School shootings in America (and a wee bit help with homework!)

[cleverlymadeup]

oh and btw new jersey has lower murder by firearm rate than new hampshire does, which proves your argument wrong yet again

First of all, it...really doesn't matter whether you're murdered by firearm or not, murdered is murdered.

I mean, that's kind of a silly argument, isn't it? You'd rather live somewhere where you have five times the chance of being murdered, but less of a chance of being shot?

Second, source?

actually the murder rate by type is very relevant to this discussion. murder is murder HOWEVER we are specifically talking about gun violence and death by guns, which means method does play a big factor

actually no it's not half assed, it's fair as all countries are compared as a whole and not a small part of the country, cause i could just point to PEI which has a murder rate of 0 and show how well gun laws work and be as half assed as you

California is a small part of the United States? California makes up no greater a proportion of the US than PEI does of Canada?

C'mon--stop being ridiculous.

actually there is s distinct difference between the two, they have vastly different populations, which means you can't say "well place a has less murders the place b" cause place a could have 10 million people and the other 1000 ppl, this will vastly skew the numbers.

actually you're just sore cause i'm proving my point and actually using facts to back it up. where you can pull one area where they are the stastical anomaly instead of the norm,

It's not just an area, it's a state--U.S. gun laws vary greatly by state.

i'd also like to see stats, not laws.

Um, how exactly are we going to discuss the relationship between violence and gun laws without looking at the laws?

actually hard numbers are better than laws simply due to the fact that laws provide no hard evidence of your point. it's nice to say the law says this but it doesn't prove anything, it's just a statement of the way things are there.

Canadian gun laws aren't as strict as you might think. There are 3 people in my homeroom alone who own their own firearms, and are legally licensed to use them. Minor Licenses can be obtained at age 12, allowing the unsupervised use of a borrowed firearm, as well as the purchase of ammunition, and children under the age of 12 may get this license if they "are found to need a firearm to hunt or trap". full licenses can be obtained at age 18. The laws might be more strict than in the US, but they are not lenient.

actually i'm pretty aware of the gun laws in canada, being canadian AND having a few friends with gun collections, including exotics. the exotic gun collectors have TONS of restrictions on them, they MUST call the police each and every time they wish to take the gun anywhere, including any stop offs, they must also call them once they reach the destination AND when they leave.

there is also the rather strict storage laws they have for guns, including but not limited to ammo and guns stored at opposite ends of the house, having firing pins removed or locked AND the keys for each stored in separate locations in the house

also if you look at that law, you can only get the guns at that young age if it's needed for hunting and trapping, ie some kid living in toronto or vancouver can't get one, they need to be in a place where they are using it for their livelihood

 

[cleverlymadeup]

oh and btw new jersey has lower murder by firearm rate than new hampshire does, which proves your argument wrong yet again

Second, source?

actually the murder rate by type is very relevant to this discussion. murder is murder HOWEVER we are specifically talking about gun violence and death by guns, which means method does play a big factor

Again, source?

here's one

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

new hampshire is #44 and jersey is #48

California is a small part of the United States? California makes up no greater a proportion of the US than PEI does of Canada?

C'mon--stop being ridiculous.

actually there is s distinct difference between the two, they have vastly different populations,

The only relevant difference would be if California made up no greater a proportion of the US than PEI does of Canada.

this is why you use a rate and not just hard numbers, as it gives a good comparison

actually hard numbers are better than laws simply due to the fact that laws provide no hard evidence of your point. it's nice to say the law says this but it doesn't prove anything, it's just a statement of the way things are there.

And what numbers dealing with gun control have you provided?

i've provided murder rates in various countries with overly strict guns ownership laws and it shows that there is a lower rate of gun violence in those countries.

how does the law prove my point wrong? it can't, you need some actual figures to back it up, ie they regulate it the rate will change, if it goes down an continues to drop or grow at a very small rate, then obviously it works. which happened in Canada. or you don't regulate it and it grows even more, which is happening in the states

actually i'm pretty aware of the gun laws in canada, being canadian AND having a few friends with gun collections, including exotics. the exotic gun collectors have TONS of restrictions on them, they MUST call the police each and every time they wish to take the gun anywhere, including any stop offs, they must also call them once they reach the destination AND when they leave.

Yeah--because that's the problem America faces: all those murders by exotic guns!

actually you missed the point of that statement, i was just showing how much i actually DO know about the laws here in Canada

also last time i checked most drive bys are done by exotic guns not stuff like handguns

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

well, according to the U.S. constitution, it is every citizens right to bear arms.

I think that when the founders of the U.S. (Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, ect.) made the Bill of Rights and that ammendment, they didn't think that it would be a problem. Mainly because most people had a gun back then.

They probably did this because they wanted citizens to be able to defend themselves in case of an emergency, like in a war, citizens can defend themselves if the military can't, or another form of self defence.

Some people just take it to far and buy a gun to shoot someone. Its strange that there are more crazy and violent people in this era than there were in the past.


And most shootings happen in or near cities, which from personal experience are the main centers of violence. That is why America has lots of school shootings, because virtually everyone is allowed to own a firearm and most who do live near centers of violence

I don't really know, but from what I have reaserched for past papers on this subject, most reasons for shootings are because the child is unhappy at school and/or has to live with horrid/abusive conditions at home.

Yes, an to add, outlawing guns does not make it so people can't get them. It makes it so regular law abiding people can't get them but criminals can and so good citizens can't defend themselves.

 

[soren7550]

Pac-Man was where society started to go downhill. I mean look at the objectionable content;

Ghosts? That's the presence of The Occult.
Power pills? DRUGS.
And that crazy electronic music that drives kids into an insane frenzy?

No sir, no good can come of it.

Actually, I would have said Tetris was the catalyst. It was Russian, so it was promoting Communism (this was the 80's/early 90's, after all), and the music was even more insane. At least Pacman promoted the fun things...

Aren't you forgetting that the moving of the blocks represents the evil Red Army's ways of manipulating mankind?

 

[sheic99]

Well every country has crazy or angry students, America's just lucky enough to have loose gun laws and a high population. But of course the first thing they try to blame at every shootout is video games. Odd country.

Remember the Virginia Tech shootings?
Jack Thompson:Look a copy of Counter Strike in the dorm, this must be the reason for killing
Roommate to shooter:That's my copy of CS. The shooter never played video games.

 

[Kadamon]

here's my take on the short answer

america is a country with very little gun control, the vast majority have guns, both legal and illegal. other countries, such as canada, britain and japan, have strict gun control hardly any gun violence. the gun violence at school comes from the lack of control over the guns and their proper storage as parents can and do leave their guns in places that make access to the gun easy for their children who think shooting people is the way to solve the problems

You can buy shotgun ammo from Canada right over the counter (or something along the lines of that) last time I heard. Canada doesn't really have that strict gun control.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

here's one

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

new hampshire is #44 and jersey is #48

So a state with lax gun laws comes in #44, a state with much more strict gun laws comes in #48 and there's only a difference of less than one point between them.

In the meantime, the state with the strictest gun control comes in #30, and has a death rate that's almost as much as those two states PUT TOGETHER!

Thanks for making my point for me!

actually your point is lax gun controls doesn't mean more deaths by firearms, which that stat proves the exact opposite of, sure it's a point or two different however it IS lower unlike what you were trying to claim

Because the state with the strictest laws is only at #30. Doesn't that tell you there's more to the issue than how strict the gun control laws are?

ok but with the UK and Japan and many European countries AND Canada all have a lower rate of murder by firearms AND they have much stricter gun laws means my point is even more correct.

also last time i checked most drive bys are done by exotic guns not stuff like handguns

The 90s are over, dude.

Drive-bys...

they still happen tho

You can buy shotgun ammo from Canada right over the counter (or something along the lines of that) last time I heard. Canada doesn't really have that strict gun control.

actually it does, they have rather strict laws on storage and possession of guns. guns and ammo can't be stored on the same side of the house, you must lock both the guns and the ammo up, you can't have the keys near one another, all guns must have trigger guards on them. there's a bunch more too, it's not like you can go into a bank and sign up for a savings account and get given a gun for doing that

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I giggled that a state with guns laws few and far between, virginia, was only ranked 25.

 

[Kadamon]

Pac-Man was where society started to go downhill. I mean look at the objectionable content;

Ghosts? That's the presence of The Occult.
Power pills? DRUGS.
And that crazy electronic music that drives kids into an insane frenzy?

No sir, no good can come of it.

Actually, I would have said Tetris was the catalyst. It was Russian, so it was promoting Communism (this was the 80's/early 90's, after all), and the music was even more insane. At least Pacman promoted the fun things...

Aren't you forgetting that the moving of the blocks represents the evil Red Army's ways of manipulating mankind?

It's like no one remembers the Hitler Hidden Bonus stage, don't you remember? Pacman grew tiny mustache and the ghosts became jewish. Eat the swatstika for extra points!

 

[bjj hero]

I wonder where Texas ranks in the murder list?

Kids by their very nature are little savages. Raising them is the act of taming and civilizing them. There is always fisticuffs and bloody noses at school as kids clash and figure out the pecking order. It doesnt take a big jump to see that little horrors with easy access to highly effective forms of violence will use them.

Its too late for gun control in America, the guns are out there now. Even if by some miricle everyone agreed to give them back the laws wont change when the national rife association having 4.3 million members and, until he got altzimers, had Charlton Heston as their spokesman, for none Americans you read thst right... fucking MOSES was representing them. 2 things Americans love, their guns and thier Bible.

There are far far fewer guns in the UK and,, shock horror, we have far fewer shootings per head. I know where I feel safer.

I lived in America and my Uncle was shot in a car park robbery and I had two friends who had been shot at. This was not in some slum, they were all quite wealthy from good neighborhoods. Of my UK family and friends, the only person I know whos been shot at was shot when he was doing aid work in and around kosovo.

Yes you can be killed with other weapons but Id prefer my chances against a knife/kosh than against a gun. At least I can run.

Guns dont kill people; high velocity rounds travelling through soft tissue kills people.

 

[magicaxis]

its just goes to show that guns are not the CAUSE of murder. who the hell thinks "man i hate josh, im going to go kill him, oh wait! i am without a gun. oh well, i guess he gets away with it." you can kill with anything, guns are just the popular choice. if you are minus a gun, you take a knife, or club, or tennis raquet, or extremely heavy spoon!

 

[Phyroxis]

here's my take on the short answer

america is a country with very little gun control, the vast majority have guns, both legal and illegal. other countries, such as canada, britain and japan, have strict gun control hardly any gun violence. the gun violence at school comes from the lack of control over the guns and their proper storage as parents can and do leave their guns in places that make access to the gun easy for their children who think shooting people is the way to solve the problems

Agreed.

Vast majority?

Um... Okay.

 

[scotth266]

The answer is simple: the PRESENCE of guns is not the issue, but rather the way that parents don't keep the guns away from their kids... If parents could be bothered to learn some basic gun safety / actually HIDE the things, school shootings would be a non-issue.

 

[sirsolo]

The ease of getting weapons in America, followed by the ignorance of protection against it.