Religious Freedom

[Rayne870]

its not that its an inconvenience, its more the principle of the thing

So do you object to being forced to wear a decent shirt and pants in a nightclub?

Polite refusal to conform to a belief structure is in no way disrespecting their traditions. The Jewish faith is, in my experience, one of the more understanding paths out there. Being forced to wear the cap is like being forced to take communion in a cathedral if you aren't Catholic. I personally am mostly atheistic in practice, but I have studied religions and toured many different faith's places of worship. I've never been turned away because I wouldn't wear the cap or take communion or go to confessional, etc.

Basically, if it infringes on your own personal belief structure, refuse politely. Manners, as with all people, are the key.

That's a terrible analogy. They won't let you take the host unless you go through all the rituals and stuff beforehand. And admittadly, I don't even know the point of the skullcap, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with "comforming to belief" You don't even have to stand up to get the host if you don't want. You can just sit there.

Really, mate? Comparing a religious place of worship to a nightclub? Haha. No further comment.

Though not for purposes of worship the nightclub analogy fits rather nicely. It is decorum, or dress and deportment.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Does it matter? Does it really make a difference whether I said I didn't want to wear it because my family was murdered by a Jew, or because I'm a Pastafarian and would like to wear a pirate hat instead? I don't want to wear it, and I think they should respect my beliefs.

Well yes. Because depending on your reasoning you could be just being contrary for the sake of it. Which means you're just hurting yourself. Based on your answers I'm guessing that's what you're doing. I could be wrong, but I'm taking a guess.

Also I'm again going to point out you're not being asked to participate in a ceremony or convert, you're being asked to keep your head covered.

I'm not being contrary for the sake of it, it's my idealogical belief. I can see how it would sound like that's what I'm doing, but I'm just not comfortable joining in.
If all they want me to do is keep my head covered, can I bring my own headwear?

 

[DanDeFool]

Edit: I don't know what the deal with the skullcaps is but some practices such as that are to preserve the sanctity of the grounds. It's more like washing your feet before walking into some holy area to keep it "clean" figuratively speaking. It isn't a symbol of saying I worship your god.

The skullcap, or Yarmulke, is supposed to be a sign of humility before God, a recognition that God is always "above your head", so to speak. Technically, if you are visiting a synagogue, it is private property and they have the right to enforce their religious laws and customs on all people who visit there.

Of course, since the visit is part of your public schooling, they have no right to force you onto the grounds of the synagogue if you don't want to participate in said customs.

 

[Rayne870]

Kinda funny how no one know anything about the skull cap or Yamaka or kippa or whatever you call it. A quick Google search that i did for this thread shows that it is Jewish law for Jewish men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarmulke

If Op is not jewish he does not have to wear it, it is not required.

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Do you regularly take part in religious practices that are not your own?

Oh snap we're talking about one of those? I've always wanted one! For respectful and archival purposes of course but yeah I always wanted one!

 

[TheAbominableDan]

Kinda funny how no one know anything about the skull cap or Yamaka or kippa or whatever you call it. A quick Google search that i did for this thread shows that it is Jewish law for Jewish men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarmulke

If Op is not jewish he does not have to wear it, it is not required.

You haven't said why you object. And I'm willing to bet it's not for as good a reason as you think it is. I did tons of stupid rebellious shit in high school that was ultimately meaningless but I told myself I wasn't going to conform and was going to stand up for what was right. But in the end most of it was dumb. And sorry to say this one probably is too. You're not being asked to take part in a religious ceremony, you're being asked to be respectful by keeping your head covered.

Do you regularly take part in religious practices that are not your own?

Well I was raised jewish but left it. And when I have to go to a synagogue for a bar mitzvah or other occasion I do wear a kippah. So the answer is yes. But as I've said, the kippah is not strictly a religious practice.

 

[Rayne870]

Edit: I don't know what the deal with the skullcaps is but some practices such as that are to preserve the sanctity of the grounds. It's more like washing your feet before walking into some holy area to keep it "clean" figuratively speaking. It isn't a symbol of saying I worship your god.

The skullcap, or Yarmulke, is supposed to be a sign of humility before God, a recognition that God is always "above your head", so to speak. Technically, if you are visiting a synagogue, it is private property and they have the right to enforce their religious laws and customs on all people who visit there.

Of course, since the visit is part of your public schooling, they have no right to force you onto the grounds of the synagogue if you don't want to participate in said customs.

So I was halfway there in my thought. If I had of known it was a Yarmulke I would have clued in lol. Skullcap just totally wasn't ringing a bell for me.

 

[Dogstile]

If there is a rule that everyone has to wear a hat in there, then you have to wear the hat or not go in. Same thing would be asked of you if you went into my nans home, except instead of wearing a hat, you'd have to take off your shoes.

Don't believe in being barefoot in someone else's house? Tough, don't go in. Its not a religious ceremony, man up. That means either don't go in, or suck it up and wear the silly hat.

:also, been awake for more than 24 hours, I do not expect what i'm typing to make sense, hopefully it does

 

[jonyboy13]

No, you are not right.
They are not cutting your dick and screaming at you to be Jewish.
By wearing it you are not declaring you are Jewish, you just respect their belief.
Grow up. You can't accept their opinions and ideas if you don't respect their religion even a bit.

 

[MrGalactus]

They aren't trying to make you "one of them". Wearing the Yarmulke is just part of the culture, and it's a sign of respect of the religion in Jewish culture of a gentile is to wear one. In the synagogue, you wear one so you can be reminded that you are in fact in a holy place, as it says in The Talmud, "Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you."
It's just good manners, and to not wear it would offend the people of the congregation, and if I were you I wouldn't wait outside. Experiencing other peoples cultures broadens the mind and enriches your scope on life, so don't pass this opportunity to see the Jewish culture just because you don't want to "join in" on religious activities.
Wearing it is just a sign of respect, it doesn't symbolise anything about the person wearing it other than that they are tolerant towards Jews and what they believe.

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

Do whatever you believe is right. If that involves telling them exactly where they can shove their funny looking little hats, than so be it.

It's entirely up to you. Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

 

[OutforEC]

But as I've said, the kippah is not strictly a religious practice.

So, what would you call it then? It's done in deference to God in a place of worship, and as far as I can tell has no secular or practical application that an ordinary hat wouldn't suffice for. How can it not be viewed as a religious practice?

 

[NeutralDrow]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

 

[jonyboy13]

But as I've said, the kippah is not strictly a religious practice.

So, what would you call it then? It's done in deference to God in a place of worship, and as far as I can tell has no secular or practical application that an ordinary hat wouldn't suffice for. How can it not be viewed as a religious practice?

It is if you wear it outside of a synagogue. But inside, every man -must- wear it, regardless of his faith.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

If there is a rule that everyone has to wear a hat in there, then you have to wear the hat or not go in. Same thing would be asked of you if you went into my nans home, except instead of wearing a hat, you'd have to take off your shoes.

Don't believe in being barefoot in someone else's house? Tough, don't go in. Its not a religious ceremony, man up. That means either don't go in, or suck it up and wear the silly hat.

:also, been awake for more than 24 hours, I do not expect what i'm typing to make sense, hopefully it does

Congratulations, you can type readable sentences after an all-nighter.
And I'm offering to wait outside, but I suspect the teachers will force me to join in, or punish me for being 'dis-respectful' when we get back to school.

 

[AgDr_ODST]

just go with it man and wear the little cap...its not like anyone is trying to actively force Judaism or any other religion (on this 1 trip any way) down your throat. Its a matter or respecting the people and the place, but if the cap does some how cause confusion and it leads to someone asking you a question because they think your Jewish, all you have to do is politely explain your religious affiliation (or the lack there of)

 

[TheAbominableDan]

But as I've said, the kippah is not strictly a religious practice.

So, what would you call it then? It's done in deference to God in a place of worship, and as far as I can tell has no secular or practical application that an ordinary hat wouldn't suffice for. How can it not be viewed as a religious practice?

It is if you wear it outside of a synagogue. But inside, every man -must- wear it, regardless of his faith.

Thank you. I was having trouble wording what I wanted to say and then you did it for me. When you go to any place of worship you dress respectfully. In a synagogue that includes a kippah.

 

[jakegold]

Speaking from the perspective of a former Jew, it you want to wear the skullcap, wear it, if you don't, don't it is your decision, and none of the Jews or other classmates should criticize you for your beliefs. i am a atheist living with two Conservative Jewish parents, i eat kosher at home (they will not allow non kosher food in the house) so i abide by their beliefs, but i eat a ham and cheese sandwich last year at passover, and they didn't give a shit. i respect others beliefs, but personally do not follow them. do what you belief.

BTW, I know this is over two years old, but I wanted to put in my two cents.

 

[Dogstile]

If there is a rule that everyone has to wear a hat in there, then you have to wear the hat or not go in. Same thing would be asked of you if you went into my nans home, except instead of wearing a hat, you'd have to take off your shoes.

Don't believe in being barefoot in someone else's house? Tough, don't go in. Its not a religious ceremony, man up. That means either don't go in, or suck it up and wear the silly hat.

:also, been awake for more than 24 hours, I do not expect what i'm typing to make sense, hopefully it does

Congratulations, you can type readable sentences after an all-nighter.
And I'm offering to wait outside, but I suspect the teachers will force me to join in, or punish me for being 'dis-respectful' when we get back to school.

If they punish for you, simply take it higher than the teacher. Be civil, calmly explain why you didn't go in. They can't legally "punish" you for that.

Now, i'm off to college, so if you reply to me, you won't get a response for like, 8-9 hours, and thats if I don't fall asleep as soon as I get back

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I do not affiliate, nor will I ever affiliate, myself with ANY religious activity or group whatsoever. That being said, your little dillema reminded me of this...

This has foul language, so if you're offended by stuff like that, DON'T CLICK IT!

 

[Renegade-pizza]

I enjoy looking at things from a objective view (also I am a Christian, just saying). If you truly want to respect a culture/religion, participate in their traditions. Most of the people in my school are conservatives who judge other religions, literally because they don't share their views. They'd call your trip hedonistic. My point is, try to enjoy it for what it is. I was in many Catholic Cathedrals when we visited the UK, I saw it as a learning experience.

If you wear the hat, it means you're respecting their customs, not adopting their religion. They'll respect you for it and you can respect yourself for it.