Samus Aran: Who cares about over-sexualization?

[Erttheking]

And here's the thing. They wouldn't.

You only think they wouldn't because you're convinced real world physics is at play.

Isn't the problem more that there is a zero-suit version in the first place? I mean we don't have zero suit Solid Snake outside of deviant art

Only a problem for the anti-sexualization crowd. That quote was just pointing out the weirdness of the character consistency argument.

And...I don't think and the game could still get by with an E rating if they put zero-Snake in.

In order for me to not be convinced real world physics are at play, willing suspension of disbelief needs to come in. These heels do nothing to suspend by disbelief. They shatter the illusion.

Mario shoots fire out of his hands. Peach can pull a never ending supply of turnips from the ether. Everyone can double jump and most can triple jump. One of the characters is a 2d LCD projection.

And you are unable to believe that real world physics are not at play?

All of those are part of their worlds.

Double jumping is not part of most of their worlds, and Peach can't pull infinite turnip from nowhere in her games, and Mario can normally only shoot fire if he is fire Mario.

And here's the thing that sets them apart from the heels. The execution is convincing.

If you say so. To me the execution is no more convincing or not convincing. How is Mario shooting fire from his hand or infinite turnips or double jumping any more convincing than gaudy rocket heels?

I mean, sure, if that is what you think it is what you think. And that's fine. I just can't detect any rhyme or reason behind that opinion. That's all I am saying.

Ok, that was a bad argument. Double jumping makes sense within the world of Smash Brothers, there are some things every character can do, like double jump, send people flying with a punch and use all of the items, those I don't mind because they feel like a part of Smash Bros, but the thing that just gets me annoyed is that people say "Smash Bros is goofy, so what if Samus has heels" despite the fact that the designs of all the other characters got through unscathed. No one stuffed Mario in a tutu and just said "Smash bros is goofy, it can take liberties" I'm kind of annoyed Samus got singled out. It's not a part of smash bros like the double jump, it happens only to Samus. And not to mention fireballs and turnips are moves that ARE from Mario, that's been part of their world so it makes sense that their special moves would reflect their world. Samus' rocket heels...not so much.

Am I making sense here?

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

I didn't even know high heels where supposed to be sexy until this controversy. I just thought that's what women wore.

They seem cool enough to me.

 

[And Man]

Personally, I never found high heels "sexy", partly because of the fact that when a woman walks in heels, it sounds like a fucking horse is clopping across the room. It's like, "Hey, who pulled out the Monty Python coconuts? Oh wait it's just someone in heels."

 

[DrOswald]

And here's the thing. They wouldn't.

You only think they wouldn't because you're convinced real world physics is at play.

Isn't the problem more that there is a zero-suit version in the first place? I mean we don't have zero suit Solid Snake outside of deviant art

Only a problem for the anti-sexualization crowd. That quote was just pointing out the weirdness of the character consistency argument.

And...I don't think and the game could still get by with an E rating if they put zero-Snake in.

In order for me to not be convinced real world physics are at play, willing suspension of disbelief needs to come in. These heels do nothing to suspend by disbelief. They shatter the illusion.

Mario shoots fire out of his hands. Peach can pull a never ending supply of turnips from the ether. Everyone can double jump and most can triple jump. One of the characters is a 2d LCD projection.

And you are unable to believe that real world physics are not at play?

All of those are part of their worlds.

Double jumping is not part of most of their worlds, and Peach can't pull infinite turnip from nowhere in her games, and Mario can normally only shoot fire if he is fire Mario.

And here's the thing that sets them apart from the heels. The execution is convincing.

If you say so. To me the execution is no more convincing or not convincing. How is Mario shooting fire from his hand or infinite turnips or double jumping any more convincing than gaudy rocket heels?

I mean, sure, if that is what you think it is what you think. And that's fine. I just can't detect any rhyme or reason behind that opinion. That's all I am saying.

Ok, that was a bad argument. Double jumping makes sense within the world of Smash Brothers, there are some things every character can do, like double jump, send people flying with a punch and use all of the items, those I don't mind because they feel like a part of Smash Bros, but the thing that just gets me annoyed is that people say "Smash Bros is goofy, so what if Samus has heels" despite the fact that the designs of all the other characters got through unscathed. No one stuffed Mario in a tutu and just said "Smash bros is goofy, it can take liberties" I'm kind of annoyed Samus got singled out. It's not a part of smash bros like the double jump, it happens only to Samus. And not to mention fireballs and turnips are moves that ARE from Mario, that's been part of their world so it makes sense that their special moves would reflect their world. Samus' rocket heels...not so much.

Am I making sense here?

That line of reasoning makes more sense, but I think I am going to have to disagree. I really don't think rocket heels are far off of design. At least they are not far off from what I would expect to see in a post credits Metroid scene, which has always been the idea behind Zero Suit Samus: What if post credits Samus (Samus without her power suit) were to fight? What kind of fighter is Samus like without her armor?

I mean, post credit Samus has always been about gaudy fan service. ZSS has always been the embodiment of that aspect of the character. Samus is the only one who gets this treatment because no one else has gaudy fan service as an especially notable part of their games.

As for significant redesigns, some other characters have gotten significant redesigns for the smash series. Fox used to be a double amputee, having removed both his legs and replaced them with robotic limbs. That got designed away for smash bros.

 

[Travis Fischer]

Because this exists:

Spoiler

Look at that. She's over six feet tall outside of armor. This picture represents everything you really need to know about Samus. No need for high heels.

This!

Forget about high heeled boots. Samus has been broken since Zero Mission when they decided to turn six feet of muscle and murder into a doe-eyed blonde with big breasts and a skintight bodysuit.

Because Samus really needed to look like every other sex symbol in gaming.

 

[DrOswald]

Because this exists:

Spoiler

Look at that. She's over six feet tall outside of armor. This picture represents everything you really need to know about Samus. No need for high heels.

This!

Forget about high heeled boots. Samus has been broken since Zero Mission when they decided to turn six feet of muscle and murder into a doe-eyed blonde with big breasts and a skintight bodysuit.

Because Samus really needed to look like every other sex symbol in gaming.

But Samus has never looked like that in game. I mean, that was super Metroid art, but in game Samus is the same super model we know today. I have seen that picture pushed around a lot, but ignoring one piece of concept art from a secondary source (one that isn't even packaged with the original game!) is hardly a retcon.

 

[Erttheking]

And here's the thing. They wouldn't.

You only think they wouldn't because you're convinced real world physics is at play.

Isn't the problem more that there is a zero-suit version in the first place? I mean we don't have zero suit Solid Snake outside of deviant art

Only a problem for the anti-sexualization crowd. That quote was just pointing out the weirdness of the character consistency argument.

And...I don't think and the game could still get by with an E rating if they put zero-Snake in.

In order for me to not be convinced real world physics are at play, willing suspension of disbelief needs to come in. These heels do nothing to suspend by disbelief. They shatter the illusion.

Mario shoots fire out of his hands. Peach can pull a never ending supply of turnips from the ether. Everyone can double jump and most can triple jump. One of the characters is a 2d LCD projection.

And you are unable to believe that real world physics are not at play?

All of those are part of their worlds.

Double jumping is not part of most of their worlds, and Peach can't pull infinite turnip from nowhere in her games, and Mario can normally only shoot fire if he is fire Mario.

And here's the thing that sets them apart from the heels. The execution is convincing.

If you say so. To me the execution is no more convincing or not convincing. How is Mario shooting fire from his hand or infinite turnips or double jumping any more convincing than gaudy rocket heels?

I mean, sure, if that is what you think it is what you think. And that's fine. I just can't detect any rhyme or reason behind that opinion. That's all I am saying.

Ok, that was a bad argument. Double jumping makes sense within the world of Smash Brothers, there are some things every character can do, like double jump, send people flying with a punch and use all of the items, those I don't mind because they feel like a part of Smash Bros, but the thing that just gets me annoyed is that people say "Smash Bros is goofy, so what if Samus has heels" despite the fact that the designs of all the other characters got through unscathed. No one stuffed Mario in a tutu and just said "Smash bros is goofy, it can take liberties" I'm kind of annoyed Samus got singled out. It's not a part of smash bros like the double jump, it happens only to Samus. And not to mention fireballs and turnips are moves that ARE from Mario, that's been part of their world so it makes sense that their special moves would reflect their world. Samus' rocket heels...not so much.

Am I making sense here?

That line of reasoning makes more sense, but I think I am going to have to disagree. I really don't think rocket heels are far off of design. At least they are not far off from what I would expect to see in a post credits Metroid scene, which has always been the idea behind Zero Suit Samus: What if post credits Samus (Samus without her power suit) were to fight? What kind of fighter is Samus like without her armor?

I mean, post credit Samus has always been about gaudy fan service. ZSS has always been the embodiment of that aspect of the character. Samus is the only one who gets this treatment because no one else has gaudy fan service as an especially notable part of their games.

As for significant redesigns, some other characters have gotten significant redesigns for the smash series. Fox used to be a double amputee, having removed both his legs and replaced them with robotic limbs. That got designed away for smash bros.

I still feel like her high heels don't make any sense, even from the perspective of the zero suit. I mean, she wears that thing inside the power suit, does that mean she has the heels on inside it? And even then it just clashes with the over aesthetic of the zero suit so much it isn't even funny.

If it's to show how Samus fights outside of the power suit I have to say it mimicks quite a few of the things she does inside the powersuit. The point of these heels seems to be to allow her to propel herself into the air, something she already did with her space jump boots.

Yeah but that's bled over to the mainstream Star Fox games. This hasn't happened with the Heels. (At least I pray to GOD it won't)

 

[Scow2]

I just hate zero-suit samus, heels or no heels on the basis that for basically being an alt-mode for her, it gets faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more attention, screen time, and advert space than....you know........like Samus-samus. srsly, google image search Samus. Not zero-suit samus, just samus.

zero suit samus didn't cement the metroidvania genre, this ***** did [http://www.smashbros.com/images/og/samus.jpg]. give that ***** the respect she deserves

Well the thing is that the suit isn't Samus. Samus is Samus whether she's in the suit or not and it would seem people prefer the Samus that actually has a face.

Next Halo game we should introduce Zero-Suit Master Chief [http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1638156458_1/2014-Summer-newest-men-s-swim-briefs-sexy-men-royal-blue-swim-shorts-men-s-Tether.jpg_220x220.jpg]. I have a feeling fans are going to love him having a face. And he's still Master Chief after all.

Have you played Mass Effect? The starting armors in those games look like what I'd expect to see Zero Suit Master Chief to look like.

... and, the opening cutscene dedicates a few seconds staring at Commander Sheppard's ass.

 

[Vivi22]

Now where was I ? oh yeh the visual difference is implied to relate to their functional difference on some level who knows maybe it's entirely possible the heels as designed as something akin to the portal boots to help lessen long falls ?

If the intent is practical, then it must be conveyed visually. This Samus design (which I'm now seeing for the first time because I couldn't care less about SSB) is not doing that. Mind you, it's not looking sexy, or even good, either. And it fails to do either of those things because whoever designed them was apparently blind and an idiot.

 

[DrOswald]

And here's the thing. They wouldn't.

You only think they wouldn't because you're convinced real world physics is at play.

Isn't the problem more that there is a zero-suit version in the first place? I mean we don't have zero suit Solid Snake outside of deviant art

Only a problem for the anti-sexualization crowd. That quote was just pointing out the weirdness of the character consistency argument.

And...I don't think and the game could still get by with an E rating if they put zero-Snake in.

In order for me to not be convinced real world physics are at play, willing suspension of disbelief needs to come in. These heels do nothing to suspend by disbelief. They shatter the illusion.

Mario shoots fire out of his hands. Peach can pull a never ending supply of turnips from the ether. Everyone can double jump and most can triple jump. One of the characters is a 2d LCD projection.

And you are unable to believe that real world physics are not at play?

All of those are part of their worlds.

Double jumping is not part of most of their worlds, and Peach can't pull infinite turnip from nowhere in her games, and Mario can normally only shoot fire if he is fire Mario.

And here's the thing that sets them apart from the heels. The execution is convincing.

If you say so. To me the execution is no more convincing or not convincing. How is Mario shooting fire from his hand or infinite turnips or double jumping any more convincing than gaudy rocket heels?

I mean, sure, if that is what you think it is what you think. And that's fine. I just can't detect any rhyme or reason behind that opinion. That's all I am saying.

Ok, that was a bad argument. Double jumping makes sense within the world of Smash Brothers, there are some things every character can do, like double jump, send people flying with a punch and use all of the items, those I don't mind because they feel like a part of Smash Bros, but the thing that just gets me annoyed is that people say "Smash Bros is goofy, so what if Samus has heels" despite the fact that the designs of all the other characters got through unscathed. No one stuffed Mario in a tutu and just said "Smash bros is goofy, it can take liberties" I'm kind of annoyed Samus got singled out. It's not a part of smash bros like the double jump, it happens only to Samus. And not to mention fireballs and turnips are moves that ARE from Mario, that's been part of their world so it makes sense that their special moves would reflect their world. Samus' rocket heels...not so much.

Am I making sense here?

That line of reasoning makes more sense, but I think I am going to have to disagree. I really don't think rocket heels are far off of design. At least they are not far off from what I would expect to see in a post credits Metroid scene, which has always been the idea behind Zero Suit Samus: What if post credits Samus (Samus without her power suit) were to fight? What kind of fighter is Samus like without her armor?

I mean, post credit Samus has always been about gaudy fan service. ZSS has always been the embodiment of that aspect of the character. Samus is the only one who gets this treatment because no one else has gaudy fan service as an especially notable part of their games.

As for significant redesigns, some other characters have gotten significant redesigns for the smash series. Fox used to be a double amputee, having removed both his legs and replaced them with robotic limbs. That got designed away for smash bros.

I still feel like her high heels don't make any sense, even from the perspective of the zero suit. I mean, she wears that thing inside the power suit, does that mean she has the heels on inside it? And even then it just clashes with the over aesthetic of the zero suit so much it isn't even funny.

The heels, like the self defense gun, are emergency survival equipment for when her suit is on the fritz. She doesn't wear them under the suit just as she does not hold the gun under the suit. The self defense stun gun is kept on her ship, I imagine the heels are kept there too.

I agree that the heels do clash with the overall design. I would actually prefer something like Chell's bouncy boots but more Samus looking? Perhaps gravity suit purple to better go with the blues of the zero suit? That would have been better.

If it's to show how Samus fights outside of the power suit I have to say it mimicks quite a few of the things she does inside the powersuit. The point of these heels seems to be to allow her to propel herself into the air, something she already did with her space jump boots.

Samus with power suit takes what we might call the direct approach. She is a heavy, relatively slow Juggernaut. Capable of acrobatics and bursts of speed, but they are brute force acrobatics and speed, lacking in finesse. The real use of her super speed is not how fast she goes but how it breaks through walls and enemies. Everything about Power Suit Samus is about brute force. An incredible amount of fire power overwhelming her enemies.

Samus without power suit is a finesse fighter, all about dodges and attacks of opportunity. The approach is a significantly lesser amount of power but delivered in a much more concentrated form. To that end the rocket heels are more about kicks than jumps. Look for that opportunity and then bring every last bit of force into that one kick. If the power suit is a sledge hammer the rocket heels are a stiletto dagger. Power to a point.

At least that is the idea.

Yeah but that's bled over to the mainstream Star Fox games. This hasn't happened with the Heels. (At least I pray to GOD it won't)

I certainly hope they don't make it into the main line games. The Zero Suit section was fun in Zero Mission, but it was a one time gimmick. Keep Samus in her suit for the main games, keep ZSS to post credits please.

 

[SD-Fiend]

And here's the thing. They wouldn't.

You only think they wouldn't because you're convinced real world physics is at play.

Isn't the problem more that there is a zero-suit version in the first place? I mean we don't have zero suit Solid Snake outside of deviant art

Only a problem for the anti-sexualization crowd. That quote was just pointing out the weirdness of the character consistency argument.

And...I don't think and the game could still get by with an E rating if they put zero-Snake in.

In order for me to not be convinced real world physics are at play, willing suspension of disbelief needs to come in. These heels do nothing to suspend by disbelief. They shatter the illusion.

Mario shoots fire out of his hands. Peach can pull a never ending supply of turnips from the ether. Everyone can double jump and most can triple jump. One of the characters is a 2d LCD projection.

And you are unable to believe that real world physics are not at play?

All of those are part of their worlds.

Double jumping is not part of most of their worlds, and Peach can't pull infinite turnip from nowhere in her games, and Mario can normally only shoot fire if he is fire Mario.

And here's the thing that sets them apart from the heels. The execution is convincing.

If you say so. To me the execution is no more convincing or not convincing. How is Mario shooting fire from his hand or infinite turnips or double jumping any more convincing than gaudy rocket heels?

I mean, sure, if that is what you think it is what you think. And that's fine. I just can't detect any rhyme or reason behind that opinion. That's all I am saying.

Ok, that was a bad argument. Double jumping makes sense within the world of Smash Brothers, there are some things every character can do, like double jump, send people flying with a punch and use all of the items, those I don't mind because they feel like a part of Smash Bros, but the thing that just gets me annoyed is that people say "Smash Bros is goofy, so what if Samus has heels" despite the fact that the designs of all the other characters got through unscathed. No one stuffed Mario in a tutu and just said "Smash bros is goofy, it can take liberties" I'm kind of annoyed Samus got singled out. It's not a part of smash bros like the double jump, it happens only to Samus. And not to mention fireballs and turnips are moves that ARE from Mario, that's been part of their world so it makes sense that their special moves would reflect their world. Samus' rocket heels...not so much.

Am I making sense here?

That line of reasoning makes more sense, but I think I am going to have to disagree. I really don't think rocket heels are far off of design. At least they are not far off from what I would expect to see in a post credits Metroid scene, which has always been the idea behind Zero Suit Samus: What if post credits Samus (Samus without her power suit) were to fight? What kind of fighter is Samus like without her armor?

I mean, post credit Samus has always been about gaudy fan service. ZSS has always been the embodiment of that aspect of the character. Samus is the only one who gets this treatment because no one else has gaudy fan service as an especially notable part of their games.

As for significant redesigns, some other characters have gotten significant redesigns for the smash series. Fox used to be a double amputee, having removed both his legs and replaced them with robotic limbs. That got designed away for smash bros.

I still feel like her high heels don't make any sense, even from the perspective of the zero suit. I mean, she wears that thing inside the power suit, does that mean she has the heels on inside it? And even then it just clashes with the over aesthetic of the zero suit so much it isn't even funny.

If it's to show how Samus fights outside of the power suit I have to say it mimicks quite a few of the things she does inside the powersuit. The point of these heels seems to be to allow her to propel herself into the air, something she already did with her space jump boots.

Yeah but that's bled over to the mainstream Star Fox games. This hasn't happened with the Heels. (At least I pray to GOD it won't)

I always found it abit odd that people think she would wear these under her Power Suit. it seems obvious (to me at least) that unlike he heels from Other M these ones are detachable and would probably be stored on her ship next to where ever she keeps the Paralyzer.

I would assume that the space jump boots are meant to augment her her armor and can't just be worn all by themselves. I haven't played the prime series yet (I plan to do so later) but on the wiki it says that the boots power up the rockets on the back of the suit despite the logbook stating that the boots have their own rockets.

 

[Phasmal]

1. Some people care, that's who. If you don't care, you don't need to be concerned about it. It is very easy to be a gamer and not care about these issues.

2. Those shoes FUGLY. Seriously.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Saying "women wear heels", as another poster did, is ignoring what we know about her as an individual character in favor of making her fit into a category better.

I never said "women wear heels", I said "women in Japanese games tend to wear high heels". Well, they tend to be a lot of very specific things, but heels are one of them.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Spoiler: This video come to mind

Haters gonna hate.

Who the fuck was that smarmy prick?

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Actually I never brought this up before. But looking at current "fashion" trends, those heels look surprisingly much like the real life variant from an actual shoe brand (I know these things because I get a crappy fashion magazine with my newspaper every weekend).

Can't put my finger on the name anymore, but they look exactly the same except Samus' have some scifi attachments and a fugly neon color makeover.

So who knows: product placement?

 

[Bad Jim]

Why does Zero Suit Samus get so much hate for her rocket heels, when Power Suit Samus has that goofy Morph Ball thing that only existed in the first place because the NES couldn't give her a wide enough sprite to crawl?

 

[irishda]

1. Some people care, that's who. If you don't care, you don't need to be concerned about it. It is very easy to be a gamer and not care about these issues.

2. Those shoes FUGLY. Seriously.

NO! I require the validation of everyone else to enjoy my hobby because my self-respect is invested in enjoying inanimate objects, and if some people criticize these objects, that threatens to invalidate my life!

 

[renegade7]

Well, I kind of do. I like Samus too much as a character to be okay with seeing her reduced to spank material. That's not about validation, it's just me saying that I think as a consumer of games I deserve a chance to say what I'd like in a game.

Plus the heels just look dumb. And from what I know of women who wear heels, I can't really imagine that they'd be extremely useful as combat gear.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I have to say, it seems totally worth it to me just for the fun of trying to imagine some high-tech space military contractor approving designs on this stuff. I imagine it went something like this.

Intern: "R&D just sent up the new designs for your approval, sir."
CEO: "Ah. Excellent.. these are the enhanced mobility combat boots, right?"
Intern: "Yes sir, apparently they've managed to incorporate considerable improvements to jump efficiency over our previous model."
CEO: "Hmm.. yes, very impressive. Styish too. The glowing neon yellow always does well in the bounty hunting sector."
Intern: "There is one problem with them, sir."
CEO: "What's that?"
Intern: "Well, you can't actually run in them safely.. also, it takes ages to get used to wearing them without considerable pain, and studies show that frequent use can cause long term damage leading to mobility loss later in life."
CEO: "No, you see.. that's the genius. What we do is we make it so that people can barely move, then they have to rely on the built in rocket assisted jumping functionality.. well.. until they land at slightly the wrong angle and end up with a sprained ankle.. actually, maybe I should check with legal about whether we'd be liable for that."
Intern: "It also looks really stupid on men."
CEO: "Well, that's fine.. we just won't sell it to men. In fact, despite the incredible utility of our product and the fact that it would clearly enhance the abilities of anyone, I strongly suspect that you will never, ever see a single male ever wearing it in our amazing futuristic world."
Intern: "Is there a reason why your office smells of gas?"
CEO: "I wouldn't worry, it's been like that for months."

 

[Nomanslander]

Because Samus Aran use to represent one of the few female characters in gaming that wasn't sexualized. Her sexual identity didn't even matter, all that mattered was she was a brave and almost fearless space bounty hunter. But, after a while they just couldn't leave it be. Especially when putting her in a zero suit.

Okay... how about this...

How would you feel if Samus Aran was actually ugly, or looked too man-ish?

Okay... how about this...

What if Master Chief under his visor is a bucktooth dork with one lazy eye?

Yeah, just as I thought!

Fact of the matter is, Samus should never be sexualized, it's not what she came to represent. And having it done so now undermines everything.