[Relationship-topic] Do women take the initiative in starting a relationship?

[DoctorObviously]

To put this scenario ridiculously short, I've met somebody about four months ago and developed feelings for her. About two weeks ago I've made these feelings known to her. She was very flattered by it, telling me that "it certainly doesn't leave me cold.". Because she really dislikes talking about deep feelings, there was a slight crack in her voice. She did say that she's still in the building of a stable life (working hours, hobby's and whatnot) and that she need a lot of time to let a relationship such as this build, obviously.

EDIT: Context on question 3. A good friend has told me that her emotional crack really bothers him. He doesn't really believe in the concept of 'tears of happiness'. However, my counter-argument was that she hasn't rejected me on a text message or e-mail since, and we have seen each other multiple times since those two weeks (with success) and already have a next 'date' planned.

My questions are:

1) How much time can you give to a person in this kind of scenario, should I even paste a number on it?

2a) Should I take a complete back seat when it comes to moving this relationship forward? In a sense, I've shot all my bullets and there is nothing I can do now, right?

2b) Do women even ever take the reins when it comes to relationships or is it just a fairy tale that all men should take the charge?

Side question: 3) When I told her, were a couple of tears -not waterfalls- an indicator of failure or success?

 

[Ryleh]

1) Depends how badly you want that person.

2a) You could always broach the subject, or offer to take her to a movie or something connotative of romance and see what happens.

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

 

[DoctorObviously]

1) Depends how badly you want that person.

2a) You could always broach the subject, or offer to take her to a movie or something connotative of romance and see what happens.

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

Thanks for your response! I've put one more little side question in my original post.

 

[Hagi]

1) Until you lose interest or get tired of waiting, you've no obligation to her at the moment beyond basic honesty. While you're interested and having fun with her, wait. If you lose interest or start getting frustrated, tell her so and move on.

2a) Don't ever take a complete back-seat. Relationships are always about interaction and something you do together. But do keep it casual for now. Just try to set up fun stuff to do together, without it being overly serious or romantical. I'd say flirty is good, candle-lit dinners are bad for now. Just because you've shot all your bullets doesn't mean you can't get in a few good punches to keep in with your love is war analogy.

2b) I firmly believe healthy relationships are all about interaction. If it can really be said that one partner is taking the reins then I think you're doing it wrong. Sure, someone has to make the first move but after that there should be initiative to keep it going from both sides. The moment the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth etc. moves are all coming from the same side I'd draw the natural conclusion that either the other party isn't interested or isn't ready. Either way, break it off and find someone who is.

EDIT: 3) I'd say minor success. You don't get emotional over someone you don't care about. It's safe to say she at least seems to somewhat care about you. But it's still only a single moment, not really enough to draw solid conclusions from. Just keep interacting with her in a way that's natural and satisfying for both of you, don't suddenly stop moving forward if you don't want to but don't force it either, going slow isn't quite the same as standing still. Should what's natural and satisfying for you ever start to greatly differ with what it's for her, well then you've got your answer.

 

[DoctorObviously]

Post

Thank you for your kind response and your quick edit. I must make a weird impression, putting these kinds of questions on the internet. It's just that relationships are such a vast, unexplored realm for me that I sometimes really don't know what to do, so thanks!

 

[Ryleh]

Side question 3: Probably confusion or more complicated circumstances that you don't know about.

Also, in relation to 2a & b: Some friends of mine just got married, and in their instance, the guy was acquainted with the girl for about a year before they started dating. And when they did she just kept turning him down and he just kept persisting. It got to the point where he had to take her out to several fancy dinners, but in the end she warmed to him and viola. Mortgages and babies and shit. Not my style, but it obviously does work.

 

[DoctorObviously]

Post

I can give the answer of how to proceed but I need to know one key thing first, and that's if you have you slept with her?

No, I haven't. When I told her how I felt, it was in her car, and I didn't give her a kiss because one, I didn't dare. Two: Reaching out to her in the car is hilariously awkward. Three: The purpose of me telling her the truth was just that, telling her how I felt. I was certain the results were going to land me a rejection. I wanted to tell her, so my mind would've been filtered a bit.

 

[Ryleh]

deep down a woman sometimes just needs a good seeing to before she can accept someone on those other levels.

I gather you're speaking from experience but not all women are like this. Also "a good seeing to" makes it sound like casually doing the hoovering on the weekend or something.

 

[Ryleh]

Of course there'll be exceptions, but from experience I've known women go from friends to obsessive lovers after sleeping with them. Talking things through has it's place, but sometimes you just need to act, and I think that's where this chap is at. He just needs to take her and make her his. It might not work, but waiting around would be worse IMO.

Lol, "a good seeing to" is just a local term. Basically showing her a good time and making her feel both vulnerable and safe at the same time.

I was about to argue but reading your comment brought about vivid recollections of friends and flatmates' former girlfriends. Le sigh. Needless to say though, they're generally not the keeper type... the ones who get obsessive anyway I mean.

 

[DoctorObviously]

The majority are, simply because of their biology. Women develop an attachment to men after sleeping with them, it's just in their genes and make up as much as it is for a bloke to relax after sex and have a few minutes of mental clarity too.

Of course there'll be exceptions, but from experience I've known women go from friends to obsessive lovers after sleeping with them. Talking things through has it's place, but sometimes you just need to act, and I think that's where this chap is at. He just needs to take her and make her his. It might not work, but waiting around would be worse IMO.

Lol, "a good seeing to" is just a local term. Basically showing her a good time and making her feel both vulnerable and safe at the same time.

I've been following what you said for a while, and I'm glad you do take this seriously, instead of most forumgoers who would write a comment just to write a comment. You may make a very good point. Again, relationships and the mind of the opposite sex is not my strong feature. When it comes to emotional intelligence, I am very, very dumb. But that's not my fault. Don't see me as a McFly, either, where I panick at the sight of an attractive person. I'm just very cautious and thought I was being very brave to tell her how I felt.

I think my best course of action is to grant her wishes (stable life first, let time pass) first and hope she makes the first move? Wouldn't it be unfair if I have to come forward all the time?

 

[Hagi]

I've been following what you said for a while, and I'm glad you do take this seriously, instead of most forumgoers who would write a comment just to write a comment. You may make a very good point. Again, relationships and the mind of the opposite sex is not my strong feature. When it comes to emotional intelligence, I am very, very dumb. But that's not my fault. Don't see me as a McFly, either, where I panick at the sight of an attractive person. I'm just very cautious and thought I was being very brave to tell her how I felt.

I think my best course of action is to grant her wishes (stable life first, let time pass) first and hope she makes the first move? Wouldn't it be unfair if I have to come forward all the time?

If I might interject,

don't waste time worrying on how 'women' are 'wired' or how 'men' should 'act'. It's all just silly guesswork based on hugely varied personal experiences, we've got serious trouble figuring out exactly which genes cause obvious fatal diseases and how all of that works exactly, running into countless exceptions and complications every time some absolute statement is made. Behavior is of incredibly increased complexity, so if someone claims to know how a gender or person is ' wired' they're lying. We don't know. We can guess, we can hypothesize, we can build expansive models potentially explaining all human behavior based on just a 'few' assumptions here and a 'few' more there. The only truth is that we don't yet know. We don't know exactly where the influences of gender end and those of culture begin. We don't know how much exactly is nature and how much is nurture.

And to add, it doesn't even freaking matter when it comes to relationship. See, it's not about you being the hypothetically perfect man for the biologically average women based on a certain theory. It's about finding a gal you like as she is and her liking you as you are.

The question you should ask is not should you have sex with her as soon as possible. The question is do you want to have sex with her as soon as possible. The question isn't if you should be the dominant partner in charge. The question is do you want to be the dominant partner in charge. Just have your relationship as you want to have it. It doesn't matter how women may or may not potentially be wired. What matters is finding out what you personally truly find important in a single woman and then finding one who has those attributes and who's able to appreciate yours. Whether or not she is or isn't biologically wired as countless theories claim she should be is utterly irrelevant, all that matters is whether or not you like her and whether or not she likes you.

Don't start doing shit you don't genuinely feel just for the sake of some random pseudo-scientific theory with grand aspirations to explain human behavior based on a few simple, easy to understand points ( hint: if human behavior was that simple you wouldn't be asking for advice ). Just act as comes naturally to you and in a way that you genuinely enjoy living your life and find a gal you can enjoy doing so with together.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Take her out, have a good time with her, make your move. You don't necessarily have to sleep with her there and then (bonus if you do tho), but be a man and make her mind up for her. It's all part of being the dominant party.

Ew.

OP: I wouldn't try to push her. That can be really unattractive. If I told a guy that I needed time to get my shit together before I commit myself to any kind of relationship and he kept pushing me, I'd be really put off. She's obviously said this to you for a reason and she seems to be staying completely honest with you, so I would respect that as much as possible.


You've told her how you feel and she knows what you want so the ball is in her court. Women aren't just passive things waiting to be convinced into a relationship. If she wants to pursue a relationship with you, she will. You've intiated the process by telling her that you're interested and that's all you can really do.


Give her the time she needs to make up her mind and other than that, keep it casual. Keep seeing her, by all means, but neither of you have signed up for anything so try not to worry about it too much.

If the waiting is bothering you too much, then I would just try to move on. You can't wait around forever but you can't try to push her into making a decision either.

 

[Stasisesque]

Take her out, have a good time with her, make your move. You don't necessarily have to sleep with her there and then (bonus if you do tho), but be a man and make her mind up for her. It's all part of being the dominant party.

This is vile.

I don't need anyone to "make my mind up" for me. Ugh.

Edit:

OP: I wouldn't try to push her. That can be really unattractive. If I told a guy that I needed time to get my shit together before I commit myself to any kind of relationship and he kept pushing me, I'd be really put off. She's obviously said this to you for a reason and she seems to be staying completely honest with you, so I would respect that as much as possible.


You've told her how you feel and she knows what you want so the ball is in her court. Women aren't just passive things waiting to be convinced into a relationship. If she wants to pursue a relationship with you, she will. You've intiated the process by telling her that you're interested and that's all you can really do.


Give her the time she needs to make up her mind and other than that, keep it casual. Keep seeing her, by all means, but neither of you have signed up for anything so try not to worry about it too much.

If the waiting is bothering you too much, then I would just try to move on. You can't wait around forever but you can't try to push her into making a decision either.

Exactly this. Exactly what I would have said had the previous posts not made me want to vomit.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

1) I don't. Fuck waiting, you have better stuff to do.

2) a) Again, no backseat. She's been polite about not wanting anything right now, move along.

2) b) I think they do, yes.

3) I have no idea, this would depend exclusively on the person and the context.

I can't stress this enough though: you opened up, you were 100% frank, she said NO because whatever - as she is entitled to - and that's about it.

deep down a woman sometimes just needs a good seeing to before she can accept someone on those other levels.

I gather you're speaking from experience but not all women are like this. Also "a good seeing to" makes it sound like casually doing the hoovering on the weekend or something.

Actually it reminds me of "perhaps they need a good talking to" from... you know...

 

[Hazy]

My questions are:

1) How much time can you give to a person in this kind of scenario, should I even paste a number on it?

2a) Should I take a complete back seat when it comes to moving this relationship forward? In a sense, I've shot all my bullets and there is nothing I can do now, right?

2b) Do women even ever take the reins when it comes to relationships or is it just a fairy tale that all men should take the charge?

Side question: 3) When I told her, were a couple of tears -not waterfalls- an indicator of failure or success?

1. Keep it on the backburner, but by no means should you make that your priority. Go out and meet other girls, but keep interacting with her.

I say this because women use that "I'm just not ready" phrase as a way to let you down lightly (more on that in the spoiler below) but it does more harm than good.

2a. Girls like this are tough, because as a man, you're supposed to be the one calling the shots. But when they're shy, that can also work as a detriment. Schedule a lunch date or something, try to coax her out of her shell, but just be mindful of how aggressive you are in your pursuit.

2b. Yes, but that's still pretty rare.

3. Depends on her emotional stability, which doesn't seem to be too sturdy from what you've told us. It seems to be pretty good though. The big thing now is not getting clingy. I always tell my friends "They've already got a pussy, they don't need another."

I wouldn't worry though. It sounds like she's into you.

"Thanks for waiting though!"​

I'm leaving my "Hazy's Handy Dandy Avoiding the Friendzone" guide below.

Spoiler: Hazy's Handy Dandy Avoiding the Friendzone

There are several reasons why people end up in the friend zone, but the one I hear about most often is this:
you've tipped the scales of attraction vs comfort to the comfort side. They have become too comfortable with you, and as such, you are no longer deemed "relationship material." You become like a brother. Or a lamp.

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, leave them wanting more.

The friend zone sucks, there's no doubt about that, and while you can look up all of the advice in the world on how to avoid it, it pales in comparison to the actual experience you get from finding yourself in there.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.