Religious Freedom

[TheAbominableDan]

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Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

 

[nightcoil]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

Wow. Way to be extremely offensive. I left Judaism years and years ago and you've managed to offend the crap out of me with that. They're not the same at all and you should apologize for suggesting they are.

he wasn't suggesting they're the same

 

[WolfThomas]

If it was a matter of cultural deceny, I'd say the OP should do it out of respect even if you disagree with it, like having covered arms in a Catholic church or a headscarf for women in a mosque. But a Kippah or Yarmulke is an acknowledgement/affirmation of God for Jewish people. "Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you" - Talmud

So I don't think the OP should be made to wear it.

On the otherhand, I don't really believe in making a fuss like this is the right thing to do, I'd probably wear the Kippah or bring my own hat from home.

 

[Ledan]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

Wow. Way to be extremely offensive. I left Judaism years and years ago and you've managed to offend the crap out of me with that. They're not the same at all and you should apologize for suggesting they are.

Of course I apologize. And as I've already stated, Jews and Nazis are completely different. I was just showing how that if something offends you, or if you disagree with something, it shouldn't be forced upon you. So, although my comments was probably uncalled for, the fact that it offended you proved my point.
So yeah, sorry.

Hey, I think that's a valid comparison. He isn't trying to say that Jews=Nazis or anything like that (though I do think the Zionist faction...... anyways), but it is a commonly known symbol and an easy example. Besides, he already said they were different. Chill out dude.

 

[Still Life]

Tomorrow, my school is taking myself and a few dozen other students to a Jewish museum. I'm totally fine with this, and have no problem accepting other peoples views and opinions. However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?
Discuss?
[sub] No flame wars please.[/sub]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I agree with you, but you could see it more as a cultural thing than a religious one. Personally I abstain from all religious ceremonies because I find them offensive to my beliefs.
Politely say that you would rather not join in, and if they try to force you just say that it is against what you believe in, even if you don't believe in anything.

I agree, I don't want them to take it the wrong way, it's just my own personal choice.

 

[DarthFennec]

I totally understand and completely agree, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that either. I don't think they should make any of you do that. If they're going to push it on you like that anyway, just don't go.

 

[MacGuges]

Tomorrow, my school is taking myself and a few dozen other students to a Jewish museum. I'm totally fine with this, and have no problem accepting other peoples views and opinions. However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?
Discuss?

It doesn't sound like they're asking you to change your beliefs, unless you believe that wearing a skullcap in a Jewish synagogue makes you a Jew.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2084871_be-respectful-visiting-jewish-synagogue.html

 

[A Weary Exile]

The way I look at it it's just a polite custom, like bowing as sign of respect if you were to visit Japan or not sitting with the soles of your shoes exposed in a Middle-Eastern country (<--Huge sign of disrespect) it's only temporary and it's not like they're forcing you to become a Jew.

 

[Ledan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

 

[photog212]

snip

Although I personally think you're being absurd (my opinion that nobody cares about), try looking at i this way: They have the courtesy to invite you and your classmates into their sacred space, the least you could do is honor a simple tradition. Think of it as wiping your feet before entering somebody's home. It doesn't mean you're joining their family, just respecting their hospitality.

 

[photog212]

It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

Doesn't have to. In fact the ones you'll be getting should be nothing but black.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

 

[justnotcricket]

I personally would just accept the tradition and wear it (except that I'm a girl, I guess), because I would like to visit a synagogue and see what it is like. However, if you're prepared to wait outside I think that's fine too. The only real problem would be if you disparaged their religion and demanded to be let in without the skullcap. But obviously that's not what you're doing, so you're fine. =)

 

[HardkorSB]

That's preposterous!
Next they will make you wipe your feet before you go in.
This cannot continue!

Most likley you won't need the hard hat in a "visitor" scenario

Actually, you're required to wear it as soon as you enter the site, no matter who you are.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

That's preposterous!
Next they will make you wipe your feet before you go in.
This cannot continue!

Most likley you won't need the hard hat in a "visitor" scenario

Actually, you're required to wear it as soon as you enter the site, no matter who you are.

Care to explain your opinion instead of the sarcasm?
And what I think he's saying is that if there were going to be visitors in a construction site, they would only be going to visit the places where it was safe enough to not have to wear one, but I see your point.

 

[MacGuges]

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

Exactly. This sounds like cultural education, not brainwashing.

I used to have more trouble with prayer at dinner with my mother, since I expected she was looking for any evidence that I was actually still Catholic. I was too nervous to deny her (it's still a sore subject) but I felt it was unethical to misrepresent myself. So I would simply bow my head in silence while my family said their prayers.

But TacticalAssassin1's teacher, I'm guessing, is not his Jewish mother and nobody would be confused afterwards about whether he's become a Jew since he wore a skullcap at their synagogue.