School shootings in America (and a wee bit help with homework!)

[JRslinger]

yeah cause proving you wrong with your own examples of gun control "working" makes me unreasonable, it just makes me smarter than you as i can read statistics


ok then why does Japan, the UK and Canada, who have very strict gun control have lower rates of gun violence if it doesn't work at all? by your accounts that means it would remain the same but the exact opposite is true, there is very little compared to the states, there's tons of stats around to back that up.

Cleverly you haven't proven that gun control works. A correlation doesn't prove causation. The only methodology that I can think of that would prove that gun control works would be to interview many criminals before and after major gun control laws are passed to see how easy it is for them to acquire guns at different times. I've never seen a study like this.

Also tell me why you assume people are incapable of using guns in self defense? Are you projecting onto others your own feelings of insecurity regarding guns? Many people have successfully used guns in self defense. Research by Gary Kleck and data from the National Crime Victimization Survey show this. A capable and prepared gun owner should have an advantage over a criminal IMHO.

Source: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1615397&blobtype=pdf

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Cleverly you haven't proven that gun control works. A correlation doesn't prove causation. The only methodology that I can think of that would prove that gun control works would be to interview many criminals before and after major gun control laws are passed to see how easy it is for them to acquire guns at different times. I've never seen a study like this.

actually the correlation DOES prove it works, if you start limiting something and crime based on said thing you limited then yes you can say "yes the limiting works"

sure you can ask criminals but they're criminals and they can usually get guns thru illegal means, ie they will always get them. look at Japan where it is illegal to own a gun and they have virtually no murders by guns, so yeah i'd have to say it does work

Also tell me why you assume people are incapable of using guns in self defense? Are you projecting onto others your own feelings of insecurity regarding guns? Many people have successfully used guns in self defense. Research by Gary Kleck and data from the National Crime Victimization Survey show this. A capable and prepared gun owner should have an advantage over a criminal IMHO.

Source: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1615397&blobtype=pdf

ok yes SOME ppl have, compared to all those who's dumb ass got shot and killed cause they tried to be a cowboy and got shot and killed

i'm willing to bet you've never been involved in a robbery, mugging or home invasion or anything of the sort. it's nice to say "yes you COULD use a gun" however the reality of most of those situations is you CAN'T use a gun.

in muggings they will typically come up from behind, and put a gun to your body or a knife to your throat

store robberies they point a gun at you, if you do something stupid they shoot you

in home invasions they point guns at you, you do something dumb they shoot you

it's also possible for lighting to strike a criminal in many cases too, doesn't mean it will happen

if you really want to know, go ask a cop and see what they say, they'll come down on my side saying "don't be an idiot and try and shoot them" stuff like that where the person shoots the criminal and saves the day only happens in the movies

 

[Clashero]

Do you realize that you're more likely to be struck by lightning twice than to be shot at an American public shcool?

 

[thefrizzlefry]

I have been assigned by my dear English teacher to scribble down an essay about (You guessed it...) School shootings in America.

We've been assaulted with numerous movies and articles about how America is the violent shizzle. But I'd personally like it if I head the opinions from the average, yet quite intelligent, schmoes from The Escapist.

Basically, my assignment goes like this:
"Write a report in which you describe and discuss school shootings in America. Why are American schools especially in the danger zone when it comes to being attacked with guns by crazy or angry students?"

What do you think?
Discuss, and give me some opinions. =)

We need a lot more school shootings. Only after thousands of children have died in schools will we learn to stop bullying, peer-pressure, and parents not actually caring for their kids. It sounds harsh, but most Americans only learn from their own mistakes and will second guess anyone trying to give them advice or help in raising their children.

This.
I got made fun of all through middle school (My smoking and drinking habits did not form out of nothing, you know), and it never stopped no matter how many times I told a person in power. Why? Because kids can be xenophobic little retards, and refuse to give up their deep seated fears of anything not approved by the mainstream culture. You wanna know why kids shoot other kids at school? Because bullets are the most effective means of getting people to shut the fuck up. As someone once said, dead men tell no tales.

 

[asinann]

here's my take on the short answer

america is a country with very little gun control, the vast majority have guns, both legal and illegal. other countries, such as canada, britain and japan, have strict gun control hardly any gun violence. the gun violence at school comes from the lack of control over the guns and their proper storage as parents can and do leave their guns in places that make access to the gun easy for their children who think shooting people is the way to solve the problems

School shooting didn't start until parents stopped raising their kids.

The problem is that parents are trying to be their kids' friends.

Next time there's a school shooting charge the parents with criminal neglect and allow the victims' families to sue for wrongful death and see how fast this crap stops.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

School shooting didn't start until parents stopped raising their kids.

The problem is that parents are trying to be their kids' friends.

wrong it did happen before, it's just something that the media never really reported

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Notable_shootings

Next time there's a school shooting charge the parents with criminal neglect and allow the victims' families to sue for wrongful death and see how fast this crap stops.

similar things have been tried and failed

 

[Hawks_Pride]

Go, Father Time, Go!

I feel compelled to add in the following: I've spoken to a few cops, clev. As a rule, they tend to follow the theory that armed police should be backup to armed citizens who are already there.

Also, if you're gonna quote places where they have tight gun control, and quote, little gun crime, unquote, I'm gonna throw places like Switzerland and Israel at you.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

It is interesting how peoples' politics shape their perception of reality. 3+ pages of posts about gun control, and no mention of the word "depression."

I feel very strongly about crime and gun control because I was once a victim of street violence. My assailants didn't use guns, but it didn't save me the trip to the ER. On the other hand, they were from the poor side of town...

EDIT: I also want to point out that suicide kills about 1/3 more people in the United States than homicide. And no one gives a shit. That's why I feel that most gun-control activists are too wrapped up in their emotions and reactionary to consider how they can provide the most benefit to society. Depression is a problem we could really fight if we wanted to.

 

[Hawks_Pride]

Father Time's last post goes here

/arguement

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Cleverly you haven't proven that gun control works. A correlation doesn't prove causation. The only methodology that I can think of that would prove that gun control works would be to interview many criminals before and after major gun control laws are passed to see how easy it is for them to acquire guns at different times. I've never seen a study like this.

actually the correlation DOES prove it works, if you start limiting something and crime based on said thing you limited then yes you can say "yes the limiting works"

No It doesn't there are many many factors that cause the crime rate to go up and down so to say that it was the fault of one factor just because it went up without first eliminating the other factors is stupid. It's also a logical fallacy.

ok so it's illegal to own a gun in Japan, how come there is little to no gun violence in that country?

the same goes for many european countries where they have strict gun control OR it's illegal to own them?

it's not a logical fallacy it's a proven fact. look at the rate of murder by gun to murder by edged weapons, it's basically 1:1, seems to be pretty logical to me

sure you can ask criminals but they're criminals and they can usually get guns thru illegal means, ie they will always get them. look at Japan where it is illegal to own a gun and they have virtually no murders by guns, so yeah i'd have to say it does work

Correlation != causation. Never has, never will.

see my previous comment and all those other times everyone has failed to address the MANY countries whom instate strict gun laws and watch the rate of gun violence drop to where murder by other methods is more than murder by gun

Oh and if criminals are always going to get guns why the hell are we keeping citizens from getting them?

really and if a criminal knows you are armed, they are more willing to shoot than if they believe you aren't, you know the whole survival thing

i'm willing to bet you've never been involved in a robbery, mugging or home invasion or anything of the sort. it's nice to say "yes you COULD use a gun" however the reality of most of those situations is you CAN'T use a gun.


in muggings they will typically come up from behind, and put a gun to your body or a knife to your throat

store robberies they point a gun at you, if you do something stupid they shoot you

in home invasions they point guns at you, you do something dumb they shoot you

Source?

personally experience or friends who have went thru it and reading tons of news reports where you hear the line "well the person did some sort of action to the criminal and then he got shot and they died on the spot or in the hospital" there is more of those that appear in the media than the "well they pulled a gun on the criminal and shot and killed the criminal" stories

if you really want to know, go ask a cop and see what they say, they'll come down on my side saying "don't be an idiot and try and shoot them" stuff like that where the person shoots the criminal and saves the day only happens in the movies

Except that's not the case, I've met people who were saved by owning a gun.

and for every one of those there are about 20 - 30 more that got their ass shot and/or killed trying to be the hero

a gun is only useful at distances of 20+ feet, if you are 10 feet or under you have no chance to pull and shoot a gun before the person is on top of you and has your own gun pointed at your head, this i've seen done to a cop who said hand to hand was useless during a seminar

honestly go down to your local police station and ask a cop about what i'm saying is truthful, their answers will line up with me, a gun is NOT protection it's a moth eaten safety blanket

 

[Hawks_Pride]

Okay, clev. What IS a good defense against an assailant, if a firearm isn't?

And passivity is not a defense.

 

[Joselyn]

I have been assigned by my dear English teacher to scribble down an essay about (You guessed it...) School shootings in America.

We've been assaulted with numerous movies and articles about how America is the violent shizzle. But I'd personally like it if I head the opinions from the average, yet quite intelligent, schmoes from The Escapist.

Basically, my assignment goes like this:
"Write a report in which you describe and discuss school shootings in America. Why are American schools especially in the danger zone when it comes to being attacked with guns by crazy or angry students?"

What do you think?
Discuss, and give me some opinions. =)

Basically you want us to do your homework....Gosh, I don't miss homework

 

[asinann]

Most of the media is VERY anti-gun.

You also don't hear about the homes that are not invaded entirely because there is a gun known to be at the address (random victims of crime are rare, most of the time you know the person that broke in.)

 

[JRslinger]

ok so it's illegal to own a gun in Japan, how come there is little to no gun violence in that country?

Gun control laws are not the only factor that affect gun crime. Japan for example has a much more homogenous culture that is more obedient to authority than the United States.

The main factor influencing gun violence/murder is the strength of criminal subcultures. Mexico has strict gun laws, but the drug cartels are so powerful they routinely target policemen.

Here's another example. Massachusetts has strict gun laws, yet most of the gun violence occurs in Roxbury and Dorchester(Boston's ghetto) where the gangs are. New Hampshire has very weak gun laws but few murders because it lacks strong criminal subcultures.

These subcultures became more powerful in the 1960's through the late 80's as the war on drugs intensified.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Okay, clev. What IS a good defense against an assailant, if a firearm isn't?

And passivity is not a defense.

actually it IS the defense against someone with a gun, if you want to live, do what they ask of you, Ghandi taught us that one

see everyone sees movies and thinks they'll be a hero and live thru a gun shot, however the reality is that you would go into shock and freeze up when you get shot, that's if you're lucky enough not to get shot in a non-essential spot.

so if you think shooting someone back is a defense, you are a walking deadman who WILL be shot. the thing is you can't pull a gun before someone who has one pointed at you can shoot, even quick draw ppl can't do that.

if you don't believe me try this, stick a water gun in your belt or where ever you'd carry a gun when you are out and about, have a friend point another water gun at you and raise your hands, like in a robbery, now try and grab and fire your gun before your friend can shoot you. the simple fact is you can't do it

the same goes for a knife, if you want to see how well the kung fu knife defense works, put on a white shirt you don't want or go shirtless, have a friend grab a crayola washable marker, which is the knife, now have him attack you with the marker and defend yourself, after a couple minutes look at all the marker all over your body, each one a knife cut of varying depth

so in this case the best offense is a good defense and you do nothing cept save your ass from being shot, cause if they're going to shoot you they will just shoot you and not give you a choice by giving you a choice they're allowing you to live