Religious Freedom

[Mr Thin]

I'm going off Wikipedia here, which says the kippah is worn by Jewish men to fulfill the requirement that their head be covered at all times. Sounds pretty religious to me.

If the course was optional, I'd say you shouldn't have said yes without being prepared to wear it.

If they allow you to wait outside, do so, no big deal.

But if this is a mandatory part of the course, then I think it's within your rights to refuse them.

I'm bothered by the number of people in this thread who think that you should do it because "it's just a hat, get over it".

It's not just a hat, and it's not just a custom; the physical nature of the item is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing. Wearing a kippah is a religious practice and he does not share that religion, therefore, he should not have to wear it.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

Ah but I have to go. To not do so would be disobeying the rules of my school. Those who don't want to increase their cultural awareness have chosen not to attend, and they will probably be punished unless they have a note from their parent/guardian. I respect their traditions. I do not want to be a part of them. There is a difference there.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

Ah but I have to go. To not do so would be disobeying the rules of my school. Those who don't want to increase their cultural awareness have chosen not to attend, and they will probably be punished unless they have a note from their parent/guardian. I respect their traditions. I do not want to be a part of them. There is a difference there.

If you won't wear the kippah you won't be allowed in. So no, you won't be going.

 

[xdom125x]

l

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

I can acknowledge another person's religion as much/little as I want but I won't have another person's religious beliefs affect my non-belief in the slightest. If I was being forced to learn about a religion, I woudn't take on and practice those beliefs (wearing a yalmukka is definitely based in religion for example) regardless of where I am being taught about it. Oh, and I wish everyone the generic holiday greetings as well. And that is because I elect to do it, not because it is forced from me (plus the fact that plenty of holidays have been getting pretty damn secular/commerciaized these days anyway).

 

[Votix]

I would be fine with it as long as they don't make me say a pledge or make me pray. Otherwise, no...

Besides it is just a hat, not like they are trying to force anything upon you that is serious.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I'm going off Wikipedia here, which says the kippah is worn by Jewish men to fulfill the requirement that their head be covered at all times. Sounds pretty religious to me.

If the course was optional, I'd say you shouldn't have said yes without being prepared to wear it.

If they allow you to wait outside, do so, no big deal.

But if this is a mandatory part of the course, then I think it's within your rights to refuse them.

I'm bothered by the number of people in this thread who think that you should do it because "it's just a hat, get over it".

It's not just a hat, and it's not just a custom; the physical nature of the item is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing. Wearing a kippah is a religious practice and he does not share that religion, therefore, he should not have to wear it.

The course was English. Everybody does it. And yes, that's the reason I'm not so sure about wearing it. If they supply me with a normal hat, I guess I'll wear it because hey, it's just a hat. But wearing this is different.

 

[Wintermoot]

as long as you don,t need to do stuff like praying or getting tattoo,s it should be fine.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

Ah but I have to go. To not do so would be disobeying the rules of my school. Those who don't want to increase their cultural awareness have chosen not to attend, and they will probably be punished unless they have a note from their parent/guardian. I respect their traditions. I do not want to be a part of them. There is a difference there.

If you won't wear the kippah you won't be allowed in. So no, you won't be going.

Going to the synagogue is only part of the excursion. We are also going to a Jewish museum. I am hoping they let me wait outside for that part of the excursion, and then I will join those who decided to go in.

 

[Mr Thin]

self snip

The course was English. Everybody does it. And yes, that's the reason I'm not so sure about wearing it. If they supply me with a normal hat, I guess I'll wear it because hey, it's just a hat. But wearing this is different.

Apologies, I was unclear. When I said course, I was thinking about the... trip? Excursion? Whatever you'd call it. The visit to the museum & synagogue. I should have used a more accurate word.

Of course you'd take English, who doesn't take English.

Hell, in my high school, English was mandatory.

 

[cAptAin le britAnniA]

You're willing to learn about a religion, but you're not willing to respect its traditions?

Respecting traditions and participating with them is quite different. I've no problem with the tradition itself, but I don't want to participate, and will politely decline the invitation. Isn't that respectful?

It actually is. BUT! i think you should wear it and if they try to take it back you Demand you get to keep it. Don't defile it but just have it. I have a Book of Mormon. I'm not Mormon but i have it lol. I would say though you are correct in declining it not wanting to dress up in their cloth you mine as well go along with it. the worst that can happen is you get lice....seriously. It is.

I belive this is an awsome idea and that tacti should do this tomorrow.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

self snip

The course was English. Everybody does it. And yes, that's the reason I'm not so sure about wearing it. If they supply me with a normal hat, I guess I'll wear it because hey, it's just a hat. But wearing this is different.

Apologies, I was unclear. When I said course, I was thinking about the... trip? Excursion? Whatever you'd call it. The visit to the museum & synagogue. I should have used a more accurate word.

Of course you'd take English, who doesn't take English.

Hell, in my high school, English was mandatory.

No, the excursion is mandatory also. Doesn't stop a lot of people from not going but whatever, I'm going.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

as long as you don,t need to do stuff like praying or getting tattoo,s it should be fine.

Jews aren't allowed to get tattoos, so I doubt that would be required.

 

[Ixnay1111]

If you're comfortable with your belief of not believing in a religion it shouldn't be a problem.

Im not religous but i participated in my brothers catholic wedding and enjoyed it, i went through a vietnamese tea ceremony at my friends wedding where i was one of the groomsmen and i found it interesting and a good experience.

Don't think of it as a religion they're trying to hook you with, think of it as a culture they're offering to let you experience. So really I think it would be a good for you if you dont let your pride get in the way.

 

[sidecord]

i would just go with it, as long as they don't have you saying prayers, unless you want to.
had kinda the same thing while in my HS NJROTC program, whenever we ate, the Chaplin would say a prayer, so i bowed my head, but never said anything
its just what they did

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I think that you are being childish and contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

You claim that you want them to respect your belifs but are unwilling to respect their's, you can frankly sod off you offenssive git, willfully ignoring the will of your host is incredibly rude regardless of the situation, for example were you to enter my house wearing an article of clothing made of fur after I'd told you that that was unacceptable in my house I'd throw you the fuck out.
And by the way, you say your an atheist?
We don't HAVE any religious beliefs to respect.

The only time that this should even be an issue would be if you had a specific religious belief that didn't allow for the wearing of hats, and even then the only correct response would be to not enter.

If you are so offended by a small religios item you have no buisness setting foot on any holy ground at all.

We can do without the insults, thanks. I've been nothing but understanding in this discussion.
And just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean people don't have to respect my beliefs. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I don't have any beliefs to respect. If I were to say that I only wear pirate hats due to my Pastafarianism?, does that mean I now earn your religious respect? I'm fine with not entering, I've already stated that several times.

 

[tzimize]

Man up. They're asking you to wear a hat, not recite a pledge. Your beliefs are bizarre when you think respecting their beliefs in such a small and easy way is some sort of issue. You don't have to change your beliefs in any way for them. It's a hat.

So I think you're in the wrong, yeah.

He's not in the wrong, how could he be? Of course, wearing a hat is not a big deal, but what if it was a burka? Or a nazi symbol? (I know nazism is not a religion but there are still important symbols). Personally I wouldnt give two rats about having to wear a hat, but if he doesnt want to he shouldnt have to.

He is completely in the right if he wants to not participate in another religions customs. That said he cant be expected to be allowed inside, but he seems to be fine with that. As another pointed out it would be fair if he was given the information on paper instead.

 

[iamthe1]

Dude, it's just a yarmulke (skullcap? seriously?). Just put the damn thing on and participate! If you're worried that it's going to change you, then you're beliefs are rather fragile to begin with. It seems like you're raising a stink for no reason.

Trust me, as long as it's not a super-orthodox service, you'll soon forgot that you even have it on: you'll be too busy singing.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Dude, it's just a yarmulke (skullcap? seriously?). Just put the damn thing on and participate! If you're worried that it's going to change you, then you're beliefs are rather fragile to begin with. It seems like you're raising a stink for no reason.

Trust me, as long as it's not a super-orthodox service, you'll soon forgot that you even have it on: you'll be too busy singing.

My English teacher called it a skullcap, so I just decided to use that name for it.
I know it's not going to change me. That's not the point.
And no, I highly doubt I'll be singing.

 

[Garrett Richey]

This would be similar to being asked to remove your shoes when entering someone's house. You're not being asked to participate in any ritual sacrifices or anything. They're not asking you to follow their religion but to respect their place of worship. It's a dress code like you would find just about anywhere you choose to go that isn't within your own home and along those grounds I don't see why you wouldn't.