and make the crimes the best way to gather income. And how to make the money worth a damn?
-Take away the replenishing health and Dead Eye so buying supplies would be vital.
-Don't give away free ammo on save points (that felt completely out of place for me) and make enemies drop only like 1-3 ammo when killed.
-Like Yahtzee said, the respawning horses need to go (again, a stupid feature), which would force you to either buy a new one, steal one, or tame one (the taming should also be harder, btw).
As for having something to worry about in the wilderness when your horse is dead, maybe moving without a horse could eventually attract bandits that would rob you or kill you, obviously. And when you die, you lose half of your money (with autosave, this of course wouldn't be avoided by simply loading your save >
).
I suppose, though it was very odd to see people all around me dying of dehydration and sun storke and such while you can run around and do whatever... Perhaps a system where you must drink water three times a day, five at absolute most. I would run into little campsites all over and be invited to sit at them, but they never served a purpose... Maybe if sitting at one had the others offer you food and water...Fattimus said:
I do know there was a massive amount of time between missions where you'd ride for a while, but I lvoed how spread out it was.
Best opening sentence ever.
"In GTA, gaining a wanted level was this constant occupational hazard that came of doing the standard activities required of missions or just from being too incautious when acquiring the all-important transport, and escaping from the cops was an exciting challenge as you weaved around oncoming traffic and took odd turns to throw them off."
And that's a very good point.
The proposed solution is certainly interesting, but it would have to be employed carefully in order to work out as a net positive. We've seen this sort of thing get screwed up before.
"In GTA, gaining a wanted level was this constant occupational hazard that came of doing the standard activities required of missions or just from being too incautious when acquiring the all-important transport, and escaping from the cops was an exciting challenge as you weaved around oncoming traffic and took odd turns to throw them off."
And that's a very good point.
The proposed solution is certainly interesting, but it would have to be employed carefully in order to work out as a net positive. We've seen this sort of thing get screwed up before.
I totally agree with the idea of a survival meter. One of the great things about Fallout was the idea you were surviving in that wilderness. Some people at work have said to me what's the point of pretending to be somewhere worse than you are now? My reply is that 1. I don't get to shoot monsters and you can feel challenged by a need to survive without the danger of really needing to and 2. I live in Liverpool so the irradiated wasteland of Washington isn't in fact worse.
Give it the stalker style of hunger , but add thirst too. In stalker you don't get a bar, you got a little icon. It prevents players from becoming OCD and filling it up every chance they have, and it makes it a lot more interesting when you aren't hungry until you're hungry.
"I'll just walk across- Oh Shit."
"I'll just walk across- Oh Shit."
Wow a food/water meter is a SHIT idea. They're adding that to Fallout 3. WEEEE! Instead of shooting people and completing missions I'll crawl around in the sewers trying to find rats I can gobble down and instead of trading for a scope for my rifle I'll spend all my cast in non-contaminated water. Great, hurray realism. Now all we need is the character to limp all game because it was shot in the foot in the first five minutes, or the whole scenario becomes 2d because I ducked too fast behind cover and scratched my cornea. Want to heal? Park your character in the hospital for two weeks, real time. No guarantees either, that leg might have to come off, and you better hope the next mission has plenty of ramps.
No.
No.
Sounds good actually, I really do like to do a bit of roleplaying in RDR and having to eat, etc. would be pretty interesting, as long as it wasn't obtrusive. The player should never have to stop mid-fight to grab a drink.
I don't agree though about not needing to break the law being boring. I for one found it quite refreshing that I could play as a good guy, (albeit a horrifically murderous one) and still enjoy myself, after all I've played the bad guy plenty times in other games, usually out of sheer boredom. In RDR I can actually play at being an elusive lawbringer, riding out to bring in bounties and defending the town from the occasional randomly generated criminal. Plus the police where just enough of a problem with the bounty system and all that I rarely went on a crime spree without carefully considering the consequences of my actions. Except for when it came to card players, cheating bastards, blackjack in particular can be unreal at times, which makes it all the more satisfying when you up and blow the smug smirk off of the card dealer's face, regardless of the consequences.
Where was I? Right, right, the food and drink thing. I think it could work, maybe it could be tied to the fame stat, if you were well known enough then people might give you free food, drinks, rooms, etc. out of either fear or respect, depending on your honour.
Also, the respawning horse thing. The first time my horse died out in the wilderness I felt a mixture of exhilaration and fear. There I was, far from civilization, vulnerable to predators and bandits alike. Would I dare try to hoof it back to the nearest town? Would I lay in wait, killing the next traveler I saw and stealing him horse, even if it would stain my own self imposed good guy image? Would I try to lasso and break in a new horse using nothing but a lasso, my wits, and the element of surprise? Then I absentmindedly whistled and my magical, reincarnating horse trotted up, thus ruining the drama of the situation and causing me to drearily ride back into town to be cheated by a slick card player who I would promptly kill.
Also, while I don't agree with the idea of non-regenerating health and Dead-Eye, I like the idea of health that would regenerate to a degree but still require medical supplements to get back to full. But a gunslinger shouldn't have non-regenerating Dead-Eye, sure unlimited Dead-Eye would make the game too easy, but it manages to regenerate at the perfect speed for me. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense if a hardened badass had to stop a take a swig of a magic potion every time he used Dead-Eye.
Wow, long post.
I don't agree though about not needing to break the law being boring. I for one found it quite refreshing that I could play as a good guy, (albeit a horrifically murderous one) and still enjoy myself, after all I've played the bad guy plenty times in other games, usually out of sheer boredom. In RDR I can actually play at being an elusive lawbringer, riding out to bring in bounties and defending the town from the occasional randomly generated criminal. Plus the police where just enough of a problem with the bounty system and all that I rarely went on a crime spree without carefully considering the consequences of my actions. Except for when it came to card players, cheating bastards, blackjack in particular can be unreal at times, which makes it all the more satisfying when you up and blow the smug smirk off of the card dealer's face, regardless of the consequences.
Where was I? Right, right, the food and drink thing. I think it could work, maybe it could be tied to the fame stat, if you were well known enough then people might give you free food, drinks, rooms, etc. out of either fear or respect, depending on your honour.
Also, the respawning horse thing. The first time my horse died out in the wilderness I felt a mixture of exhilaration and fear. There I was, far from civilization, vulnerable to predators and bandits alike. Would I dare try to hoof it back to the nearest town? Would I lay in wait, killing the next traveler I saw and stealing him horse, even if it would stain my own self imposed good guy image? Would I try to lasso and break in a new horse using nothing but a lasso, my wits, and the element of surprise? Then I absentmindedly whistled and my magical, reincarnating horse trotted up, thus ruining the drama of the situation and causing me to drearily ride back into town to be cheated by a slick card player who I would promptly kill.
Also, while I don't agree with the idea of non-regenerating health and Dead-Eye, I like the idea of health that would regenerate to a degree but still require medical supplements to get back to full. But a gunslinger shouldn't have non-regenerating Dead-Eye, sure unlimited Dead-Eye would make the game too easy, but it manages to regenerate at the perfect speed for me. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense if a hardened badass had to stop a take a swig of a magic potion every time he used Dead-Eye.
Wow, long post.
The survival thing sounds awful, I usually hate it when they implement systems like that in games. The horse recalling thing though I do agree is a problem, and would have made for a more interesting game if you had to nick a horse if you got stuck out in the middle of nowhere.