I will say that it was good when humanity was in the dark ages, because it drove humanity to its limits for a good after life. However now adays, protests as we move forward are doing nothing but slowing human progress down...
Religion: is it for the good of mankind or not?
- Thread starter iggyus
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Oh goody. Another one of these threads. Seriously people, Atheists determined to let everyone know that religion is the cause of all the world's problems are just as bad as the religious zealots. This goes towards both sides of the argument:
You aren't clever, you aren't unique, you're just another person repeating the same thing thousands of others have mashed out angrily on their keyboards.
People are the problems, not religion in and of itself. For lack of a better example for the time being, South Park, hit the nail on the head. Even if all religion in the entire world is abolished, groups of people will still kill other groups. The only reason that most of the fanatics you hear about are religious is because they are the majority.
Let's picture two bags full of marbles, an Atheist bag and a Religion bag. The Religion bag has three (3) times as many marbles in it. Each marble has a 10% chance of being chipped. Let the chipped marbles represent the zealots, and the smooth marbles represent the normal, quiet people.
If you reach inside and remove all of the chipped marbles, naturally there will be more coming from the Religion bag, because there are more marbles overall. Not only that, but regardless of which bag you choose, if you rummage around inside, you will notice the chipped ones more often than the smooth. The fanatics stand out from the quiet, non-intrusive masses on both sides, because they scrape and irritate you.
Religion, for the most part, is generally based around being a nice person, doing nice stuff, etc. Ideally, Atheists and religious types should act the same to EVERYONE, regardless of personal beliefs. It makes no difference whether you are Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, anything. You should not judge others to be right or wrong. Who are you to decide what others should believe, and who is right?
You aren't clever, you aren't unique, you're just another person repeating the same thing thousands of others have mashed out angrily on their keyboards.
People are the problems, not religion in and of itself. For lack of a better example for the time being, South Park, hit the nail on the head. Even if all religion in the entire world is abolished, groups of people will still kill other groups. The only reason that most of the fanatics you hear about are religious is because they are the majority.
Let's picture two bags full of marbles, an Atheist bag and a Religion bag. The Religion bag has three (3) times as many marbles in it. Each marble has a 10% chance of being chipped. Let the chipped marbles represent the zealots, and the smooth marbles represent the normal, quiet people.
If you reach inside and remove all of the chipped marbles, naturally there will be more coming from the Religion bag, because there are more marbles overall. Not only that, but regardless of which bag you choose, if you rummage around inside, you will notice the chipped ones more often than the smooth. The fanatics stand out from the quiet, non-intrusive masses on both sides, because they scrape and irritate you.
Religion, for the most part, is generally based around being a nice person, doing nice stuff, etc. Ideally, Atheists and religious types should act the same to EVERYONE, regardless of personal beliefs. It makes no difference whether you are Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, anything. You should not judge others to be right or wrong. Who are you to decide what others should believe, and who is right?
Well certainly some atheists generally believe that, most do not. Please do not make such broad generalizations.Compatriot Block said:
Datalord said:
But do you need religion to give to charity?
Do you need religion to have a private school?
Religion in and of itself is not bad, neither is communism; But it's clear to anyone that both a religious theocracy, or a communist country are bad.
(Sorry for the double post)
Did you seriously just take that one tiny part of my post and try and act like it was my whole point?James Raynor said:
Humans will feel an instinctual drive to eliminate itself until its population becomes noticeably low.
While I don't agree that ridding the world of religion would stop us from killing one another, I have to assert my belief that it would be like removing the cork from the font of knowledge.
While I don't agree that ridding the world of religion would stop us from killing one another, I have to assert my belief that it would be like removing the cork from the font of knowledge.
Sorry, but I didn't feel like getting into an argument over it. I just thought I'd ask you not to make such a stereotype.Compatriot Block said:
I see Religion as laws for the past. lots of really bad stuff could've went down If there was no religion in, say the Roman Empire. It also used to serve as a way to unite people as a country or group. in that respect, religion can be great, but this also makes these groups disagree and eventually kill each other. I guess in some way, we owe the fact that we have civilization to the various religious practices
It is time for good idea, bad idea.
Religion
Good idea, religion being used to bring people together to find tranquility in this life and the after life.
Bad idea, religion using fear to force people into worrying solely on the afterlife, who is right and who is wrong, or controlling the government behind the scenes.
hmmmm, not quite the same charm as the Animaniacs had. Gotta work on that
Religion
Good idea, religion being used to bring people together to find tranquility in this life and the after life.
Bad idea, religion using fear to force people into worrying solely on the afterlife, who is right and who is wrong, or controlling the government behind the scenes.
hmmmm, not quite the same charm as the Animaniacs had. Gotta work on that
I'm going to ask you to go back and read my post again. Where I said that religious people do all the same stuff Atheists do. Please, go ahead. Seriously, it's right there. I repeated it like 3 times.James Raynor said:
Both groups act the same way.
You know i think for some people it is good. It gives some people a centre and a focus. some take it too far, but can't that be said about every facet of everything humanity is involved in?iggyus said:
I have no need for it myself, but i respect that some people have reason to have need for it.
Religion is a polarising factor for human kind. Like many other things it can do both good and bad.
For the good, it's produced some of the must stunning artwork (See Dali's The Christ Of St. John Of The Cross) and the most amazing architecture. We wouldn't have Gothic buildings without Christianity. Nor would we have the great temples of Islam or indeed any other group. Religion brings many different people together and gives them something other than survival to live for. Along with this comes a set of morals the basis of which is usually "Live together in peace and harmony." No-where in the 10 commandments for example does it say ANYTHING about it being okay to persecute and kill people. Instead, it suggests a few things which I think are quite reasonable in a wider society. Religion here, also gives a sort of enforcement for those laws. It brings out the best in some of us. Unfortunate indeed that it brings out the worst in others.
Religious wars and persecution have long been a plague upon people who want absolutely nothing to do with such things. This is often when people take religion far too much to heart and start using it for the sake of power. Power over those who don't follow their religion, power over those that do, it tends to have the same result either way. Another problem arises when there is the presumption that one cannot be moral without having a religious background. This is a sort of bigoted outlook which is unhelpful in the extreme.
So religion isn't particularly good or bad. However, I don't believe that with the power of reasoning and information we currently have it is altogether necessary. We don't need religion to teach morals it just makes that easier.
For the good, it's produced some of the must stunning artwork (See Dali's The Christ Of St. John Of The Cross) and the most amazing architecture. We wouldn't have Gothic buildings without Christianity. Nor would we have the great temples of Islam or indeed any other group. Religion brings many different people together and gives them something other than survival to live for. Along with this comes a set of morals the basis of which is usually "Live together in peace and harmony." No-where in the 10 commandments for example does it say ANYTHING about it being okay to persecute and kill people. Instead, it suggests a few things which I think are quite reasonable in a wider society. Religion here, also gives a sort of enforcement for those laws. It brings out the best in some of us. Unfortunate indeed that it brings out the worst in others.
Religious wars and persecution have long been a plague upon people who want absolutely nothing to do with such things. This is often when people take religion far too much to heart and start using it for the sake of power. Power over those who don't follow their religion, power over those that do, it tends to have the same result either way. Another problem arises when there is the presumption that one cannot be moral without having a religious background. This is a sort of bigoted outlook which is unhelpful in the extreme.
So religion isn't particularly good or bad. However, I don't believe that with the power of reasoning and information we currently have it is altogether necessary. We don't need religion to teach morals it just makes that easier.
Personally, I think that faith and belief can be good for a lot of people, who feel the need for guidance or support in a time of need (relative died or something similar), when they can't deal with it on their own.
However, the way religion is more often than not institutionalized and then used to enforce worldly power is one of the biggest scams in human history.
Also, when people think their faith is more "real" and "important" than other people's Human Rights is just bizarre.
So, to summarize:
Religion good, churches bad.
However, the way religion is more often than not institutionalized and then used to enforce worldly power is one of the biggest scams in human history.
Also, when people think their faith is more "real" and "important" than other people's Human Rights is just bizarre.
So, to summarize:
Religion good, churches bad.
Compatriot Block said:
Okay, the I will procede to pick apart your arguement.
Yes people will kill each other, but it won't be justifiable by religious means, which is typically the most common one.
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal
You also seem to come to the conclusion that atheists and religious people are both equally flawed percentage wise, this is just simply not true. There are many times more religious fanatics then atheist ones, and even many more times religious people kill other people then atheists kill other people.
Someone who believes creationism is true means we cannot say that there incorrect for having that belief?
There's nothing inherently wrong with religion and spirituality. The problems come when people start to argue about who is better and the get to fighting over it. In the end it largely depends on where you are in the world, how dogmatic you are, and whether or not you're willing to open your mind and coexist.
So, it's not so much religion ebing bad for mankind as mankind being bad for mankind. A bit of a paradox, but when you think about it it makes sense.
So, it's not so much religion ebing bad for mankind as mankind being bad for mankind. A bit of a paradox, but when you think about it it makes sense.
