Religious Freedom

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TacticalAssassin1

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May 29, 2009
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Jester00 said:
TacticalAssassin1 said:
[...]but as soon as they try to make me join in[...]
i facepalmed so hard.
What's wrong with that sentence? I'm not saying they will try to make me join in, but in the unlikely event that they do, I'll say no.
Isn't that fair enough? Or am I missing something?
 

Zay-el

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Apr 4, 2011
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TacticalAssassin1 said:
Sanglyon said:
I wouldn't go inside a building if I had to wear a religious symbol of any kind, and I wouldn't make any concession by wearing a hat either. I don't have respect for any religions, and I won't give them any grasp on me by bending to their rules, even small one.

However, I respect other human being, and I'll show this respect by not entering said building at all. What would be truly disrespectfull would be to demand to enter nevertheless. That's not a public building, it belongs to a community that sets the rules inside it.
If you get rid of the 'no respect for religions' bit, this is basically what I was trying to point out with this thread.
I mean, if all I have to do is wear a crappy old hat I have lying around my room somewhere, why not. BUT that's pretty much as far as I'm going. I'll be respectful while I'm there, but I see no reason why it would be wrong of me to refuse to participate in any rituals ect in the unlikely chance they ask me to.
I would understand this perfectly, if anyone required you to actively participate in a ritual, but get this, during such visits THEY DON'T DO THAT. As I've said before, I've been to tons of sermons regardless my lack of beliefs and I wasn't required to do anything, not even sing. I only sang along because it alleviated my boredom and some of them were indeed nicely written. Putting a hat on does not in any way make you participate, it's just something you do so no one would get offended, like, if I went to a church WITH a hat on.
 

Jester00

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2010
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TacticalAssassin1 said:
As soon as pigs fly...
Just because I say 'as soon as such and such' doesn't mean I think it's going to happen.
check the context:
TacticalAssassin1 said:
However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.
you say "as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where i draw the line". then you talk about waiting outside.
 

gertmenkel

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May 13, 2010
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Why NOT wear a skullcap?
Think of it as some strange hat.
It's not that wearing something immediately transforms you to a Jewish person.
 

klaynexas3

My shoes hurt
Dec 30, 2009
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you're in the right. you shouldn't do it if you really don't want to, i mean, i can understand why this might make you feel uncomfortable, i go through some of this stuff myself pretty much everyday. i live in a christian household but i'm not christian, and they know it. but they still make me participate in their beliefs, and i hate it with a passion. i want to try to be open minded as possible, but it's hard when they're forcing their beliefs on me. i naturally put up defenses towards this action. and i see you seem to be the same way. talk to the teacher, and maybe just wait outside
 

Ledan

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Apr 15, 2009
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Still Life said:
Ledan said:
Still Life said:
I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.
I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't removing footwear a symbolic gesture of faith in a mosque?

Great point, though.
I don't know if removing your footwear is a symbolic gesture of faith, but I relate it to the Swedish and Japanese custom of removing your shoes before going inside someone's home.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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"I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs."

If you're saying you're an atheist, the only thing that characterises us is that we don't believe in God. Anyway, wearing a cap doesn't mean you're participating, just that you're not being a dick.

Honestly, I think religion is infantile at best, but you aren't being asked to pray or have your foreskin cut off before you enter, so what difference does it make? Its such a non-issue you can't even claim its a matter of principle.

I was accepted to a 6th Form that was Catholic, but had mandatory prayer sessions about points during the term (in spite of them claiming the school was not only for Catholics), and so I went somewhere else on the principles that education and my religion (or lack thereof) should have nothing to do with each other, and that they were being hypocritical, and that I am against religious schools anyway. If I hadn't of had to do anything other than wear a specific article of clothing that didn't bear any relation to anything else anyway, I'd have probably considered it more.
 

Sun Flash

Fus Roh Dizzle
Apr 15, 2009
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Meh. OP's situation is like going to a funeral and being dressed for rave. Just show a bit of respect and put the cap on. You're not being indoctrinated into the religion, just being asked to play by it's rules in it's house.
 

Verlander

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Apr 22, 2010
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Edit: Most of this had already been cleared up, but my opinion anyway:

Respect for other religions is that you do not purposefully antagonise them. Wearing an item of clothing does not mean that they are forcing their belief onto you, it is a sign of respect. In some countries it is custom to remove your shoes before entering a house, and definitely for eating with them (some extend this to restaurants). Would you refuse this, as it is not to do with your culture?

Respect is a two way street. If you want them to respect you, you need to be able to show some humility and respect back to them.

I applaud that you went to the synagogue and museum, as understanding world cultures is essential in life. If more people were able to open mindedly learn about other people and the way they are, rather than jumping to rash decisions, stereotypes and bigotry, then the world would be a better, more peaceful place.
 

TheAbominableDan

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Jun 2, 2009
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
TheAbominableDan said:
It doesn't sound like they're asking you to change your beliefs, unless you believe that wearing a skullcap in a Jewish synagogue makes you a Jew.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2084871_be-respectful-visiting-jewish-synagogue.html
Number five on that list, kiss anything holy that falls on the ground, including the cap, that confirms in my mind that it is not just a hat, but something with a deep religious connection and symbology.

TheAbominableDan said:
TacticalAssassin1 said:
The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.
From what i understand the hat itself is a religious symbol. One whose purpose is to remind you of gods place above you. As a person who does not believe in the existence of god/s i would not feel comfortable wearing such an item that is identified with god/s. Furthermore, i would suggest that being forced to wear one shows a lack of respect for my beliefs.
If I were you OP i would politely decline the cap and wait outside. Your school cannot force you to obey a religious practice.
Yeah I went to synagogue every Saturday for years, went to Hebrew school every week for years and I've never heard of the kiss it if it falls on the ground rule. Mine fell on the ground a lot. So that's just ehow being weird.
 

PandaPoster

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Mar 28, 2011
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Same thing happened at VAMPY when my sister went,
But if you are christain or muslim it really should matter since the kippah is just saying that you respect and love God, Now if your atheist,hindu,buddhist,etc. and you don't want to wear one just ask the person respectful that you'd rather not, i think the person with the hat would understand
 

Saviordd1

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Jan 2, 2011
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Their asking you to put on a hat, not go down on a knee and pledge allegiance to their god, calm down and get over it.