Screwattack's Death Battle is starting to get.....dull.

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Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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I mean that last fights that got me really engaged was the first Superman vs Goku battle and the Terminator vs Robocop fight.

I was dissipointed in Godzilla vs Gamara (they should have saved it for later so their CGI use of their fights got better)

And the fight with Red vs Blue's Carolina and Meta did have that seem feel as how Monty Oum does his fight animations. (May he Rest in Peace)

And a good number of fights have been so predictable especially when it comes to certain matchups, like the next one is gonna be Tracer from Overwatch and The Scout from TF2 and I think its obvious Tracer's gonna win unless they pull something out of their ass for Scout to Win.

Anyone else feels a bit dissipointed in Death Battle recently?
 

Shoggoth2588

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I didn't even bother to watch the Red vs Blue one and at this point I feel like I've lost track of who's fighting next or even if I missed a fight. I like the series for the spectacle and it's neat to learn supplemental info about characters I'm unfamiliar with. That being said though, some of the endings they've had have left me wanting: Remember that time Shang Shun and M. Bison essentially merged into a hyper-character? Remember that time Metal Sonic absorbed freaking everything in the Battle to become Omni-Sonic or whatever? Why can't these two new characters fight (it could essentially play out as character A (representing characters 1&2) fighting against character B (representing these characters) in a massive battle royal).

I'm still interested in Death Battle but I don't anticipate the new episodes like I used to.
 

FalloutJack

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I still like it. I didn't see the Red VS Blue one, say, because I'm not into it. Same reason for not watching any about Pokemon and such. Godzilla VS Gamera? I was rooting for Godzilla the whole time. Big Godzilla fan, I am.

Frankly, though, what I would LIKE is for them to re-visit Batman VS Spider-Man. Why? Well, they had Batman defeat Captain America, who is faster, smarter, and stronger than Spidey, plus military training. We know from Civil War that while Cap can get slowed down by Spidey, he can't be stopped. So, to be fair to Bruce, any man who can beat Captain America can beat anyone that Captain America can beat.

That's about the only real complaints I'd have on the old Death Battle set.
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
I still like it. I didn't see the Red VS Blue one, say, because I'm not into it. Same reason for not watching any about Pokemon and such. Godzilla VS Gamera? I was rooting for Godzilla the whole time. Big Godzilla fan, I am.

Frankly, though, what I would LIKE is for them to re-visit Batman VS Spider-Man. Why? Well, they had Batman defeat Captain America, who is faster, smarter, and stronger than Spidey, plus military training. We know from Civil War that while Cap can get slowed down by Spidey, he can't be stopped. So, to be fair to Bruce, any man who can beat Captain America can beat anyone that Captain America can beat.

That's about the only real complaints I'd have on the old Death Battle set.
Okay one Cap isn't stronger, faster or smarter than Spiderman. Spidy can lift 10 tons, can run 100mph and makes hi tech gadgets with a small budget, as for military training while cap has that Spidy goes toe to toe with people who alone can give the Avengers a run for their money and sometimes he fights six of them at a time. 2 Thats the cinematic universe lots of people get nerf in that universe.
 

FalloutJack

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PapaGreg096 said:
FalloutJack said:
I still like it. I didn't see the Red VS Blue one, say, because I'm not into it. Same reason for not watching any about Pokemon and such. Godzilla VS Gamera? I was rooting for Godzilla the whole time. Big Godzilla fan, I am.

Frankly, though, what I would LIKE is for them to re-visit Batman VS Spider-Man. Why? Well, they had Batman defeat Captain America, who is faster, smarter, and stronger than Spidey, plus military training. We know from Civil War that while Cap can get slowed down by Spidey, he can't be stopped. So, to be fair to Bruce, any man who can beat Captain America can beat anyone that Captain America can beat.

That's about the only real complaints I'd have on the old Death Battle set.
Okay one Cap isn't stronger, faster or smarter than Spiderman. Spidy can lift 10 tons, can run 100mph and makes hi tech gadgets with a small budget, as for military training while cap has that Spidy goes toe to toe with people who alone can give the Avengers a run for their money and sometimes he fights six of them at a time. 2 Thats the cinematic universe lots of people get nerf in that universe.
With respect, Batman did alot more in the comics as well, and so did Cap, SO...as below, so above. Aren't they ALL OP?
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
FalloutJack said:
I still like it. I didn't see the Red VS Blue one, say, because I'm not into it. Same reason for not watching any about Pokemon and such. Godzilla VS Gamera? I was rooting for Godzilla the whole time. Big Godzilla fan, I am.

Frankly, though, what I would LIKE is for them to re-visit Batman VS Spider-Man. Why? Well, they had Batman defeat Captain America, who is faster, smarter, and stronger than Spidey, plus military training. We know from Civil War that while Cap can get slowed down by Spidey, he can't be stopped. So, to be fair to Bruce, any man who can beat Captain America can beat anyone that Captain America can beat.

That's about the only real complaints I'd have on the old Death Battle set.
Okay one Cap isn't stronger, faster or smarter than Spiderman. Spidy can lift 10 tons, can run 100mph and makes hi tech gadgets with a small budget, as for military training while cap has that Spidy goes toe to toe with people who alone can give the Avengers a run for their money and sometimes he fights six of them at a time. 2 Thats the cinematic universe lots of people get nerf in that universe.
With respect, Batman did alot more in the comics as well, and so did Cap, SO...as below, so above. Aren't they ALL OP?
Okay but Batman is peak human, in canon he can lift 1000 pds, has good reflexes and is as fast as an olympic runner, Spiderman meanwhile is pretty much superhuman and can dodge bullets at point blank range. There is no way Batman can beat Spiderman without bad writing involve
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
Comic fans accuse god of cheating all the time. Not sure I should take that seriously.
No one said anything about cheating I just said you were wrong that Cap is stronger, faster and smarter than Spidy
 

FalloutJack

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PapaGreg096 said:
FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
Comic fans accuse god of cheating all the time. Not sure I should take that seriously.
No one said anything about cheating I just said you were wrong that Cap is stronger, faster and smarter than Spidy
I was referring to the statement of bad writing.
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
Comic fans accuse god of cheating all the time. Not sure I should take that seriously.
No one said anything about cheating I just said you were wrong that Cap is stronger, faster and smarter than Spidy
I was referring to the statement of bad writing.
Okay explain to me how Batman can beat Spiderman without prep
 

FalloutJack

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PapaGreg096 said:
Sure, man. But if you shout bad writing, I'm shouting cop-out and we are done.

SO!

Ordinary night, ordinary rooftop. Could be anywhere. New York, Gotham, Metropolis - but let's just go with anywhere so we don't have other people involved. We can waive any parts about Batman intimidation or Spidey talking as any means of getting to the other. We know that this rarely works on either of them, as is. Let's just say that they're there, these buildings are their playground, and continue.

If we're on the basis of a flatfooted encounter with no prior encounter of each other, we have to still give Bats the better head on his shoulders, who - in his repertoire - will have seen many other opponents in his time, and apart from what his detective-level observational skills tell him, he's got information in his head that can lead him to some fairly-quick assessments without ever having heard of the Amazing Spider-Man. I had a brief look. Doesn't appear to be any like Spider-Man, but all the villains he's put down and justice people he's encountered would lead him to deduce - on sight - that he is acrobatic and physical, but his body frame and voice suggests too young to have received any formal training.

So, the fight begins, and you know what they're doing for openers. Spider-Man is using webs as soon as Batman throws anything, uses super agility to get around, his spider-sense to help him avoid getting punched so he can fight this guy. We know what they're doing in their heads as they attempt to beat each other. They're trying to get a good feel for what the other can do and react to that, find the weakness and use it. The problem here is that Batman is an encyclopedia and Spidey is a laundry list. They're separated by a few physical attributes and a sense of danger that pings when something is wrong. The problem with Batman is that he's always a threat, and Spidey has to be able to interpret WHAT is going to happen. He's not psychic. He cannot predict what will happen in a sleight-of-hand gesture, say, only that it happened.

Now, in the short time that they are testing each other out, gadget to webs, fighting style VS improvised style, Bats has learned that he's fighting a person who has enhanced physical prowess and webs, and he can't help but notice that even when he uses "The darkness as his ally", Spidey seems to have a good sense for his location. Not a perfect idea, but enough to not be surprised by a stealth attack because of his senses and reaction time. It's allowed him to even blind-fight well, despite not having Bruce's incredible training. This IS a worthy match, a fight to be remembered. The problem is that we know that Batman also tends to change tactics on his foes rather swiftly, make everything an uphill battle for them when he's at the disadvantage. He makes them exert more effort, work harder while he does less in a controlled manner.

Spider-Man attacks and then, there is smoke, a thick shroud from Batman's smoke bombs. He's got to be kidding, right? His Spider-Senses will be working on overdrive. Spider-Man decides to just hop and web out of there- Web gets cut mid-air. Sounded like a couple of batarangs. A grappler shoots at his feet, but there's a danger sense, so he leaps immediately into the air to avoid the grappler with the explosive head. Spidey webs into the smoke, which he's above now, trying to catch Batman. It's not working. He can sense him in there, but he can't pinpoint him, and not only can Batman judge by listening to the incoming webs, he has heat vision and can see Spider-Man pointing with his hands, so that even if the webs were no special temperature, he can avoid them.

The smoke clears. There's web-shot and impact webbing and what-have-you all over the place, but Bats is nowhere near it. He's standing there in the typical Batman pose of the cape surrounding his body, for the moment. He's drawn this out, but it's clear he's not going to any longer. The fight renews, ducking and avoiding each other's blows, punches and kicks traded, and though Spider-Man is physically stronger, Batman is turning the blows with his body to make them glances when he can't avoid them. It means they only hurt. Eventually, Spider-Man DOES land a good solid kick, sending Bats tumbling hard. And then, his leg explodes.

During the course of the fight, Batman observed not only Spider-Man's abilities, but his equipment, specifically his webbing, an ingenius directable adhesive whose tensile qualities - once hardened - are incredible. In the smoke and probably when he might've been caught, he determined that it could be cut, with effort and with a fine blade like his own equipment. Getting Spidey to supply him any was a cinch. He just needed to get him to act. He'd never risk himself in the mist, so the webbing was used...and cut while pressing a grenade against it. Once the fog was lifted, he got back into the fight, except that it was mostly defensive, keeping him at bay with martial arts before making it look like he made a mistake and took a solid hit to plant the grenade on Spider-Man's leg. Spidey has the web-dissolving fluid, but he can't apply it in two seconds directly after kicking a man hard enough to send him flying.

He gets up to find that Spider-Man is either fatally wounded or already dead. Those things can wreck a humanoid robot, you know. It was a good thing he planned to take that hit or he'd be dead as well. As it stands, though, he was going to need alot of recovery after this. All his training, all his knowledge, and it was the samurai-like nature remarked upon him in Japan that allowed Spider-Man to do more of the work - to even take wounds in order to grasp victory - and his magician's sleight-of-hand.

Why did this work? Because apart from the training and the observational skills that impress even Ra's Al Ghul, he has the skill in trickery to surprise more powerful foes with the unexpected in some way. Stealth and obscuring himself was only good for one thing against Spidey, to make it so he can do things unobserved. That is a weakness Peter has. He doesn't know exactly what he's sensing. He has to figure it out. And Batman? He carries alot of equipment on his belt because he doesn't know what's going to happen that night, so he's got a little of everything, without getting too specific on the anti-super-guy stuff. Even unprepared, all of his talents, equipment, knowledge, and skills can be used to tackle a superior foe.
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
Sure, man. But if you shout bad writing, I'm shouting cop-out and we are done.

SO!

Ordinary night, ordinary rooftop. Could be anywhere. New York, Gotham, Metropolis - but let's just go with anywhere so we don't have other people involved. We can waive any parts about Batman intimidation or Spidey talking as any means of getting to the other. We know that this rarely works on either of them, as is. Let's just say that they're there, these buildings are their playground, and continue.

If we're on the basis of a flatfooted encounter with no prior encounter of each other, we have to still give Bats the better head on his shoulders, who - in his repertoire - will have seen many other opponents in his time, and apart from what his detective-level observational skills tell him, he's got information in his head that can lead him to some fairly-quick assessments without ever having heard of the Amazing Spider-Man. I had a brief look. Doesn't appear to be any like Spider-Man, but all the villains he's put down and justice people he's encountered would lead him to deduce - on sight - that he is acrobatic and physical, but his body frame and voice suggests too young to have received any formal training.

So, the fight begins, and you know what they're doing for openers. Spider-Man is using webs as soon as Batman throws anything, uses super agility to get around, his spider-sense to help him avoid getting punched so he can fight this guy. We know what they're doing in their heads as they attempt to beat each other. They're trying to get a good feel for what the other can do and react to that, find the weakness and use it. The problem here is that Batman is an encyclopedia and Spidey is a laundry list. They're separated by a few physical attributes and a sense of danger that pings when something is wrong. The problem with Batman is that he's always a threat, and Spidey has to be able to interpret WHAT is going to happen. He's not psychic. He cannot predict what will happen in a sleight-of-hand gesture, say, only that it happened.

Now, in the short time that they are testing each other out, gadget to webs, fighting style VS improvised style, Bats has learned that he's fighting a person who has enhanced physical prowess and webs, and he can't help but notice that even when he uses "The darkness as his ally", Spidey seems to have a good sense for his location. Not a perfect idea, but enough to not be surprised by a stealth attack because of his senses and reaction time. It's allowed him to even blind-fight well, despite not having Bruce's incredible training. This IS a worthy match, a fight to be remembered. The problem is that we know that Batman also tends to change tactics on his foes rather swiftly, make everything an uphill battle for them when he's at the disadvantage. He makes them exert more effort, work harder while he does less in a controlled manner.

Spider-Man attacks and then, there is smoke, a thick shroud from Batman's smoke bombs. He's got to be kidding, right? His Spider-Senses will be working on overdrive. Spider-Man decides to just hop and web out of there- Web gets cut mid-air. Sounded like a couple of batarangs. A grappler shoots at his feet, but there's a danger sense, so he leaps immediately into the air to avoid the grappler with the explosive head. Spidey webs into the smoke, which he's above now, trying to catch Batman. It's not working. He can sense him in there, but he can't pinpoint him, and not only can Batman judge by listening to the incoming webs, he has heat vision and can see Spider-Man pointing with his hands, so that even if the webs were no special temperature, he can avoid them.

The smoke clears. There's web-shot and impact webbing and what-have-you all over the place, but Bats is nowhere near it. He's standing there in the typical Batman pose of the cape surrounding his body, for the moment. He's drawn this out, but it's clear he's not going to any longer. The fight renews, ducking and avoiding each other's blows, punches and kicks traded, and though Spider-Man is physically stronger, Batman is turning the blows with his body to make them glances when he can't avoid them. It means they only hurt. Eventually, Spider-Man DOES land a good solid kick, sending Bats tumbling hard. And then, his leg explodes.

During the course of the fight, Batman observed not only Spider-Man's abilities, but his equipment, specifically his webbing, an ingenius directable adhesive whose tensile qualities - once hardened - are incredible. In the smoke and probably when he might've been caught, he determined that it could be cut, with effort and with a fine blade like his own equipment. Getting Spidey to supply him any was a cinch. He just needed to get him to act. He'd never risk himself in the mist, so the webbing was used...and cut while pressing a grenade against it. Once the fog was lifted, he got back into the fight, except that it was mostly defensive, keeping him at bay with martial arts before making it look like he made a mistake and took a solid hit to plant the grenade on Spider-Man's leg. Spidey has the web-dissolving fluid, but he can't apply it in two seconds directly after kicking a man hard enough to send him flying.

He gets up to find that Spider-Man is either fatally wounded or already dead. Those things can wreck a humanoid robot, you know. It was a good thing he planned to take that hit or he'd be dead as well. As it stands, though, he was going to need alot of recovery after this. All his training, all his knowledge, and it was the samurai-like nature remarked upon him in Japan that allowed Spider-Man to do more of the work - to even take wounds in order to grasp victory - and his magician's sleight-of-hand.

Why did this work? Because apart from the training and the observational skills that impress even Ra's Al Ghul, he has the skill in trickery to surprise more powerful foes with the unexpected in some way. Stealth and obscuring himself was only good for one thing against Spidey, to make it so he can do things unobserved. That is a weakness Peter has. He doesn't know exactly what he's sensing. He has to figure it out. And Batman? He carries alot of equipment on his belt because he doesn't know what's going to happen that night, so he's got a little of everything, without getting too specific on the anti-super-guy stuff. Even unprepared, all of his talents, equipment, knowledge, and skills can be used to tackle a superior foe.
Except one little thing, by the time Batman fought Spidy at hand to hand he lost, no matter what martial arts you use, getting hit by a person who can lift 10 tons is gonna do some serious damage and to add Spidy fought and won against Marvel's top martial artist who can kick Batman's ass so Bat's martial arts isn't going to work, as for traps and smoke screens do you know how many people tried to do that crap hell Kraven is a master at it. As for the Spidersense the spidersense allows Peter guide himself away from weapons and disguesed enemies and while he isn't as stealthy as say Batman he can even surprise Black Cat of all people. Also I find that you don't give spiderman's observational and trickery enough credit, the dude fight people like Rhino, Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Sandman, Kraven and Mysterio and won countless times, while not at the level of Batman Spidy is no slouch when it comes to strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man%27s_powers_and_equipment#Spider-sense
 

Elvis Starburst

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Ahah, I had a feeling this would devolve into "X doesn't work for these reasons!" and become a battle between users. Maybe best take the debate into PM you two?

Honestly, I never was super into the whole Death Battle thing. My reasoning is that despite all of the data they find and compile, nothing is stopping the creators of the battle to be able to pull something out of their ass, or do something to tip the scales when it shouldn't happen. It creates a feeling of bias, or at least a slant in how the battles would really play out.

Out of the few I watched, I kinda liked the Starscream vs Rainbow Dash one just for the pure absurdity of it all
 

FalloutJack

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PapaGreg096 said:
Bats can, and has, taken solid hits from super-strong foes. He can survive a planned hit. In fact, the plan made it necessary. And really, I know that Spider-Man has his own personal fighting style and that his senses allow him to plan with that and his abilities, but the idea is that he has more work to do on that front for what is considered by many to be a master at tactics and strategy, a man considered so dangerous by all while being so weak by comparison. Still, you asked for a scenario that worked. I provided a believable enough one, because it's not like Peter has never been tricked by anyone. Poor guy's still human, after all (unless you count mutations).

Elvis Starburst said:
Ahah, I had a feeling this would devolve into "X doesn't work for these reasons!" and become a battle between users. Maybe best take the debate into PM you two?
Considering the topic is Death Battle and that we're discussing a Death Battle, I think we're on-topic. I've had discussion like this in the vein of Anime Fight Club. The idea is to make the merits and deeds known more than simple back-and-forth. And of course, any back-and-forthing should be an actual point of interest, or even funny.
 

PapaGreg096

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FalloutJack said:
PapaGreg096 said:
Bats can, and has, taken solid hits from super-strong foes. He can survive a planned hit. In fact, the plan made it necessary. And really, I know that Spider-Man has his own personal fighting style and that his senses allow him to plan with that and his abilities, but the idea is that he has more work to do on that front for what is considered by many to be a master at tactics and strategy, a man considered so dangerous by all while being so weak by comparison. Still, you asked for a scenario that worked. I provided a believable enough one, because it's not like Peter has never been tricked by anyone. Poor guy's still human, after all (unless you count mutations).
If you are referring to Bats rogues gallery then Spidy is stronger than all of them and while again Batman is a master at tactics and strategy Spidy is no slouch in those departments the dude tends to outsmart master illusionist, hunters, Brilliant inventers, Criminal masterminds, and even master strategist so the fact Batman is a master of tactics and strategy won't do much to Spidy because while not a master at it he is pretty damn adept and while Peter can be tricked its gonna have to more than sleight of hand and smoke bombs to trick him also Batman has been tricked multiple of times because hes human to hell hes been tricked by his own wards a few times.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Elvis Starburst said:
Ahah, I had a feeling this would devolve into "X doesn't work for these reasons!" and become a battle between users. Maybe best take the debate into PM you two?

Honestly, I never was super into the whole Death Battle thing. My reasoning is that despite all of the data they find and compile, nothing is stopping the creators of the battle to be able to pull something out of their ass, or do something to tip the scales when it shouldn't happen. It creates a feeling of bias, or at least a slant in how the battles would really play out.

Out of the few I watched, I kinda liked the Starscream vs Rainbow Dash one just for the pure absurdity of it all
And even than it was obvious they were gonna make the Pony win because the new MLP was at the peak of its popularity at that time so of course they were gonna make th Pony win.

Just like how I think Tracer is gonna win because Overwatch is the flavor of the month.
 

Fappy

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Yeah, the current season has been pretty boring so far. Uninteresting match ups combined with poorer logic and more cherry picked feats of strength than in previous seasons.

Would also be nice to get a few more "even" fights. So many of the outcomes are so painfully obvious.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Fappy said:
Yeah, the current season has been pretty boring so far. Uninteresting match ups combined with poorer logic and more cherry picked feats of strength than in previous seasons.

Would also be nice to get a few more "even" fights. So many of the outcomes are so painfully obvious.
And its usually a dead giveaway who would win because when they announce the next match they reveal only one opponant and the reconizable one is the most likely indicator of being the winner.
 

Elvis Starburst

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FalloutJack said:
Considering the topic is Death Battle and that we're discussing a Death Battle, I think we're on-topic. I've had discussion like this in the vein of Anime Fight Club. The idea is to make the merits and deeds known more than simple back-and-forth. And of course, any back-and-forthing should be an actual point of interest, or even funny.
Eh, fair. I just foresaw the discussion taking over the entirety of the thread to the point that other responses would be harder to pick out. But nevermind me, ignore this crazy person~