[Relationship-topic] Do women take the initiative in starting a relationship?

[Strazdas]

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

This makes me sad. Due to my shyness (im quite the opposite in rela life than on the net) i will never make the first move and would highly value a girl that would. but due to thinking like this the chacnes of this will be severely lowered. sigh.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

Take her out, have a good time with her, make your move. You don't necessarily have to sleep with her there and then (bonus if you do tho), but be a man and make her mind up for her. It's all part of being the dominant party.

This is vile.

I don't need anyone to "make my mind up" for me. Ugh.

Edit:

OP: I wouldn't try to push her. That can be really unattractive. If I told a guy that I needed time to get my shit together before I commit myself to any kind of relationship and he kept pushing me, I'd be really put off. She's obviously said this to you for a reason and she seems to be staying completely honest with you, so I would respect that as much as possible.


You've told her how you feel and she knows what you want so the ball is in her court. Women aren't just passive things waiting to be convinced into a relationship. If she wants to pursue a relationship with you, she will. You've intiated the process by telling her that you're interested and that's all you can really do.


Give her the time she needs to make up her mind and other than that, keep it casual. Keep seeing her, by all means, but neither of you have signed up for anything so try not to worry about it too much.

If the waiting is bothering you too much, then I would just try to move on. You can't wait around forever but you can't try to push her into making a decision either.

Exactly this. Exactly what I would have said had the previous posts not made me want to vomit.

Thanks for both saying things better than I could. Look, I'd be friends with her. You know, treat her like a human being, not a project, not something that needs a specific set of moves input in order to receive sex and love. She's a person. So, maybe just treat her like anyone you enjoy spending time with. Go for group activities, take her out fun places, watch action movies with her, whatever. It sounds like she just doesn't need intimate, intense dates yet.

I'm a chick, and my man made friends with me by hanging out with me and my group of friends. He made sure he was present but he didn't push the whole relationship thing until we had spent some time just making friends. And had I asked for more time, I'm sure he wouldn't have walked away completely from me. We had a friendship, and that was great. Then when we were ready, it naturally turned into love.

And Klagnut, your sentiments might sound different from what you're actually trying to say, but as I perceive it, you're advocating he sleep with his girl in order to make up her mind for her? What are women to you? Machines where you put attention in and get relationship out? Ew.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

but deep down a woman sometimes just needs a good seeing to before she can accept someone on those other levels.
Take her out, have a good time with her, make your move. You don't necessarily have to sleep with her there and then (bonus if you do tho), but be a man and make her mind up for her. It's all part of being the dominant party.

Wow. Way to sound like a date rapist.

Note: I'm not saying you are one. Just that what you said there makes you sound like one. You... kind of temper your words in later posts, but you clearly have an unhealthy view of male/female relationships.

Anyway, moving on to the OP:

1) How much time can you give to a person in this kind of scenario, should I even paste a number on it?

As much as she needs. If you're serious about her, then give her time.

2a) Should I take a complete back seat when it comes to moving this relationship forward? In a sense, I've shot all my bullets and there is nothing I can do now, right?

From what you've already said, you have already moved things forward some. You are seeing her in a date-like fashion. Anyone who didn't address the fashion that you and she are now dating has missed this very important point - she hasn't rejected you, she hasn't "friendzoned" you (don't even get me started on that one), and you aren't in a holding pattern - you are dating.

So keep dating. I mean, at this point, what is even being delayed? You're going out on dates, which is how relationships begin.

2b) Do women even ever take the reins when it comes to relationships or is it just a fairy tale that all men should take the charge?

First off, you're making a mistake by asking if "women" ever do something. We don't have a rule book - every woman is different.

To answer your question, lots of women take the reins when it comes to relationships. Lesbians kinda have to, after all, since otherwise they wouldn't date at all. And no, one doesn't "play the man" - unless they're into that particular kink.

Does that mean the woman you're interested will? I have no idea. I haven't met her. I haven't talked to her.

However, I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for here. You and she are dating. You are in a romantic relationship already. I will admit to being unclear on exactly what you and she are "waiting" on at this point.

Side question: 3) When I told her, were a couple of tears -not waterfalls- an indicator of failure or success?

Since you're dating her, I'd say success.

OP, I have to ask - what exactly is your issue at this point? You asked the girl out. She said "I can't really be in a relationship right now" ... and then you started going out on dates. That is a relationship - the start of one anyway. So either you and she have already moved past her comment, or she means a "serious" relationship, meaning that she wants to keep things light and casual for the moment.

If that is your concern... why? Go, have fun with the girl. Be romantic, but in a fun way. Show her a good time. You don't need to make things serious immediately - have fun just being together.

Do you happen to know how she feels about tickling? That is something that is both fun and intimate. I wouldn't try too much until you know her policy - some people love tickle fights, other people will punch you in your face for trying - but it is a very fun, casual method of increasing intimacy. I once dated someone who liked to tickle as a prelude to making out. I had to resist the face-punching (I do not like tickling).

I digress.

Go. Have fun with her.

Oh - have you and she kissed yet? You said it didn't happen in the car, but has it happened elsewhere?

If not - try that. At the end of a date, when you're saying goodnight, give her a kiss. That's the traditional time and it's romantic. If you're dropping her off via car, park the car and get out to say goodnight (don't try to do it across the gearshift).

If so... again, what are you worrying about? Making out is fun - so have fun making out with her. Good times.

Edit: Also, everything that Color Scientist said is 100% gold.

 

[Colour Scientist]

This is vile.

Ew.

Wow. Way to sound like a date rapist.

Ew.

Haha, I think that's a pretty unanimous female opinion on that option.

 

[grey_space]

1) you can't paste a number on it. Every relationship and person is different. But I would advise that you date/hang out with other girls and as soon as you beginning to feel even a little impatient or frustrated with things with your potential lady, do something about it. Otherwise there is a danger of you becoming bitter or her just taking your feelings for granted.

2a) You've stated how you feel fair enough, but like I mentioned above that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the company of other women/men/people. And if you let her know that fact in a subtle way that will let her know that there's no pressure on her. It will also give you a good perspective on things. The ball kinda is in her court to a certain extent, but if you wanted to invite her to a few group social events with no strings attached, I couldn't see how she's object or feel too claustrophobic. Feel free to compliment her every now and again in a very non-skeevy way? If not overdone its a good way of letting her know how you still like her without it getting too 'heavy' for either of you. My Girlfriend eventually moved in with me because everyday of our relationship since we first hooked up I texted and told her she was beautiful. Now, we were together already, but you see what I mean...

2b) Dude. Get this into your head. Women ALWAYS take the reins. Weather men realise it or not. You may think that you initiated something physical yourself but I assure you that she will have decided whether it was ok for you to try it about half an hour beforehand. I have never chosen my girlfriends. They have always chosen me. Sometimes without me even realising it until too late

3) I would say success. Unless she was laughing. Tears of laughter would be...bad You see I don't know the girl but she seems to be quite reserved and shy of emotion so from what you are telling me I would have to say that this can only be a mildly positive thing.

Good luck!

 

[Hochmeister]

1) Depends entirely on your and her situation. If you really want her in particular keeping at it for months or even years might be worth it, but it also depends on how serious and long term her issues are. The problem is that there's a chance you'll waste a lot of time on her and miss out on other opportunities. It sounds like you're in a quasi-relationship now, so I'd let that develop for a while, assess how you feel about the situation, and re-check her feelings on the matter.

2a) No, you should still try to move it forward, just make sure to give her some extra room and that she shows interest in building or maintaining your relationship as well.

2b) I'm sure they exist, but in my experience are extremely rare.

3) Your guess is probably better than mine.

Your situation reminds me a bit of my last relationship; met a woman who I liked, asked her out, got semi-accepted. After a couple months of going out I realized that I was the only one really putting effort into our relationship. Talked to her about it and got a "wait a bit/not serious right not" response. Waited some more and when nothing changed broke it off. I don't regret the time I spent with her, but am much happier now that it's over.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

My point is that I feel this chap shouldn't stand around and do nothing if he feels this way, and that - from experience and history - women tend to open up easier to men they have a psychical bond with.

Your logic is backwards.

Women tend to be more romantically available for men they are physically attracted to. IE, the sex didn't make the woman more open to a relationship, her attraction did. The sex was a symptom of that same attraction, not its cause.

For example:

Woman A finds Man B attractive. Woman A indicates (via body language) this attraction. Man B sleeps with Woman A. Afterwards, Man B and Woman A become romantically involved.

Woman C does not find Man D attractive, but she finds him pleasant. She is willing to hang around with Man D and have fun, but does not indicate any interest in sleeping with him or dating him. Thus Man D does not sleep with Woman C and they remain friends.

Man B had sex and got a relationship while Man D did not and did not, thus your observations. However, the sex was not the deciding factor - the woman's initial attraction was. This is why the "Friend Zone" is a myth - because it assumes that being labeled "friend" is somehow caused by the man making a mistake rather than by the man simply not being an attractive partner to the woman.

You made it sound like the sex would somehow manipulate the woman into a relationship. That isn't going to happen. And it makes us sound like some sort of sex-emotion vending machines, at best. Put the cock in and love comes out.

....

... wow, that was a sentence. I'd delete it and rephrase, but I'm too amused by it, so the horrible sentence stands.

Ahem. Anyway...

Having read the rest of your post this is what I was basically getting at.

Really? Because your original post really sounded like your advice was "fuck her til she loves you". Hence my date-rapey comment.

 

[DoctorObviously]

I will try to answer some questions so to give you guys a little more insight. Not all questions, but those that I feel matter most. I just started out with a couple of simple questions and this somehow turned into a confusing mess. However:

And it makes us sound like some sort of sex-emotion vending machines, at best. Put the cock in and love comes out.

Having read the rest of your post this is what I was basically getting at.

Really? Because your original post really sounded like your advice was "fuck her til she loves you". Hence my date-rapey comment.

is one of the most amusing things I have read in a long time. Let's get to it.

To

.

: I have read your posts in full and I must congratulate you in being this succesful in relationships. If these methods work for you, then, by all means, more power to you! As for me, however, I am not so fortunate. Life is already more difficult for me than it is for others. Over the past seven years I have gotten three 'No's', never had a 'Yes' and this is my first: "It certainly doesn't leave me cold." and I attribute that answer to her shyness and fear of emotions. Because life can never give me a simple straightforward answer, I have NEVER, EVER been in this situation before. This is a very closed person that I cannot break open on command. To me, that means all I can do is indeed wait for her to get a stable life and just plain lots of time. I'll try to see her weekly, and we each take turns to invite each other. There is nothing more can do, as Colour Scientist put it best.

"If DoctorObviously does nothing but wait and talk I don;t think he'll get anywhere."

What exactly do you suggest I do? Go to the movies and... what? Kiss her? You don't ask a gardener to build a rocket. To you, I must sound like the most dull bachelor in the history of ever.

Even if your suggested method would work with this kind of person, I still wouldn't do it because it just isn't how I am. It's too direct. Being the dominant, fearless Alpha male doesn't interest me. I told her the blunt truth; that I loved her, and how childish and stupid that may sound to everybody here, that took a great deal of strength from me. I didn't touch her. The word 'Rapist' has already lost it's meaning by enough children on Facebook, thank you very much. If being myself would result in losing her, because I wasn't, in your wording, 'seeing to' her, then... *shrugs*. Sorry for being too considerate, I guess?

The problem is that everybody here lacks four months of knowledge of her personality and that's nobody's fault. So this is why I do appreciate you taking the time to stick around and read what's on this thread.

To

.

First, what's a holding pattern?

"I will admit to being unclear on exactly what you and she are "waiting" on at this point."

As I described in my original post, she made it clear that she needed time and wanted to have a "stable" life first, she has just graduated and is furiously looking for a job as teacher. What is your definition of dating, though? Would you call what me and her are doing right now dating?

"what exactly is your issue at this point?"

I was just looking for simple advice, in the hope that it would clear my head a bit. I just don't know what to do in a situation like this. I know so little about this stuff. There is no real guide I can just look to for instructions. Every single person is so frustratingly different that I constantly have to think differently for them. It's maddening.

"Oh - have you and she kissed yet? You said it didn't happen in the car, but has it happened elsewhere?"

Nope. Just like Klagnut you talk about this as if going out to buy bread. Colour Scientist seems to be the only one who I agree with most.

 

[FalloutJack]

1) How much time can you give to a person in this kind of scenario, should I even paste a number on it?

2a) Should I take a complete back seat when it comes to moving this relationship forward? In a sense, I've shot all my bullets and there is nothing I can do now, right?

2b) Do women even ever take the reins when it comes to relationships or is it just a fairy tale that all men should take the charge?

Side question: 3) When I told her, were a couple of tears -not waterfalls- an indicator of failure or success?

{1} I can't put a number on it. My girlfriend and I were...complicated. She had had relationship issues that I particularly hated her ex for, and I didn't want to possibly screw up what I had with her already, which was a good friendship of years. So, I made a few passing remarks in a joking fashion, testing waters without actually risking much. Results were dubious, nothing definite. Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, in this case. But I let her go abnout her life. It was healthier for her. However, there came a time where if I didn't say something, I'd lose her and regret it for the rest of my life. So, I took a chance and it worked. Later, I found out she'd been deciding between me and a friend of mine, so you never really know.

{2A} When a gunslinger's out of bullets, he's still a gunslinger. What you have to do is find new ammo and aim for a different target. The thing you want is to be able to be there when you're needed the most. Shoot straight, don't waiver, and when the time is right, you'll hit the target you want or know that it was never in your grasp for sure. Take the above answer in reference to that. I felt I wasn't even ready when I spoke my true feelings, but there just wasn't any more time.

{2B} If anything's a flipping story, it's the way mine ended. All true, but sounding a bit hokey when you think about it. So, I guess what you take from that is that the stereotype and the divergence FROM that stereotype both happen. Some women like to take charge, others don't want to, and some...are complex and want to be taken so that they're affirmed that they are in turn needed. I can't tell you which one this is or if there's another kind I'm not even considering.

{3} She may have been surprised to be wanted. You've made your intentions known. You don't have the power of the same impact later. Mine came at a very sensitive moment, but not everybody's gonna have those. My advice is from Answer One. Be there for her, someone to depend upon and confide in. Be a gentleman, don't look like you're reaching. I may have only my relationship to draw on for advice specifically on this topic, but I'm generally good FOR advice, as I have also uplifted low-self-esteemers, prevented suicides, and helped with harsh real-life decisions.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

As I described in my original post, she made it clear that she needed time and wanted to have a "stable" life first, she has just graduated and is furiously looking for a job as teacher. What is your definition of dating, though? Would you call what me and her are doing right now dating?

Perhaps I was confused - in your edit, you said you had your next date planned. I took that to mean you and she were going on dates.

If two people are going out on dates, they are dating. They may not be dating exclusively or seriously, but they are dating.

You didn't describe the exact nature of your dates, so I can't say if I consider what you are doing dating or not. Also, even if you did, it would really depend on the couple involved.

I was just looking for simple advice, in the hope that it would clear my head a bit. I just don't know what to do in a situation like this. I know so little about this stuff. There is no real guide I can just look to for instructions. Every single person is so frustratingly different that I constantly have to think differently for them. It's maddening.

Oh, I think you took a negative connotation from my comment that I did not intend. I didn't mean issue like a bad thing - I just wasn't sure what you were worried about. If you are going out on dates, then you are in a romantic relationship of some sort. It might be a very casual one, but if both you and she define what you are doing as dates, then you are in a relationship - however casual.

To me, that says she's interested. She needs time to get her life in order before she gets serious (so give it to her) but she wants to proceed.

Nope. Just like Klagnut you talk about this as if going out to buy bread. Colour Scientist seems to be the only one who I agree with most.

A kiss is far more casual than full sex. You mentioned "next date" so, again, I was uncertain what was involved.

In any case, if Color Scientist sounds good to you, then go with her advice. It is excellent advice.

My point about kissing is that taking things slowly can actually be a lot of fun. If you haven't kissed yet (and if she isn't ready) then don't rush into it. Enjoy whatever it is you are currently doing.

 

[aba1]

As I described in my original post, she made it clear that she needed time and wanted to have a "stable" life first, she has just graduated and is furiously looking for a job as teacher. What is your definition of dating, though? Would you call what me and her are doing right now dating?

Perhaps I was confused - in your edit, you said you had your next date planned. I took that to mean you and she were going on dates.

If two people are going out on dates, they are dating. They may not be dating exclusively or seriously, but they are dating.

You didn't describe the exact nature of your dates, so I can't say if I consider what you are doing dating or not. Also, even if you did, it would really depend on the couple involved.

I was just looking for simple advice, in the hope that it would clear my head a bit. I just don't know what to do in a situation like this. I know so little about this stuff. There is no real guide I can just look to for instructions. Every single person is so frustratingly different that I constantly have to think differently for them. It's maddening.

Oh, I think you took a negative connotation from my comment that I did not intend. I didn't mean issue like a bad thing - I just wasn't sure what you were worried about. If you are going out on dates, then you are in a romantic relationship of some sort. It might be a very casual one, but if both you and she define what you are doing as dates, then you are in a relationship - however casual.

To me, that says she's interested. She needs time to get her life in order before she gets serious (so give it to her) but she wants to proceed.

Nope. Just like Klagnut you talk about this as if going out to buy bread. Colour Scientist seems to be the only one who I agree with most.

A kiss is far more casual than full sex. You mentioned "next date" so, again, I was uncertain what was involved.

In any case, if Color Scientist sounds good to you, then go with her advice. It is excellent advice.

My point about kissing is that taking things slowly can actually be a lot of fun. If you haven't kissed yet (and if she isn't ready) then don't rush into it. Enjoy whatever it is you are currently doing.

I have had a few heated arguments with you in the past but what you said here is directly applicable to a similar situation I am in and has given me some great perspective and seems like great advice so thanks ^^.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I have had a few heated arguments with you in the past but what you said here is directly applicable to a similar situation I am in and has given me some great perspective and seems like great advice so thanks ^^.

Thanks! I'm glad to help!

... also, I can't remember what we argued about. Probably best you don't remind me so I can just head out with a smile on my face feeling awesome about my advice-giving powers. ^^

 

[aba1]

I have had a few heated arguments with you in the past but what you said here is directly applicable to a similar situation I am in and has given me some great perspective and seems like great advice so thanks ^^.

Thanks! I'm glad to help!

... also, I can't remember what we argued about. Probably best you don't remind me so I can just head out with a smile on my face feeling awesome about my advice-giving powers. ^^

Ahh I don't really remember the exact subject anyways I just remember it was the kinda argument where we were splitting hairs practically which is why I remember it happening. Anywho ya thanks for the advice I think it will help A LOT.

 

[Ryleh]

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

This makes me sad. Due to my shyness (im quite the opposite in rela life than on the net) i will never make the first move and would highly value a girl that would. but due to thinking like this the chacnes of this will be severely lowered. sigh.

Awwww no not at all! If a girl really wants you she'll find a way of getting things going, even if it's really subtle. That is unless you act so shy that you give the impression that you're not interested in her at all. I have a friend who had a crush on a chick for aaaaages, but he never even hinted at his feelings. She was in to him but she thought he didn't feel the same so she moved on and found someone else. As long as you make your feelings known she may just make that first move!

 

[Strazdas]

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

This makes me sad. Due to my shyness (im quite the opposite in rela life than on the net) i will never make the first move and would highly value a girl that would. but due to thinking like this the chacnes of this will be severely lowered. sigh.

Awwww no not at all! If a girl really wants you she'll find a way of getting things going, even if it's really subtle. That is unless you act so shy that you give the impression that you're not interested in her at all. I have a friend who had a crush on a chick for aaaaages, but he never even hinted at his feelings. She was in to him but she thought he didn't feel the same so she moved on and found someone else. As long as you make your feelings known she may just make that first move!

Thats kinda the thing. Yesterday i was sitting between two very good looking woman. what did i do? whip out my phone and watched a movie. i am unable to find a non-creepy way to make my feelings known.

 

[Ryleh]

2b) Some definitely do. I'm very picky so I like to select my men rather than them selecting me. Only trouble is that guys don't always respond well to girls making the first move, so I tend to make them think that they were in to me first. Jedi mind tricks and all that.

This makes me sad. Due to my shyness (im quite the opposite in rela life than on the net) i will never make the first move and would highly value a girl that would. but due to thinking like this the chacnes of this will be severely lowered. sigh.

Awwww no not at all! If a girl really wants you she'll find a way of getting things going, even if it's really subtle. That is unless you act so shy that you give the impression that you're not interested in her at all. I have a friend who had a crush on a chick for aaaaages, but he never even hinted at his feelings. She was in to him but she thought he didn't feel the same so she moved on and found someone else. As long as you make your feelings known she may just make that first move!

Thats kinda the thing. Yesterday i was sitting between two very good looking woman. what did i do? whip out my phone and watched a movie. i am unable to find a non-creepy way to make my feelings known.

Eeeerh, I kinda meant more like women you know rather than attractive strangers. If you don't know them well enough to start conversation then you probably don't know enough about them to make a move either.

 

[Auron225]

2b) I don't have an answer to that but it's a good question I've often wondered myself. I don't know of any relationships in which it happened due to the womans initiative - even if she wanted it happen just as much as the guy did.