River Song (Doctor Who)
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She's not a timelord on account of the whole 'being killed by the Vashta Narada' thing. If she were, she'd have regenerated.
The theory I am toying with myself is that she IS the Doctor. His next regeneration.
-When first regenerating from the 10th to 11th Doctor, he first thought that he might have been a girl. Suggesting that this is indeed a possibility.
-In The Next Doctor he did not realize until a little ways in that Jackson Lake was not actually his next regeneration, possibly lending at least an educated guess to a timelord's "Spidey sense" not being able to tell that they are meeting themselves (He did not theorize until LATER that Lake might have been using the Chameleon Arch)
-The 10th doctor already established in Time Crash that various regenerations can think of previous ones as other individuals and even revere them or have other emotions that one would normally feel for another person, as opposed to themselves.
-I have never seen the older series, so I couldn't say if the TARDIS appears to fly "smoother" than it has since the 9th doctor started manning the controls. If it did, it could be one of these regenerations that River "learned" from.
-The case of her "Killing the best man she knew" could be a metaphor for her replacing the 11th Doctor (Ala the statements by the 10th doctor in human form as John Smith towards Martha when she tries to convince him to become the Doctor again.)
-When first regenerating from the 10th to 11th Doctor, he first thought that he might have been a girl. Suggesting that this is indeed a possibility.
-In The Next Doctor he did not realize until a little ways in that Jackson Lake was not actually his next regeneration, possibly lending at least an educated guess to a timelord's "Spidey sense" not being able to tell that they are meeting themselves (He did not theorize until LATER that Lake might have been using the Chameleon Arch)
-The 10th doctor already established in Time Crash that various regenerations can think of previous ones as other individuals and even revere them or have other emotions that one would normally feel for another person, as opposed to themselves.
-I have never seen the older series, so I couldn't say if the TARDIS appears to fly "smoother" than it has since the 9th doctor started manning the controls. If it did, it could be one of these regenerations that River "learned" from.
-The case of her "Killing the best man she knew" could be a metaphor for her replacing the 11th Doctor (Ala the statements by the 10th doctor in human form as John Smith towards Martha when she tries to convince him to become the Doctor again.)
*THIS IS (PROBABLY) A HUGE SPOILER*
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**River Song kills the Doctor.**
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I mean it obviously fits. Besides that, I don't think River has any real correlation with the Doctor. At some point a young River meets a Doctor and over the course of her life she becomes a Doctor onto herself.
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**River Song kills the Doctor.**
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I mean it obviously fits. Besides that, I don't think River has any real correlation with the Doctor. At some point a young River meets a Doctor and over the course of her life she becomes a Doctor onto herself.
I am on board with the Jenny Theory and completely doubt the other time-lord and spouse theory:
1) The Doctor would know a time lord or lady. Chameleon Arch is pointless cause River wouldn't even know that and it would have very little interesting or non-alienating plot possibilities.
2) If you look back at the Library episodes, the dialogue doesn't truly imply husband-wife. It could refer to any close relationship including things like father/daughter picnics.
Also, the hint that River kills the doctor would not be far off from Jenny's upbringing as a warrior, especially if she doesn't realize who he is after regeneration(s).
3) Would the doctor ever really truly marry anyone? Really? Barring a Las Vegas mentality, with all the relationships and emotional baggage he is carrying and dangerous life-style, would he knowingly do it in this part of his life.
Note: All though I don't believe the wife theory and am pulling for the Jenny theory, River could be a "true" mate liken to Rose but more explored, not to be confused with Donna as a "proper" mate.
1) The Doctor would know a time lord or lady. Chameleon Arch is pointless cause River wouldn't even know that and it would have very little interesting or non-alienating plot possibilities.
2) If you look back at the Library episodes, the dialogue doesn't truly imply husband-wife. It could refer to any close relationship including things like father/daughter picnics.
Also, the hint that River kills the doctor would not be far off from Jenny's upbringing as a warrior, especially if she doesn't realize who he is after regeneration(s).
3) Would the doctor ever really truly marry anyone? Really? Barring a Las Vegas mentality, with all the relationships and emotional baggage he is carrying and dangerous life-style, would he knowingly do it in this part of his life.
Note: All though I don't believe the wife theory and am pulling for the Jenny theory, River could be a "true" mate liken to Rose but more explored, not to be confused with Donna as a "proper" mate.
Now, I've been wondering about something.
In the library episodes, River Song was initially under the impression that the Doctor knew who she was. But this makes no sense at all, unless I'm forgetting an episode, and I don't think I am. Since she never met him when he was in that particular regeneration aside from on that occasion, how is it possible that she thinks he knew who she was?
[hr]
Now it could be that this was simply a mistake, but I doubt that. I'm pretty sure the producers would be able to spot it if it was an error, so that seems unlikely.
Her being Jenny... I must admit that was intriguing, and that was my first thought on the matter really. But because of her attitude towards the doctor, it leads me to doubt that... although I guess in a way it would partially account for the above issue, albeit rather badly.
Her being Susan Foreman... I don't get that at all. It simply doesn't fit in my mind, and I cant think of a single argument to support it aside from "She's a female time lord", which I consider weak really.
The Rani suggestion... I cant really say much about it, since I've never seen any episodes with her in. However, from what the wiki page told me, I do consider the idea more likely then any of the suggested alternatives.
Eh, just my thoughts on the matter.
[hr]
Now it could be that this was simply a mistake, but I doubt that. I'm pretty sure the producers would be able to spot it if it was an error, so that seems unlikely.
Her being Jenny... I must admit that was intriguing, and that was my first thought on the matter really. But because of her attitude towards the doctor, it leads me to doubt that... although I guess in a way it would partially account for the above issue, albeit rather badly.
Her being Susan Foreman... I don't get that at all. It simply doesn't fit in my mind, and I cant think of a single argument to support it aside from "She's a female time lord", which I consider weak really.
The Rani suggestion... I cant really say much about it, since I've never seen any episodes with her in. However, from what the wiki page told me, I do consider the idea more likely then any of the suggested alternatives.
Eh, just my thoughts on the matter.
Nah, your first point is easy explained...Azraellod said:
She thinks he's a *future* incarnation of the Doctor, not a past one. She thinks he knows her because she think's he's older than the Doctor's she's travelled with, until she recognizes how "young" he looks. Then from that point on she knows he's not met her before.
Dalar_ca said:
I was actually under the impression that she knew the order of the doctor's incarnations. However, looking over things I cant remember where I got that idea, and your explanation does seem to answer the question pretty well.
Furthermore, welcome to the escapist. I hope you enjoy your time here, you are very much welcome.
I have two theories... since I believe either could be dead wrong:
- future regeneration of the doctor, while I was going to point out the fact he did check to see if he was a bloke, but in Time of Angels I think there was a bit of a hint on the 'marriage' angle. She hints at being married to the doctor a few times, and the doctor pointed out how the future church was against 'self marriage' and Amy commented on how that would have a messy divorce. If the doctor were to self marry it would tie everything up in a nice little bow. She also refers to the blue journal as 'our diary.' The killing the best man she has known doesn't have to even be the doctor. It could be literal in that she killed a man, as in human. The only thing that I can't get to connect to this theory is her taste for guns vs. the doctor's distaste for guns.
- Amy Pond. She could be in a future situation to have to kill Rory, which would leave her available. I could see Amy calling Rory the best man she has known. The diary was blank when she looked at it... which could be her not yet having written in it. Also note... Amy always has a watch on if her wrists are exposed. So much surrounding her is missing.
- future regeneration of the doctor, while I was going to point out the fact he did check to see if he was a bloke, but in Time of Angels I think there was a bit of a hint on the 'marriage' angle. She hints at being married to the doctor a few times, and the doctor pointed out how the future church was against 'self marriage' and Amy commented on how that would have a messy divorce. If the doctor were to self marry it would tie everything up in a nice little bow. She also refers to the blue journal as 'our diary.' The killing the best man she has known doesn't have to even be the doctor. It could be literal in that she killed a man, as in human. The only thing that I can't get to connect to this theory is her taste for guns vs. the doctor's distaste for guns.
- Amy Pond. She could be in a future situation to have to kill Rory, which would leave her available. I could see Amy calling Rory the best man she has known. The diary was blank when she looked at it... which could be her not yet having written in it. Also note... Amy always has a watch on if her wrists are exposed. So much surrounding her is missing.
Why would Jenny know his name?
I just think River Song is her own character. If I wanted to get into fan-wank territory I'd say Romana, because I adore Romana, but she isn't like any Time Lord character we've yet met in who-dom. Maybe she's a Time Lord, but not a former companion.
Closest thing I can think of is Ace, who (depending on which spin offs you read) may or may not have gone to Gallifrey to become a Time Lord. River's personality is a little like Ace, and if Ace became a Time Lord (how does that work, anyway?) before the Time War began, it would fit with continuity. Ace certainly wouldn't obey the non-interference laws after any time with the Doctor.
Of course, this whole theory depends on the expanded universe being canon.
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I just think River Song is her own character. If I wanted to get into fan-wank territory I'd say Romana, because I adore Romana, but she isn't like any Time Lord character we've yet met in who-dom. Maybe she's a Time Lord, but not a former companion.
Closest thing I can think of is Ace, who (depending on which spin offs you read) may or may not have gone to Gallifrey to become a Time Lord. River's personality is a little like Ace, and if Ace became a Time Lord (how does that work, anyway?) before the Time War began, it would fit with continuity. Ace certainly wouldn't obey the non-interference laws after any time with the Doctor.
Of course, this whole theory depends on the expanded universe being canon.
[/nerdage]
