Rogue One may be the worst Star Wars movie to date

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Cold Shiny

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I'm gonna blow the minds of every single person here. Ready?


I love the originals, I loved TFA, AND I loved Rogue One.


How about that? Mind blown, right?
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Prequels still suck
 

Hawki

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Cold Shiny said:
I'm gonna blow the minds of every single person here. Ready?


I love the originals, I loved TFA, AND I loved Rogue One.


How about that? Mind blown, right?
Fanboy, I say, fanboy! :p

But hey, you want your mind blown? Here's how I rank the films:

9) The Clone Wars

8) Attack of the Clones

7) Rogue One

6) The Phantom Menace

5) The Force Awakens

4) The Empire Strikes Back

3) Revenge of the Sith

2) Return of the Jedi

1) A New Hope

...come at me!

Ezekiel said:
Action scenes are usually more breathtaking and intense when they're somewhat grounded. Why do you think people liked the lightsaber battle in VII so much?
Wait, people liked that scene? I've never heard anyone praise it, even those who like TFA. For me, it's the worst lightsaber duel in all the movies, without any payoff on the wow or emotional factors.

Ezekiel said:
Lucas modeled his battles after WWII dogfights, which is what made them so engaging. JJ Abrams totally ignored that.
If you're going for realism, then that's hardly an endorsement, since fighting in a vacuum shouldn't function anything like fighting in atmosphere. But while I can fault TFA for quite a bit, I can't fault Poe's piloting skills, least in that scene - not when you consider the type of setting Star Wars is. If anything, piloting a TIE fighter and single-handedly knocking out a Star Destroyer's weapons is the larger leap of faith, or Han being so good that he can draw the Millennium Falcon out of hyperspace within a planet's atmosphere (i.e. coming to the exact point required while travelling at over the speed of light).
 

Metalix Knightmare

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McElroy said:
Fox12 said:
By any standard of quality you choose to use, TFA was a bad film.
You say this but you only covered bad writing. Are you sure you're not (let's say 40-50%) full of shit? Give us other standards of quality that TFA doesn't meet. I want to know because I want to hate it too >:^)
Well, Rey's facial expressions tend to be rather wonky. Not NEARLY a good reason to even bash on the film, let alone hate it, but Daisy Ridley's facial expressions are just weird to me. It's like she regularly makes some new form of duck face...


Seriously, what's UP with that? Who makes a face like that when aiming a gun? Then there's her angry face.


Or her running face where she has her teeth exposed like she's filtering out the air or something.


Again, not even a reason to bash the movie, but Daisy needs to work on her facial expressions when acting. I know overacting facial expressions have always been a thing in this series, but they were called for with the first two trilogies. The characters were either in great pain or horrible emotional distress. Rey just...does them.
 

The Lunatic

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I can't say I much enjoyed The Force Awakens that much. Mary Sue's Adventure in the Star War's Universe didn't appeal much to me.

So, I'll probably skip Rogue One.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Samtemdo8 said:
The only Star Wars movie that would interest me is a Stand Alone Darth Vader movie as the protaginist.
Ezekiel said:
Samtemdo8 said:
The only Star Wars movie that would interest me is a Stand Alone Darth Vader movie as the protaginist.
Only if it's a slice of life, showing how miserable it is to be Darth Vader.
I don't want Vader to be glorified any more than he already has been. The entire film series has featured Anakin now. Let it go.
I don't know, I can sort of see the value in it but mainly because Revenge of the Sith screwed the pooch by having Anakin murder the Jedi younglings, something that is just fucking reprehensible, as opposed to maybe slaying his fellow Knight-Generals in combat to give weight to the belief that his (short-term) gains by turning to the Dark Side could prevent the death of his wife and children so I think a movie that might hint or give direction to the goodness Luke claims still resides in his father's heart actually existing could work.


In fact it might even make a good sort of political thriller that starts off with some wag attempting to assassinate The Emperor and Vader has to work with the Imperial Security Bureau to ferret out the assassin. I'd also like to see the Empire taking some active steps to stem the rebellion the smart way mainly by not being stupid assholes: I mean I don't get the feeling the Stormtroopers are reluctant conscripts or the conditioned from birth type like in the First Order. Darth Vader is a murderous bastard, but I figure he's still got a hate-boner for slavers so perhaps when he discovers that the assassin was really an unsuited amateur being forced at figurative blaster point to do this lest his or her family become the latest playthings of some rich deviant pricks; he instead frames the slave trader as the assassin and then gets to conduct a purge of Imperial officers and supporters engaging in it under the guise of rooting out an attempted coup by corrupt officers.

I think it would work because we hate people like that, and while it's satisfying in most movies to see the SWAT team kick the door in and see law and order win the day it is equally if not more satisfying to see total bottom feeders like this squeal like piglets when the realize they've attracted the attention of someone far more dangerous than they're capable of handling. I mean even then Vader would only be doing 'good' because it's something that personally shits him AND he's been led there by other matters rather than any bizarre altruism on his part.
 

Silence

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You know, the movie was actually pretty good.

Bet these people are pissed by the ending.

edit: And I actually do not like the Star Wars background/world at all, usually. This one actually broke the stupid stupid thing, and made sense. And it did not even go against something previous established, it just showed how unbalanced the scales are.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Saw it just tonight.

It's a mixed bag.

The start is extremely disjointed, with lots of rapid cuts to different planets and a lot of unnecessary exposition (yes, we know the Imperials are building a planet-killer). The two main leads (Jyn and...whoever the other guy was called) are unlikable and poorly performed, and they get a very ham-handed romance in the last half that comes out of nowhere and just looks...eugh. At least it's better than Anakin and Padme.

The first segment of the film is, honestly, kind of a waste of time. Saw Gerrera shows up, is cool for a while, then does nothing. In general, until the midpoint the narrative is rocky, the special effects suck, the dialogue is crappy and laden with exposition (just to make sure that you know that there's a Death Star, but - get this - it has a weakness!!!), there's one incredibly forced cameo that makes no sense in retrospect, and it all turns out to be pointless.

The few high points during the first half were a handful of lines from the droid, Donnie Yen's introduction (all of Donnie Yen, basically), and one or two key scenes that establish that the Rebel Alliance are not all saints and martyrs. In the end, though, the moral ambiguity just does nothing but make me stop caring; the unscrupulous Rebel general pursues a plan that - without spoiling anything - makes no sense in context, and what should have been a mid-film reveal is instead literally stated out aloud by two characters at two separate points in the film.

Then it hits the mid-way point, and it starts to get better. The special effects make a huge jump in quality, leading me to think the earlier segments were mostly reshoots. Donnie Yen and his buddy are great. There's a gorgeous destruction scene involving the Death Star that really deserves a medal. Then the action hits Scarif, and it basically gets great. It's an extended, forty-minute-long war sequence, essentially. You've got AT-ATs, starfighters, star destroyers, there's lasers everywhere, everything explodes - it's great. You can see that this is where the work got put in. The film's central conflict ends nicely, the villain is defeated by irony, everyone gets a chance to shine during the long ensemble action sequences, Scarif is just beautiful, and I don't want to spoil anything but it's sad, and...

...then there's an incredibly forced coda, complete with CGI Carrie Fisher, which exists solely to tie the film in to A New Hope down to the establishing shot. It's awful. It also makes no sense; it shows Bail Organa saying "I'm going to go to Alderaan, wink wink nudge nudge, I know a girl," there's a shot of R2-D2 and C-3PO on Yavin, and then...for some reason Leia and her ship, complete with two droids, are on Scarif later to receive the Death Star plans and flee into hyperspace. It doesn't make any goddamn sense; why would you bring a protocol droid on a warship, why would Leia - a politician - be on the ship and at the battle, why wouldn't she be at Alderaan where we were just told she was, if it was a warship why did Leia insist it was a diplomatic vessel in A New Hope, just...very forced. A disappointing way to end the film.

On cameos: Grand Moff Tarkin makes an extended appearance that some reviewers said was very jarring, because he's being played by CGI Peter Cushing. The CGI is of extremely high quality, but the uncanny valley is still very noticeable. Weirdly, it didn't bother me that much, and when I thought about it I realised why; Tarkin is meant to be creepy and unsettling. Having CGI!Tarkin slam face-first into the uncanny valley works, because it creeps you out to look at the guy! He doesn't look human!

Vader gets a couple of cameos; one in the middle, which is done very well, and one in the end, which literally gave me an erection. He gets to show off, is what I'm saying. He's ultimately tangential to the plot - I was kind of expecting him to have more weight, but maybe they're saving that for a Vader standalone - but he does get to show us all why every Jedi in the galaxy was pissing their pants at the mere mention of this guy's name.

As a final note; if you didn't like TFA because of Daisy Ridley or whatever, blah blah affirmitative action blah Mary Sues blah blah, you won't like Jyn Erso. While I wasn't bothered at all by Ridley's performance in TFA because I found her endearingly earnest, Felicity Jones just really rubs me the wrong way. She's the focus of the plot, and I don't understand why. She has no character development, her sole motivation is finding her father - who similarly gets very little characterisation beyond being a walking plot device - and right at the end of the film she turns into a nigh-suicidal idealist with no real reason other than because the film needs someone to stand up and say something inspiring. All this when any sane person who went through her story would feel disillusioned and betrayed. Her dialogue is awful, both in content and in delivery, and until the climax on Scarif, I literally didn't care about her at all.

But the climax on Scarif is great, some of the visuals - mostly destruction sequences - are wonderful, and the side characters steal the show more than once. I started out unimpressed, then actively peeved, but the last half was a steady improvement leading to a great climax. Without the Leia cameo, it would've been a wonderful way to end the film on a high note.

Overall, a good film but very inconsistent, with clear signs of high-quality special effects and cinematography in the climax sandwiched between a very clumsy and almost shoddily-made opening act and a painfully artificial ending that comes five or ten minutes after the narrative had hit its climax.

(I would blame studio-mandated reshoots for this, as it's difficult to reconcile the gap in quality otherwise, and I really hope that this (along with BvS and Suicide Squad) doesn't start a trend.)

Edit: Oh! Final point: the soundtrack is...bizarre. It's like watching Frankenstein lurch around the place. You're thinking, "oh, this is the Star Wars soundtrack, yeah," and then it just goes somewhere else, and not in a good way, in a weird and bland way that leaves you feeling like you tried to remember the Star Wars theme but got Raiders of the Lost Ark instead.

It's the uncanny valley, but for sound. Awful. Awful, awful, awful.
 

RaikuFA

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Saw it last night. First half is boring and the 2nd half is worth it IMO. Better than CW where it was boring from beginning to end.
 

Zontar

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RaikuFA said:
Saw it last night. First half is boring and the 2nd half is worth it IMO. Better than CW where it was boring from beginning to end.
So it's better then the worst SW movie to date. I wouldn't call that a resounding endorsement tbh, but hey from the sounds of it half a decent movie is still in the upper half of quality for the franchise given the prequels and FA.
 
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Zontar said:
Gethsemani said:
Considering that Toy Story 3 is often seen as one of the premier children's movies of our generation
By some, maybe. Guess having not seen the original two at the right age made the nostalgia not factor in for me, so I could see the gaping flaws the movie had (it's a solid 8, I'll admit, but it's no 9, and it's definitely no 10).
Do you think you're objectively correct about everything you believe? I mean seriously, now anyone who praises Toy Story is just blinded by nostalgia rather than having any cogent argument to back up their opinion.
 

Zontar

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TheMajesticSpaceDuck said:
Do you think you're objectively correct about everything you believe?
Nope, not at all, though that assumption is odd given there's nothing in my comment that implies that was the case, so that's an odd question to come out of nowhere.

But in any event, if you're really going to argue that Toy Story 3 deserves a 99% rating, then you're going to have to actually prove it, because you're the one making an objective claim (that being that Toy Story 3 is one of the greatest movies ever made). Given how the score is almost entirely nostalgia driven (a perfect case in point being countries that didn't have the original two released theatrically giving a significantly lower score to the movie) and the fact the movie has quite a few problems, that's going to be one hell of an uphill argument.

In any event, I've always been open about the fact my own taste is far from great. My favourite movies are ones I wouldn't give more then a 6 to, and some of my favourite games are ones I can understand someone saying it sucks.
 
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Zontar said:
TheMajesticSpaceDuck said:
Do you think you're objectively correct about everything you believe?
Nope, not at all, though that assumption is odd given there's nothing in my comment that implies that was the case, so that's an odd question to come out of nowhere.

But in any event, if you're really going to argue that Toy Story 3 deserves a 99% rating, then you're going to have to actually prove it, because you're the one making an objective claim (that being that Toy Story 3 is one of the greatest movies ever made). Given how the score is almost entirely nostalgia driven (a perfect case in point being countries that didn't have the original two released theatrically giving a significantly lower score to the movie) and the fact the movie has quite a few problems, that's going to be one hell of an uphill argument.

In any event, I've always been open about the fact my own taste is far from great. My favourite movies are ones I wouldn't give more then a 6 to, and some of my favourite games are ones I can understand someone saying it sucks.
You're statement does seem to imply that that's the only reason to rate Toy Story 3 so highly. But if that wasn't how you meant it my bad. I'll drop it.

That's not entirely how reviews work. Also if you're referring to Toy Story's Rotten Tomatoes score that doesn't mean that it has a review score of 99% it just means that 99% of critics on RT gave it a positive review which can range from (I think) 3/5,6/10 or 60% and above. But movies aren't all reviewed on a the same scale. Any 10/10 movie is not being compared to Citizen Kane.
 

Frankster

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Happyninja42 said:
Like me for example, I can't stand the Thrawn trilogy, despite the majority of Star Wars fans considering it the fucking holy grail of writing. I think it's utter shit and that Thrawn is a ridiculous Marty Stu character.
I like the Thrawn trilogy but i don't think you're wrong in calling him a Marty Stu xD I guess part of thrawn's appeal is he is a marty stu for the empire, and when you're kind of sick of the rebels always having everything magically work out for them (will of the force and all that), it was nice having a character on the imperial side who could out-stu them. Even Ackbar, who gets transformed in the EU as some uber military master mind stu (all because he said "it's a trap" in return of the jedi you see, fully demonstrating his grasp of strategy and the obvious) meets his match here.

Ezekiel said:
He takes out eleven TIE fighters and some ground troops in twenty seconds. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
Even today after much time has passed, that scene still pisses me off.
Fuck Poe with a rusty fork, despise that character with the intensity of a thousand suns.
I suppose i should be grateful though, people get defensive when i hate on Rey , but Poe at least is an acceptable target for my disdain.