Researchers Remotely Control Cockroaches With Electronic Backpack

[Saulkar]

Are we really as cruel as the cruelest aliens that come from our imaginations?

I cannot see why not given that such traits are usually that of the most successful animals. That or complete apathy, the lion does not feel any remorse or sadism when it hunts and kills. The same is completely inverse for dolphins and primates, those savage, lovable fuckers.

 

[cookyt]

Every time there's a science thread, there's always some cry of "why are they doing X when they could be curing cancer?!" As if there was only one scientist in the world who REALLY wanted to do all this cool stuff, but everybody wants him to cure cancer instead. Granted, at least half of these statements are probably jokes, but that makes me worry for the other half.

Anyway, remote-controlled roaches: pretty cool idea. I wonder what the range on those transceivers is. If we can produce the circuitry cheaply enough, the possibilities are endless. I can see the military taking this up, of course, but what about using them to explore small areas that would otherwise be unreachable. Take a stroll around the finer parts of the NYC sewer system, or maybe use them to explore deeper into caves where the crevices are too small for a person to fit. Maybe we can attach a camera to one as well. I've always wondered what Chernobyl looks like from the inside.

 

[yuval152]

Every cockroach that walk near me is dead anyways, so I don't care. I wish could put an jetpack to my dog, will make walking with him way more fun.

 

[chadachada123]

Dear god the cockroach-lovers(?) are in full force today.

A cockroach does not have anything near the level of consciousness that even the most primitive vertebrate has, and cannot feel pain (or hunger). Even its 'fear response' is not going to be linked to anything other than raw instinct and certainly not tied to any thought processes, making a comparison to, say, a dog or rat completely unwarranted.

Can we stop torturing bugs like children and work on curing AIDS or something?

Did you even read the article? Not only will this have major applications for disaster relief, but it's advancing immensely our understanding of neurology and how it meshes with biology, which, long-term, is pretty damn useful for humanity. This data, when combined with various other cyborg-based technology like the dead moth and dead rat whose brains were used to control machinery, will be able to be taken by other researchers and probably be used to find real-world applications or even used to find the cause/cure of some neurological disorder.

Besides, these are electrical engineers. Why in the hell would they be wasting resources trying to find cures for viral diseases?

 

[chadachada123]

Dear god the cockroach-lovers(?) are in full force today.

A cockroach does not have anything near the level of consciousness that even the most primitive vertebrate has, and cannot feel pain (or hunger). Even its 'fear response' is not going to be linked to anything other than raw instinct and certainly not tied to any thought processes, making a comparison to, say, a dog or rat completely unwarranted.

Can we stop torturing bugs like children and work on curing AIDS or something?

Did you even read the article? Not only will this have major applications for disaster relief, but it's advancing immensely our understanding of neurology and how it meshes with biology, which, long-term, is pretty damn useful for humanity. This data, when combined with various other cyborg-based technology like the dead moth and dead rat whose brains were used to control machinery, will be able to be taken by other researchers and probably be used to find real-world applications or even used to find the cause/cure of some neurological disorder.

Besides, these are electrical engineers. Why in the hell would they be wasting resources trying to find cures for viral diseases?

Or, how about we don't torture animals and use them like tools? Okay, cool.

It's not torture, because it's a cockroach, as I explained. If this was a dog, then you would have a point.

"Okay, cool."

 

[rdaleric]

Oh great, looks like some scientists have read we3 and totally missed the point of that comic. Grant Morrison will be annoyed

 

[chadachada123]

It's not torture, because it's a cockroach, as I explained. If this was a dog, then you would have a point.

Oh, I forgot how torturing things is cool if you don't care for the victim. Awesome morality.

It's not about 'caring,' it's about the fact that cockroaches don't think or feel in any sense that would warrant using the word torture.

To reiterate: mammals can feel pain. Most fish can feel pain. Reptiles (last I checked) can feel pain. Birds can feel pain. Lobsters cannot feel pain. Cockroaches cannot feel pain. This reason alone already makes any physical damage to a cockroach not even remotely comparable to doing the same to a healthy vertebrate, without even including the differences in thought processes.

Edited to remove snark.

 

[chadachada123]

It's not torture, because it's a cockroach, as I explained. If this was a dog, then you would have a point.

Oh, I forgot how torturing things is cool if you don't care for the victim. Awesome morality.

It's not about 'caring,' it's about the fact that cockroaches don't think or feel in any sense that would warrant using the word torture.

To reiterate: mammals can feel pain. Most fish can feel pain. Reptiles (last I checked) can feel pain. Birds can feel pain. Lobsters cannot feel pain. Cockroaches cannot feel pain. This reason alone already makes any physical damage to a cockroach not even remotely comparable to doing the same to a healthy vertebrate, without even including the differences in thought processes.

Edited to remove snark.

Oh, sorry, I was waiting for you to prove any of those claims. I'll continue not enjoying the cruelty and abuse until you get around to showing some.

Which claims, exactly, do you want proof for?

After searching for a bit, it appears that I had originally only read articles arguing that lobsters do not feel pain, and thought this to be the case. Apparently, according to Wikipedia at least, the question is "unresolved." I can admit that the data for lobsters is inconclusive.

Regarding MOST invertebrates, though:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

According to this official Canadian report, most invertebrates most likely do not feel pain, with the inclusion of pain receptors meaning nothing since they don't have the brain power necessary to *feel* pain, even if they react to stimuli in a negative manner.

The main reason that I assert that most invertebrates can't feel pain is that they lack the neocortex that mammals have to feel pain, and we currently do not have any models for pain reception that don't include them, to my knowledge.

Could cockroaches feel pain? Yes, if a method for feeling pain without a neocortex exists. Is such a method understood? Not as far as I know, no.

 

[Sovereignty]

Why are so many people sorry for the roach? Roaches don't have emotions... Maybe i'm just biased cause I have a huge phobia of roaches and would love it if they all died and went away forever.

Seriously though, we can't pick a more pleasant bug to do this? Nice beetle perhaps? If i'm trapped under the rubble of a torn down building and they send a search party of robotic roaches after me i'm squishing all the fuckers so guess i'll never be found.

I'm with this guy. Roaches gross me the hell out. Beyond that though... Bugs are sort of the only creatures I personally feel no sense of pity for. I mean, they have thousands of offspring, don't seem to be unique or independent from the others of their kind, and are generally swarm creatures.

Harming cats/dogs/birds/whales/reptiles/foul/etc sure... Sympathy, but... BUGS?

 

[thepyrethatburns]

So they've learned how to mimic Ampulex Compressa. That's kinda interesting but I'm not sure it's as practical as they're making it out to be.

I think the only reason that people (including myself) feel uneasy about it is because of the notion that this could one day be used on us. It's not like I would have a problem stepping on a roach or calling an exterminator to eliminate them if they set up in my house. Thus,I imagine that my unease is a wholly irrational response.

Either that or because this is kind of "in your face" where stepping on them is something we don't give a thought to, we're giving it more thought than we normally would.

 

[chadachada123]

Which claims, exactly, do you want proof for?

After searching for a bit, it appears that I had originally only read articles arguing that lobsters do not feel pain, and thought this to be the case. Apparently, according to Wikipedia at least, the question is "unresolved." I can admit that the data for lobsters is inconclusive.

Regarding MOST invertebrates, though:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

According to this official Canadian report, most invertebrates most likely do not feel pain, with the inclusion of pain receptors meaning nothing since they don't have the brain power necessary to *feel* pain, even if they react to stimuli in a negative manner.

The main reason that I assert that most invertebrates can't feel pain is that they lack the neocortex that mammals have to feel pain, and we currently do not have any models for pain reception that don't include them, to my knowledge.

Could cockroaches feel pain? Yes, if a method for feeling pain without a neocortex exists. Is such a method understood? Not as far as I know, no.

So, as I said, I'll carry on not enjoying the torture of animals because "well, they might not feel like us" doesn't cut it.

And I'll carry on supporting saving human lives as long as it isn't likely to cause pain to animals.

Quit bullshitting, too, it's not "well they might not feel like us," it's "we have no evidence that they feel like us." They are not equivalent.

 

[chadachada123]

And I'll carry on supporting saving human lives as long as it isn't likely to cause pain to animals.

Quit bullshitting, too, it's not "well they might not feel like us," it's "we have no evidence that they feel like us." They are not equivalent, as anyone that actually understands the scientific method would know.

Yeah, no. Torture isn't my thing. I'll carry on not using animals like tools to be bent to our will. You... do whatever it is you do.

Saving human life. That is both what I support, what my current job entails (lifeguard), and what my future career will entail (obstetrician/gynecologist). That...is what I do.