Religious Freedom

[moretimethansense]

Source?
How about the OP?

He flat out stated that they would be required to wear one so in this particular synagogue at least it would appear to be mandatory.

EDIT And I'm belittleing him for making a massive deal out of wearing a fucking hat.
If he is an atheist as he says it would take absolutely no sacrifice on his part and he seems to be doing it for the sole purpose of being obstannant.

He never stated it was the synagogue that enforced the rule. I assumed that it was the teacher being over-cautious when trying to respect the jewish traditions. You could be right that this synagogue enforces all males to wear the kippah, but I still have yet to see any evidence this is true.

A kippah is more than just "a fucking hat", it is a religious symbol showing that you consider yourself a servant of Yahweh. Even if it was just "a fucking hat", your belittling still makes you look like an arsehole.

If it's the teacher and not the synagogue then fair enough, he need not wear it, though it's stil him needlessly rebelling at least it won't offend people needlessly.

As to the "Fucking hat" comment, I meant to him it's just a fucking hat, to an atheist it has no significance whatsoever so acting like it's some massive attack on his belief system (of which an atheist has none) is just an act of immaturity as there is no reason to refuse.
If he were (for example) a Benedictine monk then sure he'd have reaso to complain, but he has admitted himself an atheist, if this synagogue does enforce the wearing of Kippah(s?) it hurts him in no way to conform.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Let me see if I can step back and add some cultural understanding.

Whether you get it or not, being in a Jewish place of worship without a hat is considered disrespectful dress, just as if you showed up in say your underwear and nothing else. You wouldn't do that just to make a point that you don't believe in their dress code right?

Putting on a head covering is not considered a religious act, although religious people do it. If you were to show up for morning services, you would find people wearing a variety of hat types based on their cultural tradition, a shawl or scarf known as a tallis, and boxes attached by leather straps to their arm and head known as teffillin.

Under no circumstances would you be expected to wear tallis and teffillin as those ARE items of religious significance. You in fact might be prohibitted in many shules from putting them on, especially the teffillin.

The Jewish religion is as anti-conversion/anti-recruiting as you can get. We have no interest in you participating in religious ceremonies/rights. You are welcome to observe as long as you act respectful in doing so. That's all putting on a hat, or not showing up in your underwear, is about.

Thanks for the information. I understand what you're saying. And no, I wouldn't refuse to wear the hat just to make a statement. I do have a hat I could take, and if my teacher is being overly cautious not to offend those there, then she'll probably ask me to wear one, in which case I probably won't be bothered to make a fuss about it.
Half the reason I was so against it in the first place was/is that i was pretty sure that there was absolutely no say in the matter, which obviously I see as wrong. Now I think about it, and after all the explanations it's not that much a big deal, but I still believe that if somebody doesn't want to participate they have the right to say no.
Besides, it was interesting to see what peoples opinions on the subject was, which is why I started the thread in the first place.

 

[Sanglyon]

I wouldn't go inside a building if I had to wear a religious symbol of any kind, and I wouldn't make any concession by wearing a hat either. I don't have respect for any religions, and I won't give them any grasp on me by bending to their rules, even small one.

However, I respect other human being, and I'll show this respect by not entering said building at all. What would be truly disrespectfull would be to demand to enter nevertheless. That's not a public building, it belongs to a community that sets the rules inside it.

 

[10BIT]

He need not wear a kippah, any hat will do. And no, that's not what it means.

What is the meaning behind a kippah then (genuinely interested)?

Snip

Being an atheist means that you lack a belief in a god/gods, not that you lack beliefs.

My English teacher called it a skullcap, so I just decided to use that name for it.

If he referred to it as a skullcap, there could be a chance that it is a non-religious version; not all skullcaps are kippahs (as far as I know).

 

[Merkavar]

and I think they should respect my beliefs.

they will respect your beliefs. you can stand out side.

But really why should you go? you seem to be so closed minded that you cant handle wearing a relgious cap for a day. why not save you, your parents or the school some money and not go. if its free stop wasting peoples time. you sound like you would not gain anything from going other than hatred over being force to wear a hat.

It does sound like it is a waste of time for him to go. Some people value learning about other cultures, others are xenophobic.

And to be clear...He is not required to wear a "religious cap", he is required to wear a head covering. Any hat appropriate to the dress is fine. A baseball cap for example is probably fine. The type of hat worn by Jewish people actually differs by region and there is no religious significance to its design or style at all. Men are just supposed to cover their head (this actually was common in much of the world for centuries as a matter of polite dress). If he has questions he can phone the Rabbi in adavance and gain understanding.

the cap isnt even religious its more a cultural/traditional thing?

That makes it even sillier for him to be complaining.

he puts the hat on for a day, learns about another culture/religion/tradition and then takes the hat off. no permanent damage other than increased knowledge and understanding and that can be treated with alchol. Looks like the OP is accepting that its a non issue or what ever. from what he wrote above.

awe got put on probation

 

[nyaman]

People just use the term skullcap because the terms kippah and yamoulkah are a tad more foreign. They are all acceptable ways of referring to it.
The point of the kippah is little more than tradition. As a form of respect, males cover our heads when we enter a sacred place. Any covering will do, but over time it has become tradition to wear the skull caps. You won't find any specific rules about it in the scriptures, it's just as a culture we pride ourselves in our sense of tradition (as any familiar with Fiddler on the Roof will probably get) and this is just one of those things.

 

[Frankster]

To use a metaphor as an analogy for your situation: would you take off your shoes before walking into a mosque?

Thats more or less same situation as OP.

Personally I feel there is no reason for you not to respect the location's custom/rules, if you can't accept that, then don't enter and explain why if asked, people will understand.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I wouldn't go inside a building if I had to wear a religious symbol of any kind, and I wouldn't make any concession by wearing a hat either. I don't have respect for any religions, and I won't give them any grasp on me by bending to their rules, even small one.

However, I respect other human being, and I'll show this respect by not entering said building at all. What would be truly disrespectfull would be to demand to enter nevertheless. That's not a public building, it belongs to a community that sets the rules inside it.

If you get rid of the 'no respect for religions' bit, this is basically what I was trying to point out with this thread.
I mean, if all I have to do is wear a crappy old hat I have lying around my room somewhere, why not. BUT that's pretty much as far as I'm going. I'll be respectful while I'm there, but I see no reason why it would be wrong of me to refuse to participate in any rituals ect in the unlikely chance they ask me to.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I don't see what the problem is here, nor why so many people are throwing up a stink. You respected their beliefs, opinions, you weren't being a "rebel" you simply did not want to take part in any active practices. Which is your right.

 

[mikespoff]

You're willing to learn about a religion, but you're not willing to respect its traditions?

Respecting traditions and participating with them is quite different. I've no problem with the tradition itself, but I don't want to participate, and will politely decline the invitation. Isn't that respectful?

You're not participating in the tradition by simply wearing a yarmulke - it really is just a respect thing. By wearing it you are acknowledging that the place you are in is holy to the people who hosting you, not that you necessarily consider it holy. They're not asking you to pray with them, they're not asking you to perform any religious ceremony, they're just asking you to respect that what you're seeing and learning about is a big deal to the people involved.

 

[nyaman]

Mr Somewhere, the reason people are making a fuss is mainly just a misunderstanding. What he was saying was disrespecting Jewish beliefs, not out of menace but just becuase he didn't understand the concept and meaning behind the skull cap. Nobody ever asked him to take place in any active practices by wearing it, they just asked for respect of their establishment. I think for the most part this has been cleared up, generally most will agree that it isn't right to force someone to take part in a ritual.

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

It doesn't sound like they're asking you to change your beliefs, unless you believe that wearing a skullcap in a Jewish synagogue makes you a Jew.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2084871_be-respectful-visiting-jewish-synagogue.html

Number five on that list, kiss anything holy that falls on the ground, including the cap, that confirms in my mind that it is not just a hat, but something with a deep religious connection and symbology.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

From what i understand the hat itself is a religious symbol. One whose purpose is to remind you of gods place above you. As a person who does not believe in the existence of god/s i would not feel comfortable wearing such an item that is identified with god/s. Furthermore, i would suggest that being forced to wear one shows a lack of respect for my beliefs.
If I were you OP i would politely decline the cap and wait outside. Your school cannot force you to obey a religious practice.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Mr Somewhere, the reason people are making a fuss is mainly just a misunderstanding. What he was saying was disrespecting Jewish beliefs, not out of menace but just becuase he didn't understand the concept and meaning behind the skull cap. Nobody ever asked him to take place in any active practices by wearing it, they just asked for respect of their establishment. I think for the most part this has been cleared up, generally most will agree that it isn't right to force someone to take part in a ritual.

I think this is a pretty accurate description of what's happened here. I honestly and obviously came into this conversation ignorant and I'm coming out knowledgeable, so I see this as a positive experience (apart from the unfortunate few who can't stop insulting people).

 

[mikespoff]

From what i understand the hat itself is a religious symbol.

Nah, it's just an issue of being fully dressed.

Think of it like wearing a suit for your wedding - you're doing something serious, so you dress seriously. In Jewish culture, synagogue is an important place, so you make sure you're fully dressed, and that includes wearing a hat. Any hat will do, although the yarmulke has become traditional over time.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

It doesn't sound like they're asking you to change your beliefs, unless you believe that wearing a skullcap in a Jewish synagogue makes you a Jew.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2084871_be-respectful-visiting-jewish-synagogue.html

Number five on that list, kiss anything holy that falls on the ground, including the cap, that confirms in my mind that it is not just a hat, but something with a deep religious connection and symbology.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

From what i understand the hat itself is a religious symbol. One whose purpose is to remind you of gods place above you. As a person who does not believe in the existence of god/s i would not feel comfortable wearing such an item that is identified with god/s. Furthermore, i would suggest that being forced to wear one shows a lack of respect for my beliefs.
If I were you OP i would politely decline the cap and wait outside. Your school cannot force you to obey a religious practice.

This was/is pretty much the basis of my concern. However now that I know I can wear any old hat, it shouldn't be a problem. I hope.

 

[mikespoff]

I honestly and obviously came into this conversation ignorant and I'm coming out knowledgeable, so I see this as a positive experience (apart from the unfortunate few who can't stop insulting people).

A tip of the hat for being mature enough to see this as an opportunity to learn - I'm glad you found it positive. Enjoy your trip, if you're still interested in learning more about the culture.

 

[nyaman]

You're quoting ehow, but several average Jewish people have been commenting on this thread telling you that it is not religious, but traditional and wholly not indicative of religious affiliation. I hate to accuse but I am sensing a bit of confirmation bias, choosing only sources that back up your point. For the record, in all my experience you don't kiss the cap when it falls. That only really refers to the books and such, so take of that what you will.

Also, I would say that even if you disagree with religions you should at least try to experience the basics of some of them. If that means observing a few of the customs that's a small price to pay for the knowledge you get. Just my opinion with that one.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I honestly and obviously came into this conversation ignorant and I'm coming out knowledgeable, so I see this as a positive experience (apart from the unfortunate few who can't stop insulting people).

A tip of the hat for being mature enough to see this as an opportunity to learn - I'm glad you found it positive. Enjoy your trip, if you're still interested in learning more about the culture.

I see what you did there (tip of the hat *chuckle*)
But yeah, thanks for that. Hopefully it will be interesting and enjoyable. The synagouge is only part of the trip (pretty sure) anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal. (May have misspelt synagouge and a few other things but it's midnight and I'm typing on an iPod)