Religious Freedom

[Merkavar]

If that's the only thing that you're required to do (wearing a skull cap), I don't see the big deal. It's hardly an inconvenience.

its not that its an inconvenience, its more the principle of the thing

the prinicple of not being able to put a piece of im guessing fabric on your head to show some respect and follow a tradition? they arent asking you to convert or sacrifice a goat. i just dont see the issue. but just dont go if its an issue but you are the one missing out on learning about some one elses traditions and practices. its no skin of their nose (or penis)

 

[TheAbominableDan]

Just a question. Why do you not want to do it? For any actual ideological reasons or have you just decided anything to do with a faith that's not your own is bad? Because it's a hat, you're not being asked to pray, it's the same as going to a restaurant that requires a coat and tie.

 

[nightcoil]

If that's the only thing that you're required to do (wearing a skull cap), I don't see the big deal. It's hardly an inconvenience.

its not that its an inconvenience, its more the principle of the thing

the prinicple of not being able to put a piece of im guessing fabric on your head to show some respect and follow a tradition? they arent asking you to convert or sacrifice a goat. i just dont see the issue. but just dont go if its an issue but you are the one missing out on learning about some one elses traditions and practices. its no skin of their nose (or penis)

yeah that's fair enough, im just saying if there is no way of getting out of it

 

[CCountZero]

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?

First of all, it's entirely within your legal rights to refuse to participate in this excursion.

As you suggest yourself, a fair few people might suggest that you just suck it up, but that would be detrimental to yourself, and everyone who might be in the same situation later on.

"Manning up" would be to stand firm on your beliefs, exercise your rights, and set a precedent.

 

[similar.squirrel]

You are the visitor. They are calling the shots. You can choose not to visit. They honestly feel can't let you in without the hat. This is not a matter of imposing their religion on the world at large [like the absence of legal abortion in Ireland, for example], but a matter of doing so in their own home, so to speak.

 

[ScumbagEddie]

its not that its an inconvenience, its more the principle of the thing

So do you object to being forced to wear a decent shirt and pants in a nightclub?

Polite refusal to conform to a belief structure is in no way disrespecting their traditions. The Jewish faith is, in my experience, one of the more understanding paths out there. Being forced to wear the cap is like being forced to take communion in a cathedral if you aren't Catholic. I personally am mostly atheistic in practice, but I have studied religions and toured many different faith's places of worship. I've never been turned away because I wouldn't wear the cap or take communion or go to confessional, etc.

Basically, if it infringes on your own personal belief structure, refuse politely. Manners, as with all people, are the key.

That's a terrible analogy. They won't let you take the host unless you go through all the rituals and stuff beforehand. And admittadly, I don't even know the point of the skullcap, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with "comforming to belief" You don't even have to stand up to get the host if you don't want. You can just sit there.

Really, mate? Comparing a religious place of worship to a nightclub? Haha. No further comment.

 

[kypsilon]

Don't do anything you don't feel comfortable with. Bottom line.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

You are the visitor. They are calling the shots. You can choose not to visit. They honestly feel can't let you in without the hat. This is not a matter of imposing their religion on the world at large [like the absence of legal abortion in Ireland, for example], but a matter of doing so in their own home, so to speak.

I can't choose not to visit actually. I could break school rules and not turn up when they expect me to, get a detention and get in trouble with my parents, OR I can turn up, be open minded, and politely decline to wear the thing. Which one do you think is more rude?

 

[Aurgelmir]

Tomorrow, my school is taking myself and a few dozen other students to a Jewish museum. I'm totally fine with this, and have no problem accepting other peoples views and opinions. However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?
Discuss?
[sub] No flame wars please.[/sub]

Are you asked to join in in any religious ceremonies?
Or is the skull cap the only thing they are asking of you?

The skull cap is probably asked of you in respect of the beliefs of the patrons of the synagogue, and not a tool to convert you.
To me it sounds like being respectful to the religion, even though it's not yours.

I do not think it has anything to do with respecting others traditions, as much it has to do with respecting them and their beliefs, and respect what values they put into their religious building.


That said, I do think it is okay for those of you who do not wish to participate inside to be allowed to wait, if wearing the skull cap is not something you want to do.

 

[Endocrom]

Would you have the same problem with a hard hat at a construction site? because strangly enough it's kind of similar.

Most likley you won't need the hard hat in a "visitor" scenario, but they make you wear it to cover their own asses. In this case, one is so you can't sue from a head injury the other is so that the synagogue can remain respectable in the eyes of it's followers (and thus not loose any).

But hey, I'm an atheist making this stuff up in the middle of the night.

 

[NathLines]

I'd say that you've already "manned up" if you've told them that you refuse to wear the hat.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Does it matter? Does it really make a difference whether I said I didn't want to wear it because my family was murdered by a Jew, or because I'm a Pastafarian and would like to wear a pirate hat instead? I don't want to wear it, and I think they should respect my beliefs.

 

[JJMUG]

Kinda funny how no one know anything about the skull cap or Yamaka or kippa or whatever you call it. A quick Google search that i did for this thread shows that it is Jewish law for Jewish men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarmulke

If Op is not jewish he does not have to wear it, it is not required.

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Do you regularly take part in religious practices that are not your own?

 

[TheAbominableDan]

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Does it matter? Does it really make a difference whether I said I didn't want to wear it because my family was murdered by a Jew, or because I'm a Pastafarian and would like to wear a pirate hat instead? I don't want to wear it, and I think they should respect my beliefs.

Well yes. Because depending on your reasoning you could be just being contrary for the sake of it. Which means you're just hurting yourself. Based on your answers I'm guessing that's what you're doing. I could be wrong, but I'm taking a guess.

Also I'm again going to point out you're not being asked to participate in a ceremony or convert, you're being asked to keep your head covered.

 

[Hawgh]

If you want to go inside the secret clubhouse. You have to put on the secret hat. Them's the breaks.

I remember the first(also last and only) time I visited a synagogue. I had to spent most of the time with a hand on my head to keep the cap on; Apparently my head is quite a bit larger than the average member visitor's.

 

[OutforEC]

When I was in school (colloquially refered to as 'back in the day'), if a student chose not to participate in a field trip, they just did menial stuff back on campus. Hardly the best solution, but if you feel strongly about your principles, it may be an option.

As for your original dilemma, I probably wouldn't be comfortable with it either, and personally I don't know whether or not I'd comply. Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so, and my whole life I've been told that one removes headgear when indoors, so it would just feel strange to have to do the exact opposite, especially out of deference for a religion that I don't follow.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

 

[OutforEC]

If you want to go inside the secret clubhouse. You have to put on the secret hat. Them's the breaks.

Precisely; however, if the school/teacher forces him to go inside, making him conform to their religious requirements is a different matter.