Scaling monsters - Boon or Bane?

[Istanbul]

You may very well have seen it in the games you play, especially if you're a role-playing gamer.

You find a monster who's a serious challenge, so you grind for a little bit and come back...but now the monster is stronger! So you go grind a little more...and it's stronger still!

Is the idea of scaling monsters one that rewards people by forcing them to work on strategy as well as pure leveling, or is it one that punishes people by telling them that additional effort is not going to pay off in terms of an easier fight? Is this good game design?

 

[Tinman_1993]

Well the idea of scaled encounters is noble trying to make it a challenge at every level, but i find that if there are some enemies that are naturally tougher and it is hard to defeat it brings a sense of accomplishment to the gamer. I think that a great game should have a combination of the two factors. Having an entirely scaled game would be like beating Mehrunes Dagon with a level one fighter, that would just demean the player and the game

 

[Lukeman1884]

I think a mixture of both is best. Each enemy would scale, but only to a certain degree, in a certain level range.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I enjoy them. The way that Dragon Age handled the scaling was cool. It kept it challenging throughout, but as you leveled up and gained new talents, you could form new ways of taking on opponents to keep things interesting.

 

[My name is Fiction]

"I like the scaling system, a nice constant challenge."

Oh no a level 50 Mud Crab!!!

 

[Edager6882]

There is nothing more satisfying than going back to your starting area and 1 shotting all the monsters you had problems beating as a newb.

 

[Iron Lightning]

What's the point of getting stronger if every enemy does the same? If you want to keep a pretty constant challenge all throughout then just fill areas with progressively more powerful enemies.

 

[Fawcks]

Make levels set. Level scaling is dumb. If you want to make things a challenge, introduce the idea of GRINDING to those without any skill.

Those WITH skill can proceed at a lower level and work up the curve.

God Forbid another Oblivion come by... Argh. That game was PLAGUED with horrid design.

 

[Jordi]

I hate it when individual enemies or enemy classes just scale with the player, because it takes away my sense of accomplishment. However, I do want to continue to be challenged normally, so the scaling should happen by throwing different monsters at me. To me, this also makes sense. When I get stronger, I get more difficult and dangerous missions, and also I'm less likely to be attacked by weaker enemies because they should be scared of me.

 

[Gyrefalcon]

I think a mixture of both is best. Each enemy would scale, but only to a certain degree, in a certain level range.

Agreed, it is nice to have some that are below your level in order to pick off some easier prey when you need to build up experience or other points and your party is beat up. But it is nice to not run into level one creatures over and over when you are level fifty and gain no benefit and only get annoyed at lost time.

A mix of the two really do the best just as Lukeman1884 said.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Scaled random encounters, non-scaled boss battles.

"Sephiroth? I've fought chocobos tougher than him."

 

[TimeLord]

I don't know if this counts as a scaling system, but in Pokemon Soul Silver, once you defeat the Elite 4 once, and then go back, they are ridiculously stronger. So you have to then go and level up your team some more before coming back to fight them again. I like that system.

 

[WolfThomas]

It's a bane, I cite for evidence Fallout 1&2 as well as Morrowind. In these games when you got towards the end game you felt you'd really earnt how badass you were.

Also there is nothing more enjoyable than:
A. Beating overpowered enemies at a really low level through sheer luck and brilliant tactics to score awesome gear.
B. Slaughtering an enemy that would have had you wetting you pants at the start of the game with one blow.

Of course these games shouldn't be a cakewalk to finish, bigger and scarier challenges should arise but not in the form of a common bandit wearing glass armour.

If it's a hack and slash game, I like more enemies than harder ones. Makes me feel like a complete BAMF when I gut like 30 guys in a few seconds.

 

[Orange Lazarus]

Scaled random encounters, non-scaled boss battles.

"Sephiroth? I've fought chocobos tougher than him."

That's the way Final Fantasy 8 was, yes? just the randoms were scaled? Anyhow, I like it. I hate having to blow through cannon fodder enemies for little to no reward, it's a waste of time.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Scaled random encounters, non-scaled boss battles.

"Sephiroth? I've fought chocobos tougher than him."

That's the way Final Fantasy 8 was, yes? just the randoms were scaled? Anyhow, I like it. I hate having to blow through cannon fodder enemies for little to no reward, it's a waste of time.

Exactly! If I'm going to grind to level up, I don't want it to be a chore. What I do want, is to defeat cocky bosses in one hit.

 

[ScatterBen]

I can take it, though reluctantly. My beef is most definitely with scaling loot/equipment, though. I mean, you're telling me that I went all the way through that dungeon just to get this extremely bog-standard piece-of-shit sword and armor? It totally ruins the fun of going out of your way to get the badass stuff when it's all just as shit as your current stuff.

 

[Orange Lazarus]

Another beauty of the FF8 scaling system. Once you get the Tonberry GF lvl up/ lvl down ability, you can get any drop or any magic you're looking for. did I mention FF8 is the only game I've ever noticed even did level scaling?

 

[Danceofmasks]

I prefer the idea of logical scaling.
Someone opened gates to hell, yeah? Well, as you level up, tougher demons start to appear.

But ... level 50 mudcrabs are ridiculous.

 

[Istanbul]

I prefer the idea of logical scaling.
Someone opened gates to hell, yeah? Well, as you level up, tougher demons start to appear.

But ... level 50 mudcrabs are ridiculous.

I'm inclined to agree with you. While I appreciate the concept of scaling in theory, shouldn't there be a limit to how tough a monster can get? Would the game still have the same panache if, in Final Fantasy 1, you were able to encounter an Imp who could take down Garland?

I favor the notions of soft caps and diminishing scaling. The idea that a monster should scale with you for a few levels, but as you keep going, its ability to scale should gradually diminish until it eventually stops. By way of example:

You are:......Random Goblin is:
Level 1........Level 1
Level 5........Level 5
Level 8........Level 7
Level 12......Level 10
Level 16......Level 13
Level 20......Level 15
Level 25......Level 15
Level 30......Level 15

...and so on. The goblin levels up with you, but after you reach a certain point, it starts losing ground...and eventually, it just can't get any stronger. This keeps the feel of the monster - I mean, come on, it's a goblin - without letting them become irrelevant in the first five minutes of the game.

Thoughts?