Religion: is it for the good of mankind or not?

[SoonerMatt]

you know, private RELIGIOUS schools save millions for the government by education kids at no expense to the government, RELIGIOUS organizations donate millions to charity and do lots of charity work. and RELIGIONS spread morals involving goodwill towards man. If muslim extremists want to blow themselves up, don't use them to describe all religion and religious people. If there were crusades hundreds of years ago, do not use them to describe all religions and religious people.

YES, people have died for religion, but people have died for pretty much everything by this point. Religions do not ask members to kill themselves or others (except for small secluded cults and extreme religions)

How would all the athiests like it if i were to go around saying "Hitler went around killing millions in the name of his personal ATHIEST philosophy, all athiests are bad and will get us all killed in the end"

NEVER use old examples, or extremists to label a group

Hitler didn't have "atheist philosophy". Hell, if you're going to make a half assed historical example, take any of the big people from USSR. Which doesn't really make it more valid.

And morals? Really? I can agree with things like "don't kill". It makes sense in a working society. But guess what, these things existed way before religion. And in absense of religion, people don't magically turn berserk and start killing and stealing shit.

And some of the other "morals" are really bad and outdated. What about the whole "kill the homosexuals" thing in bible, or however it went? What about the whole "women are inferior to man and the primal cause of all evil! (the whole eve and adam thing)? What about a lot of other things that are clearly awful in the eyes of most people with a little bit of sense?

And that's just Christianity. Other religions are rarely better.

George Carlin put it best when he broke the Ten Commandments down to two: "Thou shall not be dishonest and thou shall try really, reeeeeeally hard not to kill people."

 

[James Raynor]

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Just wait for everything to be explained by science.

Science is religion. I'm not saying, "You place your faith in existing theories....blah blah blah", but I am saying that maybe God (the creator/supreme being/grand Poobah) uses scientific law to act and shape the universe. Would that be so hard to accept? God made man and all the other animals, plants, etc. via evolution. Why does there always have to be such a strict separation about this?

 

[James Raynor]

Just wait for everything to be explained by science.

Science is religion. I'm not saying, "You place your faith in existing theories....blah blah blah", but I am saying that maybe God (the creator/supreme being/grand Poobah) uses scientific law to act and shape the universe. Would that be so hard to accept? God made man and all the other animals, plants, etc. via evolution. Why does there always have to be such a strict separation about this?

Um, wtf.

Science is the opposite of religion.

 

[Compatriot Block]

Well certainly some atheists generally believe that, most do not. Please do not make such broad generalizations.

Did you seriously just take that one tiny part of my post and try and act like it was my whole point?

Sorry, but I didn't feel like getting into an argument over it. I just thought I'd ask you not to make such a stereotype.

I'm going to ask you to go back and read my post again. Where I said that religious people do all the same stuff Atheists do. Please, go ahead. Seriously, it's right there. I repeated it like 3 times.

Both groups act the same way.

Okay, the I will procede to pick apart your arguement.


Yes people will kill each other, but it won't be justifiable by religious means, which is typically the most common one.

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal


You also seem to come to the conclusion that atheists and religious people are both equally flawed percentage wise, this is just simply not true. There are many times more religious fanatics then atheist ones, and even many more times religious people kill other people then atheists kill other people.



Someone who believes creationism is true means we cannot say that there incorrect for having that belief?

First off, I addressed the issue of percentages from a decidedly neutral view. Statistically, since religion is a majority, there will be more of EVERYTHING.

And I never said you can't believe they are incorrect. I said no one has any business telling anyone else that they are somehow stupid or inferior due to what they believe.

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

Wait...You complained about me using stereotypes?

 

[ShyWinter]

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

"FOR DARWIN" *blows up*
"FOR COMMUNISM" *blows up*
"FOR MY FAMILY" *blows up*
"FOR AMERICA" *blows up*

Yeah.... There's no problem with killing for those, is there?

 

[James Raynor]

Well certainly some atheists generally believe that, most do not. Please do not make such broad generalizations.

Did you seriously just take that one tiny part of my post and try and act like it was my whole point?

Sorry, but I didn't feel like getting into an argument over it. I just thought I'd ask you not to make such a stereotype.

I'm going to ask you to go back and read my post again. Where I said that religious people do all the same stuff Atheists do. Please, go ahead. Seriously, it's right there. I repeated it like 3 times.

Both groups act the same way.

Okay, the I will procede to pick apart your arguement.


Yes people will kill each other, but it won't be justifiable by religious means, which is typically the most common one.

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal


You also seem to come to the conclusion that atheists and religious people are both equally flawed percentage wise, this is just simply not true. There are many times more religious fanatics then atheist ones, and even many more times religious people kill other people then atheists kill other people.



Someone who believes creationism is true means we cannot say that there incorrect for having that belief?

First off, I addressed the issue of percentages from a decidedly neutral view. Statistically, since religion is a majority, there will be more of EVERYTHING.

And I never said you can't believe they are incorrect. I said no one has any business telling anyone else that they are somehow stupid or inferior due to what they believe.

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

Wait...You complained about me using stereotypes?

I wasn't implying that all Muslims do that, but I was pointing out that they do indeed do that solely for there religious beliefs.



And I said percentage, pay attention to my words.


Bad religious people maybe between 5-1%

Bad atheists tend to be 1-0%

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

"FOR DARWIN" *blows up*
"FOR COMMUNISM" *blows up*
"FOR MY FAMILY" *blows up*
"FOR AMERICA" *blows up*

Yeah.... There's no problem with killing for those, is there?

Yeah, just show me someone doing that.

I can easily show you a Muslim suicide bomber, show me a Darwinist suicide bomber, a communist suicide bomber, a family suicide bomber, and an American suicide bomber.

 

[Compatriot Block]

Well certainly some atheists generally believe that, most do not. Please do not make such broad generalizations.

Did you seriously just take that one tiny part of my post and try and act like it was my whole point?

Sorry, but I didn't feel like getting into an argument over it. I just thought I'd ask you not to make such a stereotype.

I'm going to ask you to go back and read my post again. Where I said that religious people do all the same stuff Atheists do. Please, go ahead. Seriously, it's right there. I repeated it like 3 times.

Both groups act the same way.

Okay, the I will procede to pick apart your arguement.


Yes people will kill each other, but it won't be justifiable by religious means, which is typically the most common one.

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal


You also seem to come to the conclusion that atheists and religious people are both equally flawed percentage wise, this is just simply not true. There are many times more religious fanatics then atheist ones, and even many more times religious people kill other people then atheists kill other people.



Someone who believes creationism is true means we cannot say that there incorrect for having that belief?

First off, I addressed the issue of percentages from a decidedly neutral view. Statistically, since religion is a majority, there will be more of EVERYTHING.

And I never said you can't believe they are incorrect. I said no one has any business telling anyone else that they are somehow stupid or inferior due to what they believe.

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

Wait...You complained about me using stereotypes?

I wasn't implying that all Muslims do that, but I was pointing out that they do indeed do that solely for there religious beliefs.



And I said percentage, pay attention to my words.


Bad religious people maybe between 5-1%

Bad atheists tend to be 1-0%

I can pull statistics out of my pants too!

5% of Atheists prefer chicken.

There is a 10% chance of me sneezing in 40 seconds.

Please, just stop. I don't care what you believe, but the comments you make are deliberately insulting to anyone who chooses to believe in a religion.

 

[James Raynor]

SNIP

Canadian Prisons
1925
Ca. prisoners Atheist/ Agnostic, non-religious Uniterain
0%

0 of 1,2061

Steiner and Swancara
Prison Population executed for murder at Sing-sing
1925
US Sing-Sing Pen. non-religious
0.33%

*

"The New Criminology," Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith
Prison Population
1925
US Prisoners convicts without
religious training
0.1%

*

"The New Criminology," Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith
Prison Population
1997

U.S. Prisoners
Atheist
0.209%

156 of 74,731

Federal Bureau of Prisons +


http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

 

[Ben Jamin]

I don't agree with religion, i just think is creates more problems than it solves.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Theoretically it's got a good system worked out. The people who are extremely weak of mind are the people who follow religious practice, and would probably be more likely to go on murdering sprees if they didn't fear hell. However, the way it's executed is the problem. Brainwashing children at young ages, being utilized for exploitation and fiscal gain, even terrorism. The foundation in which religion, more particularly the abrahamic ones are built has become flawed with the passing of time. I really have no problem with per se buddhism or spiritualistic practice, it's things like the "god hates fags" protesters and the bending of Islam by the Taliban to found terrorist acts that makes people who force their faith on others not only unjust, but dangerous.

 

[Compatriot Block]

I give up. There is no reasoning with you. You obviously have decided that you are right, and no amount of persuasion will change that. In a sick way, I respect you for sticking to your guns. This is a waste of my time and energy when you have made up your mind before this even began. I really hope that some day you grow up and learn to accept people who believe in something other than what you do.

Good day.

 

[James Raynor]

I give up. There is no reasoning with you. You obviously have decided that you are right, and no amount of persuasion will change that. In a sick way, I respect you for sticking to your guns. This is a waste of my time and energy when you have made up your mind before this even began. I really hope that some day you grow up and learn to accept people who believe in something other than what you do.

Good day.

If you happened to look at the source you'd know I was pretty accurate.

http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm <- look if you haven't.

 

[James Raynor]

Theoretically it's got a good system worked out. The people who are extremely weak of mind are the people who follow religious practice, and would probably be more likely to go on murdering sprees if they didn't fear hell. However, the way it's executed is the problem. Brainwashing children at young ages, being utilized for exploitation and fiscal gain, even terrorism. The foundation in which religion, more particularly the abrahamic ones are built has become flawed with the passing of time. I really have no problem with per se buddhism or spiritualistic practice, it's things like the "god hates fags" protesters and the bending of Islam by the Taliban to found terrorist acts that makes people who force their faith on others not only unjust, but dangerous.

The problem is that religious theocracies, like communism, sound good on paper, but when actually implemented fall flat.

 

[ShyWinter]

Well certainly some atheists generally believe that, most do not. Please do not make such broad generalizations.

Did you seriously just take that one tiny part of my post and try and act like it was my whole point?

Sorry, but I didn't feel like getting into an argument over it. I just thought I'd ask you not to make such a stereotype.

I'm going to ask you to go back and read my post again. Where I said that religious people do all the same stuff Atheists do. Please, go ahead. Seriously, it's right there. I repeated it like 3 times.

Both groups act the same way.

Okay, the I will procede to pick apart your arguement.


Yes people will kill each other, but it won't be justifiable by religious means, which is typically the most common one.

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal


You also seem to come to the conclusion that atheists and religious people are both equally flawed percentage wise, this is just simply not true. There are many times more religious fanatics then atheist ones, and even many more times religious people kill other people then atheists kill other people.



Someone who believes creationism is true means we cannot say that there incorrect for having that belief?

First off, I addressed the issue of percentages from a decidedly neutral view. Statistically, since religion is a majority, there will be more of EVERYTHING.

And I never said you can't believe they are incorrect. I said no one has any business telling anyone else that they are somehow stupid or inferior due to what they believe.

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

Wait...You complained about me using stereotypes?

I wasn't implying that all Muslims do that, but I was pointing out that they do indeed do that solely for there religious beliefs.



And I said percentage, pay attention to my words.


Bad religious people maybe between 5-1%

Bad atheists tend to be 1-0%

If religion won't kill us, something else will. So what the fuck, right? Go ahead and let people be religious.

"FOR ALLAH" *blows up*


Yeah.... that's perfectly fine.

"FOR DARWIN" *blows up*
"FOR COMMUNISM" *blows up*
"FOR MY FAMILY" *blows up*
"FOR AMERICA" *blows up*

Yeah.... There's no problem with killing for those, is there?

Yeah, just show me someone doing that.

I can easily show you a Muslim suicide bomber, show me a Darwinist suicide bomber, a communist suicide bomber, a family suicide bomber, and an American suicide bomber.

Pick any cause, and there always one dude willing to kill over it, no matter how stupid it is. I don't see how an absence/modification of religion could decrease violence, if that's what you're getting at. A lot of seemingly sole religious movements have additional motivations: political, social, personal, whatever.

Take the crusades, we often think of them as religious, right? But look at a map and you can see that The Mediterranean Sea is close to the Persian Gulf. Think of the trade routes through there that can be taxed, along with the rare materials like silk. Who wouldn't want to control that?

Look at the Holocaust. Now we all know about the Jews getting killed and as sucky as that was there were lots of others. Gays, retarded, twins...the list goes on, and for the crazy reason of them being "inferior".

Maybe I misunderstood the thread, or you misunderstood my comment, whatever. What I'm saying is that there's a lot else that people kill for. Hell, before typing all this, I felt like punching you because I thought you were an asshole to me (personal reason, not religious). I'm cooled off now if it really matters.

 

[James Raynor]

SNIP

I'm pointing out that they are in some cases, willing to kill you, me, and themselves over what they believe in. Especially when it has no good reason for being believed in in the first place other then cultural indoctrination.


Try putting religious claims up to the standard of science.

 

[Kaymish]

well you have to weigh the real benefits with the real disadvantages
and no morals and charity and those sorts of things are not real benefits because 1) atheists and anti theists have morals and give to charities and stuff like that and 2) i have seen plenty of ultra faithful religious people who have no morals at all and are totally against giving to charities unless that charity is themselves

in my view the negatives of the true religions out weighs the benefits that they provide which makes them inherently bad

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Just wait for everything to be explained by science.

Science is religion. I'm not saying, "You place your faith in existing theories....blah blah blah", but I am saying that maybe God (the creator/supreme being/grand Poobah) uses scientific law to act and shape the universe. Would that be so hard to accept? God made man and all the other animals, plants, etc. via evolution. Why does there always have to be such a strict separation about this?

Um, wtf.

Science is the opposite of religion.

Uh, no.

Main Entry: religion
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: belief in divinity; system of beliefs
Synonyms: church, communion, creed, cult, denomination, devotion, doctrine, higher power, morality, myth, mythology, observance, orthodoxy, pietism, piety, prayer, preference, religiosity, rites, ritual, sacrifice, sanctification, sect, spiritual-mindedness, spirituality, standards, superstition, theology, veneration
Antonyms: agnosticism, atheism, disbelief

EDIT: Ha ha. 420 posts on April 20th.

 

[The_Prophet]

Oh for fucks sake, was that supposed to be a Normal question?

 

[Motti]

You know the image of the barbaric caveman? The one who has no religion and ruthlessly tries to survive over his fellow beings/ They once found a tomb with a caveman inside it, surrounded be his possessions, that was middle aged. He had arthritis and would have done no good to his community. You know what? He lived. From what archaeologists could tell, he had a decent life, despite his disability. He was looked after by his tribe/family.

You don't need religion to be a good person.