Saving Princesses

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mechashiva77

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Jul 10, 2011
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(I have no idea is this has been done before, but if it has, sorry for taking up space)

A common criticism I see of the relationships between Mario&Peach and Link&Zelda is that the princess owes him some sexual reward for their rescue, and that she's a cock-tease or a ***** for not giving some sort of sexual reward to the heroes for constantly rescuing them.

Now if they are joking, I can understand that and ignore it or laugh along with it. The Zelda sketch in Robot Chicken played it for laughs and I was ok with that.

If someone is being completely serious about the matter, then frankly I don't agree with it. Rescuing anyone should not be tied with a sexual or marriage reward. A character can hope or wish for sex or marriage all they want, but if the captive has any choice in who they get to enter a relationship with, then they have no right or entitlement to demand it from them. The captive may not be attracted to them, or have any feelings for them at all. Some may argue, "but they risked their lives for them, doesn't that earn them something?" I still don't think that's ok. No amount of blood a person has shed (either from yourself or others), or great battles they've won, or kingdoms they have toppled, allows them be entitled to bind a person who does not want them into marriage for their entire life, or use their body for sexual pleasure.

If I had to put up a example here, I would use the video where Lois from Family Guy encounters a merman. If anyone can find it, help me out here if you wish.

If you're going for a more realistic approach, then I can see how that would work. In works directed at general audiences, especially the Mario and Zelda series, sexual themes are not appropriate. If you're going for marriage, then I guess it depends on whether or not the characters love each other. If they care for each other, it does not automatically mean that they love each other. They could be best friends, or allies even. It all depends, however, on what's cannon or what people ship. Yeah, yeah, I know a lot of you cringe at the thought of shipping, but as long they're not causing any trouble, I honestly don't give a care.

If these couples do indeed love each other, then I don't understand why they haven't entered an official relationship of sorts (they could be a couple or get married right I away, I don't care honestly). If Nintendo or anyone else can give me a logical reason why not (i.e. they don't actually love each other, the kingdom's in too much turmoil constantly, they don't want a relationship), I can understand that.

The problem with finding this out is that relationships are not really an important part of the franchise. Their selling point is adventure, defeating the bad guys and bosses, gameplay, environments, and graphics. I personally wouldn't mind if their relationships came up as an important plot point some time, but I don't think that will happen in the main series. Off-spins and different media adaptations, maybe. Though, I doubt a lot of players pay attention to those.
 

tlozoot

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Feb 8, 2010
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If someone is being completely serious about the matter, then frankly I don't agree with it.

Not sure if trolling or...

Everyone is just joking about it. Nobody expects Mario to get down with Peach during the credits of a Mario game.
 

mechashiva77

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tlozoot said:
If someone is being completely serious about the matter, then frankly I don't agree with it.

Not sure if trolling or...

Everyone is just joking about it. Nobody expects Mario to get down with Peach during the credits of a Mario game.
Not trying to troll, but if I appeared to be I apologize. Ok, I was a tad confused on the whole matter.
 

tlozoot

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mechashiva77 said:
tlozoot said:
If someone is being completely serious about the matter, then frankly I don't agree with it.

Not sure if trolling or...

Everyone is just joking about it. Nobody expects Mario to get down with Peach during the credits of a Mario game.
Not trying to troll, but if I appeared to be I apologize. Ok, I was a tad confused on the whole matter.
Ha, don't worry about it. I think I was probably being harsh anyway. Welcome to the escapist by the way. Hope I didn't sour your first topic.
 

Exterminas

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Sep 22, 2009
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Half serious response:

Well, sure it should not be tied together. In a perfect world it would not be tied together.
But we don't live in a perfect world, and neither do Mario and Peach. So if someone risks their life, they will eventually ask for some kind of compensation.

And if you only wealth consists in mushrooms, sex is kind of an obvious choice, especially if you already have an emotional connection.

You demonstrated a classical fallacy: Going from the should to the is.
 

cainx10a

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I'm pretty sure we are supposed to digest all of these adventures as a childish fantasy. Link only saves Zelda because he is the valiant knight who will help anyone in distress, not because he wants to bed Zelda.
 

Kuchinawa212

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cainx10a said:
I'm pretty sure we are supposed to digest all of these adventures as a childish fantasy. Link only saves Zelda because he is the valiant knight who will help anyone in distress, not because he wants to bed Zelda.
Pretty much this
Instead of a knight in shining armor he's got some white leggings and a green hat. Both heroes get a "thanks for saving me" and go forth to the next quest.
I think it's just clean and simple as that
 

Breadzombie

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mechashiva77 said:
Some may argue, "but they risked their lives for them, doesn't that earn them something?" I still don't think that's ok. No amount of blood a person has shed (either from yourself or others), or great battles they've won, or kingdoms they have toppled, allows them be entitled to bind a person who does not want them into marriage for their entire life, or use their body for sexual pleasure.
Given the setting of the game this may or may not be true.

You are speaking from the perspective of a person living in the 21st century , modern morals and all. In their world it may be perfectly normal to ravish and/or marry a princes after you save her.
 

Erana

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cainx10a said:
I'm pretty sure we are supposed to digest all of these adventures as a childish fantasy. Link only saves Zelda because he is the valiant knight who will help anyone in distress, not because he wants to bed Zelda.
Not just that, but there's the whole, "Zelda is a mcguffin almost always needed to defeat ganon" thing.
You could replace Zelda with a magic talking toaster, and Link would have just as much incentive to go rescue it. I mean, he rarely gets to even meet Zelda more than once, if at all, before he rescues.

But Mario? I gotta wonder. Mario and Peach spend a lot of time with each other, from having cake to going on vacation...
I could easily see them as a couple, and in that case, he has more than just sex to drive him to rescue.
 

mechashiva77

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Exterminas said:
And if you only wealth consists in mushrooms, sex is kind of an obvious choice, especially if you already have an emotional connection.
I understand that our world is not perfect, but an emotional connection does not equate to a sexual or romantic attraction. Still, what if the the attraction is one-sided, does that necessarily make it fair to push an expectation of sex onto someone that may not want it? I can understand making it known that a person wants sex, but is it right to push it onto someone?

Also could you explain and show the fallacy? Not trying to sound rude, I just want to make sure I don't do it again.

EDIT: Changed "connection" to "attraction"
 

Sean Steele

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Mar 30, 2010
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Is this really a videogame thing? I mean isn't wedding, and subsequent sex the standard reward for princess rescue? Its such a cliche that a hero rescuing a princess with no romantic (and thus sexual) intentions was so silly that it was played for laughs. (ala Shrek)
 

tlozoot

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Breadzombie said:
mechashiva77 said:
Some may argue, "but they risked their lives for them, doesn't that earn them something?" I still don't think that's ok. No amount of blood a person has shed (either from yourself or others), or great battles they've won, or kingdoms they have toppled, allows them be entitled to bind a person who does not want them into marriage for their entire life, or use their body for sexual pleasure.
Given the setting of the game this may or may not be true.

You are speaking from the perspective of a person living in the 21st century , modern morals and all. In their world it may be perfectly normal to ravish and/or marry a princes after you save her.
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/motion.gif

Apparently not. =p
 

mechashiva77

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Jul 10, 2011
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Breadzombie said:
Given the setting of the game this may or may not be true.

You are speaking from the perspective of a person living in the 21st century , modern morals and all. In their world it may be perfectly normal to ravish and/or marry a princes after you save her.
For some works I can understand that yes, but I am talking about the Mario and Zelda series. Even though their technology and settings fluctuate, from my understanding they tend to follow modern morals.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Well....Most of the time, Link doesn't even really know Zelda, and has to help her because that's the best way to save the world. In most games they don't have all that much in common.

Also, in Twilight Princess, Link actually HAS a girlfriend. So he and Zelda....not likely to happen. Not that it stopped Midna from teasing Link.

As for Mario......I'm not gonna go there because I have to explanation.
 

Jordi

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I basically haven't played Mario since the first bunch of games, but does Mario really demand sexual favors from Peach? I very much doubt that. It seems to me that those things are only in the imagination of adults. Furthermore, in stories where a damsel in distress is rescued by the hero the subsequent romantic relationship that often follows doesn't seem to be a result of quid pro quo. In other words: nobody is forcing the princess to engage in a relationship with her hero, but the very fact that he rescued her makes him so attractive to her that she chooses too. Of course, this is a reward for the hero, but it is not in any way forced. And even when she isn't romantically interested in the hero, she may choose to "reward" him anyway (with a kiss or more). Of course, the hero should never expect (or demand) any reward if he is just rescuing her and no reward was agreed upon beforehand.

Furthermore, who says that Mario and Peach aren't involved with each other in between her kidnappings?
 

Caveworm

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Jun 8, 2011
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Unless Nintendo plan to do a 'teen' version. Like that episode of Itchy & Scratchy in the Simpson's were they are all grown up and being naughty. I think Scratchy has a hooker, too. ^_^
 

mechashiva77

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Jul 10, 2011
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Jordi said:
Furthermore, in stories where a damsel in distress is rescued by the hero the subsequent romantic relationship that often follows doesn't seem to be a result of quid pro quo. In other words: nobody is forcing the princess to engage in a relationship with her hero, but the very fact that he rescued her makes him so attractive to her that she chooses too. Of course, this is a reward for the hero, but it is not in any way forced. And even when she isn't romantically interested in the hero, she may choose to "reward" him anyway (with a kiss or more). Of course, the hero should never expect (or demand) any reward if he is just rescuing her and no reward was agreed upon beforehand.
I agree with that in stories the princess is portrayed as being so smitten by the prince's rescue. What bothers me is when people start to believe this is an expectation after seeing it.